Prospect Info: Ryan Poehling Part 3 - Back to school edition

[JianYang]

They better get Poehling to sign right after his season ends. He could easily rationalize it thinking he wouldn't lose that much money. Spend one more year in the NCAA playing with his brothers rather than spending much of next year in the AHL. Then sign with the Minnesota Wild or whoever he wants in 2020 and start his NHL career.

Or maybe I should shut up and keep my doomsday scenarios to myself!

I will answer this the same way I answered when there was worry that Evans won't sign.

If poehling wants an opportunity at center, Montreal is a pretty good option. They are still trying to define their core in that position, and he doesn't have a boatload of pro depth to get through to carve out his niche.

The picture looks infinitely better than last year when Evans was a question mark, but there is still opportunity.

 

[sampollock]

sign this dude, now....get him to laval.....asap

 

[Whitesnake]

This applies to all prospects. How is their game going to translate to the NHL level? We all make our projections, and in poehling's case, there seems to be a bigger range of projections.

Just enjoy that he is producing for now, as it is better than the alternative of not producing. It only means that he has appreciated as an asset from before the juniors started.

No idea where I said that I wasn't enjoying it. Was responding to a post wondering what the fuss was all about, as far as his offensive game is concerned. Was responding to it. ARe people just not used to posts being answered to?

Yes, I like what I see in this tournament. Doesn't happen often that Habs prospects are key players. He is for his team. Romanov is key for Russia. Personnally, I love how Ylonen looks despite not being on top of the scorers. There's something in his game that actually tells me his game will translate. Brook is doing a quite fine job. Olofsson doesn't have it easy being moved to D and not looking like he has any kind of role in his team and Primeau well, like all young goalies, ups and downs. But I like how he handles himself. Suzuki....well....again, it all comes down to who he will be paired with and if he'll be more dynamic as his career progresses.

'Cause as far as applying to all prospects....actually it's not true. Tons of high scoring players are chosen past the 3rd, 4th and then some rounds. Why? 'Cause actually scouts don't think their game will translate and/or they think that prospect has probably reached his ceiling or close to it already.

Kyle Chipchura was scoring in juniors. Before he got hurt, Timmins had already penciled him as a very good 3rd line C. Why do you think? 'Cause it was how about trying to know how he'd translate. He didn't just look at his stats and penciled him as a top 6 player because of it....

By the way, we have a WJC thread. So yep, I agree that we should just stick with our evaluation of our players in that WJC as far as what they are doing in that tournament only. But in the prospect thread? Not sure why we can'T push the analysis a little further....

 

[JianYang]

No idea where I said that I wasn't enjoying it. Was responding to a post wondering what the fuss was all about, as far as his offensive game is concerned. Was responding to it. ARe people just not used to posts being answered to?

Yes, I like what I see in this tournament. Doesn't happen often that Habs prospects are key players. He is for his team. Romanov is key for Russia. Personnally, I love how Ylonen looks despite not being on top of the scorers. There's something in his game that actually tells me his game will translate. Brook is doing a quite fine job. Olofsson doesn't have it easy being moved to D and not looking like he has any kind of role in his team and Primeau well, like all young goalies, ups and downs. But I like how he handles himself. Suzuki....well....again, it all comes down to who he will be paired with and if he'll be more dynamic as his career progresses.

'Cause as far as applying to all prospects....actually it's not true. Tons of high scoring players are chosen past the 3rd, 4th and then some rounds. Why? 'Cause actually scouts don't think their game will translate and/or they think that prospect has probably reached his ceiling or close to it already.

Kyle Chipchura was scoring in juniors. Before he got hurt, Timmins had already penciled him as a very good 3rd line C. Why do you think? 'Cause it was how about trying to know how he'd translate. He didn't just look at his stats and penciled him as a top 6 player because of it....

By the way, we have a WJC thread. So yep, I agree that we should just stick with our evaluation of our players in that WJC as far as what they are doing in that tournament only. But in the prospect thread? Not sure why we can'T push the analysis a little further....

It seems like you have gone off on another tangent here, but back to the original discussion, I'm glad you are having fun watching him play.

As I said before, it's a very obvious fact that we need to try and figure out how a prospect's game could translate to the NHL.

For me, I have never really seen him as a big producer in the NHL, but I still think you can play an important role without being a highly producing center.

Now, his performance in this tournament has been an enjoyable bonus so far.

 

[Maliki2]

Looks like a true superstar.....can't wait until he is here with Suzuki! We have some amazing prospects! Team will get faster!

 

[Redux91]

Just happy he's doing well

Good for him seriously

And good for us, the fans

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

This thread is cringe worthy . Too many people irrationally defending their long held personal bias on the topic. I have felt that his offensive production would greatly increase with better linemates. He is a cerebral player who is at his best when his linemates are dangerous enough to draw enough attention to open lanes for Ryan to exploit. He plays with mediocre linemates and plays reduced minutes on a deep St. Cloud team which is hardly conducive to eye popping stats. Then factor in the tiny sample size that these mindless stat watchers draw their ridiculous conclusions from and realize how misleading numbers can be. In my opinion his production is very translatable to the pro game and perhaps more so than some of these internet darlings playing in lesser leagues/ with better linemates/ with more ice time. Many of these players numbers are predicated on methods that don't work in the NHL. In Poehling’s case that is not a concern as he already plays a pro game and is already sacrificing offensive stats for a complete 200 ft game. He played very well at last year's WJC but the narrative quickly turned against him as he didn't have the stats to satisfy the mob. It would make for far more engaging discussion if these stat worshipers would yank their empty heads out of the box scores and into arenas to actually understand cause and effect as it pertains to the development of plays and results on the ice. Then apply critical thinking to transfer these findings from junior to pro.
I am not saying that Poehling is guaranteed to become a substantial offensive asset at the NHL level but that many of you are processing the provided data incorrectly.

 

[Just Linda]

This summer I wrote an article detailing why expecting Mittlestatd to be a 2c this year was a bad idea and how Mittlestatd was on the same tier as Poehling. I recieved nothing but hate for it because people saw Mittlestatd as a top 5 prospect and Poehling as having no offense. I wonder how many of those people have changed their tune now.

 

[Scriptor]

This summer I wrote an article detailing why expecting Mittlestatd to be a 2c this year was a bad idea and how Mittlestatd was on the same tier as Poehling. I recieved nothing but hate for it because people saw Mittlestatd as a top 5 prospect and Poehling as having no offense. I wonder how many of those people have changed their tune now.

2...

...out of 627,212.

 

[Just Linda]

2...

...out of 627,212.

I dunno, I hear a lot of Buffalo fans overreacting and hating on Mittlestatd pretty hard

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

This thread is cringe worthy . Too many people irrationally defending their long held personal bias on the topic. I have felt that his offensive production would greatly increase with better linemates. He is a cerebral player who is at his best when his linemates are dangerous enough to draw enough attention to open lanes for Ryan to exploit. He plays with mediocre linemates and plays reduced minutes on a deep St. Cloud team which is hardly conducive to eye popping stats. Then factor in the tiny sample size that these mindless stat watchers draw their ridiculous conclusions from and realize how misleading numbers can be. In my opinion his production is very translatable to the pro game and perhaps more so than some of these internet darlings playing in lesser leagues/ with better linemates/ with more ice time. Many of these players numbers are predicated on methods that don't work in the NHL. In Poehling’s case that is not a concern as he already plays a pro game and is already sacrificing offensive stats for a complete 200 ft game. He played very well at last year's WJC but the narrative quickly turned against him as he didn't have the stats to satisfy the mob. It would make for far more engaging discussion if these stat worshipers would yank their empty heads out of the box scores and into arenas to actually understand cause and effect as it pertains to the development of plays and results on the ice. Then apply critical thinking to transfer these findings from junior to pro.
I am not saying that Poehling is guaranteed to become a substantial offensive asset at the NHL level but that many of you are processing the provided data incorrectly.

Didn't know about much of that. That's really interesting.

 

[Prettyisland]

Thrives in systematic hockey, his offense comes from not overwhelming talent but good skating and a keen understanding of the flow of a play . Looking like a julien dream player

 

[Whitesnake]

This thread is cringe worthy . Too many people irrationally defending their long held personal bias on the topic. I have felt that his offensive production would greatly increase with better linemates. He is a cerebral player who is at his best when his linemates are dangerous enough to draw enough attention to open lanes for Ryan to exploit. He plays with mediocre linemates and plays reduced minutes on a deep St. Cloud team which is hardly conducive to eye popping stats. Then factor in the tiny sample size that these mindless stat watchers draw their ridiculous conclusions from and realize how misleading numbers can be. In my opinion his production is very translatable to the pro game and perhaps more so than some of these internet darlings playing in lesser leagues/ with better linemates/ with more ice time. Many of these players numbers are predicated on methods that don't work in the NHL. In Poehling’s case that is not a concern as he already plays a pro game and is already sacrificing offensive stats for a complete 200 ft game. He played very well at last year's WJC but the narrative quickly turned against him as he didn't have the stats to satisfy the mob. It would make for far more engaging discussion if these stat worshipers would yank their empty heads out of the box scores and into arenas to actually understand cause and effect as it pertains to the development of plays and results on the ice. Then apply critical thinking to transfer these findings from junior to pro.
I am not saying that Poehling is guaranteed to become a substantial offensive asset at the NHL level but that many of you are processing the provided data incorrectly.

Long held personal bias on the topic....obviously you don't talk about me, 'cause if your point is about what I thought a long time ago about Poehling from the day he was drafted to today...if it didin'T change that much, wouldn't you say it's called being consequent? But then, while I was mostly meh about his pick when it happened...I also said this immediately after....

Prospect Info: - 25th Ryan Poehling
GDT: - Draft Day Thread II

AS far as the stats are concerned.....well I'm stunned that you just don't want to see what the norm is. Players that don't have great stats will most likely not pan out. I mean, guys with great stats don't always pan out, can you imagine what guys with ordinairy stats will do? Not saying Poehling has ordinairy total stats, but you do wish his goal totals to be better. And he is a 3rd year NCAA guy. It's the norm that high picks playing their 3rd year are PPG or close to it. He's not crushing it. Now.....one of the reasons you are giving is the mediocre linemates he plays in.....with reduced minutes on a deep St.Cloud team....so...which is it? Is it mediocre? Or is it deep? Or is this a mediore deep team that just happened to be first in their conference.....with the most goals for scored in that conference? And not only that but that team has the same number of wins percentage within the conference than they have when you add other teams from other conferences as well. St. Cloud is actually the 2nd team in the entire NCAA in Percentage of goals vs games....is that SOLELY the work of our Poehling? I mean, he is playing largely with Robbie Jackson on his wing....a very good NCAA vet. And Lizotte and Brodzinski or Walker close to PPG for each. So those guys aren't sexy names....but that just doesn't matter in this kind of level. You play with senior who's ceiling is just the NCAA and you will get very good stats, again, see Pacioretty with Porter in Michigan. Again, not saying, and NEVER saying Poehling is a product of Jackson. Far from it. Poehling does lead the offense but it's a very good duo, they work well together. And Poehling is not a freshman....he is a junior, and a talented one.

So when I talk about stats, I do not SOLELY rely on those to make an argument. Just saying that if people want to go with FACTS, well you do go with stats to find facts. But then, yes, an analysis of a player, if done properly and seriously, has to go with watching the guy. And never about watching youtube moments, or just the goals. But the entire game. And I do that. Yet....it just is my opinion. Not sure why people are mad for people having a different opinion than them. What is my opinion again? Poehling is right now a great 2-way player that improves every year in his overall game. That he will need to get better reads on offense if he wants to improve his goal totals. And that will still need to improve if he wants to be a top 6 player at the NHL level. People want to pretend that this then means that I'm negatively bias, I hate the guy and predict he'd be a bust....go ahead....but those people are just selective readers....at best.

 

[Belial]

This guy is already NHL ready IMO. He could step in an contribute tomorrow morning...

 

[Just Linda]

This guy is already NHL ready IMO. He could step in an contribute tomorrow morning...

I disagree.

We don't play tomorrow morning. He'd have to wait until the evening.

 

[Belial]

I disagree.

We don't play tomorrow morning. He'd have to wait until the evening.

He would kill it during the morning skate.

 

[The Great Weal]

So the earliest we can sign him so that he is expansion draft exempt is July 1 right?

 

[Scriptor]

I disagree.

We don't play tomorrow morning. He'd have to wait until the evening.

Nice.

Actually, I'm also sure he could step in and contribute tomorrow morning (at practice ), but I don't know in which capacity yet. I wouldn't make him graduate this season unless it was the only way to get him to sign with MON. However, I don't see any conflict in that regard brewing on the horizon. The reason I wouldn't make him graduate this season is that he would then need to be protected for the expansion draft, the way Kotkaniemi will need to be protected and the way both Mete and Juulsen will need to be protected.

Right now, your three Ds to protect are Weber, Mete and Juulsen. Petry will be an UFA which I would trade before the expansion draft (Now, trade deadline, offseason, as a rental in the final year of his current contract, whichever gets me the best return), but we can be patient and wait for the best return.

If we landed Brodie for Petry, for example, I'd protect Weber, Brodie (who we would need to re-sign after next season) and one of Mete or Juulsen (likely Juulsen). Thankfully, neither Brook nor Romanov will need to be protected.

Then, we have to protect Price because of the NMC, unless we are willing to lose him for absolutely nothing and he agrees to waive his NMC like Fleury did.

Up front, that leaves us 7 players to protect.

1) Kotkaniemi, for sure.
2) Domi, for sure.
3) Drouin, for sure.
4) Gallagher, for sure.
5) Tatar, for sure.

That leaves two spots to choose between Danault, Lehkonen, Shaw and Byron. Why add Poehling to that mix and risk losing someone else for him by making him graduate to finish out this season to nowhere? Part of me couldn't care less if we lose Shaw and I would try to trade him before the expansion draft rolls around anyhow, but, surely, we'd want to protect at least two out of Danault, Lehkonen and Byron. I'd also trade one of Lehkonen or Byron in two more years rather than lose them for nothing.

Otherwise, Danault would be a rental and he might be valuable at the trade deadline in two more years, just prior to the expansion draft.

The only trouble is that teams will be looking to pass off players that need to be protected at the expansion draft in trades two years from now.

As we get closer to the draft, trades will have more and more strings attached, IMO.

 

[Scriptor]

So the earliest we can sign him so that he is expansion draft exempt is July 1 right?

I think that's right. Unless there is a conflict regarding him signing in MON and burning one year off his ELC is the only way to get him to put ink to paper, I would wait until July 1st to sign him.

IMO, signing him before will mean needing to make a choice between Danault, Lehkonen, Byron and Shaw for the final protection spot and risk losing one of the three others, unless we lose one of Mete or Juulsen instead, depending on who we chose to protect.

 

[sandviper]

That is unless one of the conditions of him signing is that we sign him in-season (thus burn a year off his ELC) like we did with Lindgren.

 

[Just Linda]

He would kill it during the morning skate.

I don't know about that. It's getting kind of late for him to catch a flight. He'd probably be pretty exhausted :p

 

[Belial]

I don't know about that. It's getting kind of late for him to catch a flight. He'd probably be pretty exhausted :p

Exhausted of killing it.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

https://www.tsn.ca/poehling-the-mvp-so-far-at-world-juniors-1.1234514

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

This guy is already NHL ready IMO. He could step in an contribute tomorrow morning...

Ya I’ve been saying this. He’s going to be a center for us next season I imagine.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

Ya I’ve been saying this. He’s going to be a center for us next season I imagine.

I saw in the news somewhere recently that Poehling had reconsidered leaving college at the end of this season and might stay another year. Really hope he doesn't pull a Vesey.