Eklund Rumor: Ryan O'Reilly+ for Noah Hanifin

[Jame]

No, I'm just using P/60 because it's available on Natural Stat Trick which is the website I mainly use so don't need to do anything but grab the numbers.

Still, your point about penalizing ROR for more ES minutes doesn't hold water though. Their 5v5 PPG over that stretch is the same. It's the PP where ROR is superior, which is what I said earlier. Part of that is because ROR is better on the PP and part of it is because he gets an extra min/game on the PP.

I think we are splitting hairs though. I agree with you ROR is better offensively, primarily driven by PP.

Yes... it's the portion of ice time that highlights the offensive ability that separates them....

I think it was you, maybe another cane fan... that alluded to the addition of ROR and giving him a more offensive #1 center role, while Staal maintained the matchup role, allowing your young centers to take on easier matchup/3rd line roles.... would be a pretty sweet set up.

I don't get the argument that "we already have Staal for the role" when RORs offense would increase rather significantly in an offensively tilted role.

But I guess the majority believe you need to hold out for a top 15 center... because those totally become available often

 

[Jame]

ROR has more PP points than Staal" and "ROR is better offensively than Staal" are two different things, no?

They are correlated.

Over the last 5 years:
.76 vs .56

It's a big difference, regardless of what it's driven by.

If the deal were ROR + cap dump for Rask + futures, futures being Bean or Fleury (1 or 2 d prospect) + one of Foegele, Wallmark or Zykov (2-4 forward prospect, Foegele has great wheels, Zykov, size), then I'd be down, but I doubt the Sabres are. Hanifin is a no-go at this point. Or ROR for Faulk + 2nd + McKweon

This Sabres fan isnt down with trading ROR for anything short of a Dougie Hamilton level defensemen (skill, age, and term all included).

You just can't replace what ROR brings.

Trading ROR for packages of futures or quantity is franchise suicide, its Mike Milbury level destructive.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

They are correlated.

Over the last 5 years:
.76 vs .56

It's a big difference, regardless of what it's driven by.

Not really.

If ROR didn't play the PP at all at because reasons, then he would have less points. Is it then fair to say that Staal is better than ROR? No. You need to look at said reasons.

Of course, I don't mind saying ROR is better offensively than Staal, you just don't think they're too very different players.

This Sabres fan isnt down with trading ROR for anything short of a Dougie Hamilton level defensemen (skill, age, and term all included).

So-o-o....Justin Faulk?

Trading ROR for packages of futures or quantity is franchise suicide, its Mike Milbury level destructive.

That's an extreme take.

 

[rent free]

But... he's not

Toews 10.5
Kopitar 10.0
Johansen 8.0

those guys are paid like #1's as well. thats not helping you point

 

[Jame]

Not really.

If ROR didn't play the PP at all at because reasons, then he would have less points. Is it then fair to say that Staal is better than ROR? No. You need to look at said reasons.

Of course, I don't mind saying ROR is better offensively than Staal, you just don't think they're too very different players.

What's the word for creating a hypothetical that makes no sense?

So-o-o....Justin Faulk?

Only 2 years remaining (fails the term prerequisite)

I value what Slavin bring as top pair defensemen, much more than what Faulk brings. Another way to put this, in similar terms to Canes fans preachin Staal's role..... we have Ristolainen in place to fulfill what Faulk would bring...we NEED what Pesce-Slavin bring, in terms of matchup, dzone start, heavy lifting minutes to unleash Ristolainen.

Does Carolina recognize Pesce-Slavin as the top pair?

That's an extreme take.

Not really. I've justified RORs value to be in the same ballpark as Toews. You don't make your franchise better trading that type of player.

 

[Jame]

those guys are paid like #1's as well. thats not helping you point

goal posts... [whoosh]... there they go

 

[GoldiFox]

What's the word for creating a hypothetical that makes no sense?




Only 2 years remaining (fails the term prerequisite)

I value what Slavin bring as top pair defensemen, much more than what Faulk brings. Another way to put this, in similar terms to Canes fans preachin Staal's role..... we have Ristolainen in place to fulfill what Faulk would bring...we NEED what Pesce-Slavin bring, in terms of matchup, dzone start, heavy lifting minutes to unleash Ristolainen.

Does Carolina recognize Pesce-Slavin as the top pair?





Not really. I've justified RORs value to be in the same ballpark as Toews. You don't make your franchise better trading that type of player.

That is a decent point.

Canes won't give up value for ROR because they already have a very similar player in Staal.
Sabres won't give up value for Faulk because they already have a very similar player in Ristolainen.

Thread?

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

What's the word for creating a hypothetical that makes no sense?

What is it called when you avoid the argument?

Only 2 years remaining (fails the term prerequisite)

I value what Slavin bring as top pair defensemen, much more than what Faulk brings. Another way to put this, in similar terms to Canes fans preachin Staal's role..... we have Ristolainen in place to fulfill what Faulk would bring...we NEED what Pesce-Slavin bring, in terms of matchup, dzone start, heavy lifting minutes to unleash Ristolainen.

Does Carolina recognize Pesce-Slavin as the top pair?

ROR + for Pesce works.

Not really. I've justified RORs value to be in the same ballpark as Toews. You don't make your franchise better trading that type of player.

Your comparison used Mike Milbery, considered to be one of the most, if not the most, incompetent general managers in the history of the NHL.

Yes, I'm fine in saying that this is an extreme take.

 

[Jame]

What is it called when you avoid the argument?

It's called, not being duped in to a lazy rhetorical device

ROR + for Pesce works.

I'm sure it would for you.
Pass

Your comparison used Mike Milbery, considered to be one of the most, if not the most, incompetent general managers in the history of the NHL.

Yes, I'm fine in saying that this is an extreme take.

Yes. Incompetent. That's what trading ROR would be.

ROR types are a must have ingredient in building a playoff contending roster.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Yes... it's the portion of ice time that highlights the offensive ability that separates them....

I think it was you, maybe another cane fan... that alluded to the addition of ROR and giving him a more offensive #1 center role, while Staal maintained the matchup role, allowing your young centers to take on easier matchup/3rd line roles.... would be a pretty sweet set up.

I don't get the argument that "we already have Staal for the role" when RORs offense would increase rather significantly in an offensively tilted role.

Yeah, that was me and I'm with you on that. I've been saying all along ROR would be a good fit on the Canes. ROR in an offensive role, but still can take any tough matchup. Staal to take the tough matchups like he does today. Necas (if ready) in a more sheltered role. I'd be fine with that. I just think the cost to get him would be too much.

 

[Jame]

That is a decent point.

Canes won't give up value for ROR because they already have a very similar player in Staal.
Sabres won't give up value for Faulk because they already have a very similar player in Ristolainen.

Thread?

Sure... Faulk has 2 years remaining, while Risto has 5
And Staal has 5 more years during his age 30 - 34 season
ROR has 5 years remaining during his age 27 - 31 seasons.

I think we might agree on who is in better shape standing pat on these 4.

 

[Jame]

Yeah, that was me and I'm with you on that. I've been saying all along ROR would be a good fit on the Canes. ROR in an offensive role, but still can take any tough matchup. Staal to take the tough matchups like he does today. Necas (if ready) in a more sheltered role. I'd be fine with that. I just think the cost to get him would be too much.

Agreed.

 

[DRW204]

posted this in the other ROR thread

Is Zadorov <> Pesce?

the trade 2 years ago was ROR+McGinn for JT Compher, Grigorenko, Zadorov and 2nd rounder. Is his value more or less the same as it was as he was traded (i think i saw one BUF fan say it is higher, one say it is equal)

If Pesce <> Zads, CAR can easily surpass a package of Compher/Grigs/2nd IMO with a mix of futures/current roster players. This is dependent if BUF is truly shopping him and CAR truly wants to acquire him. He might be the closest thing to a 1C that is readily available (other than Tavares as UFA of course).

just my 2 cents as a neutral reader.

 

[The Macho King]

An Eklund rumor hits six pages? C'mon son.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

It's called, not being duped in to a lazy rhetorical device

You're the one who declared that my argument made no sense, rather than actually discussing whether or not it makes a difference if pp points and es points should be differentiated.

If you want to support your argument, do so rather than declaring the opponent makes no sense without evidence.

I'm sure it would for you.
Pass

lol.

Yes. Incompetent. That's what trading ROR would be.

ROR types are a must have ingredient in building a playoff contending roster.

My problem isn't your dismissal if trading ROR for what I offered, my problem is declaring that the potential deal offered for ROR- Rask + bean + zykov- is comparable to Mike Milbury.

There's a difference between, "Sabres aren't interested" and "That's so bad, it's comparable to Mike Milbury ". Since you provided zero connection between that deal and Milbury, it seems less that you have a true example and more that you just wanted the worst example you could think, neglecting to think, "Does this metaphor ACTUALLY work?"

 

[Stickpucker]

Fill in the blanks:

ROR + Lehner + _____ for Pesce + Rask + Darling + ____

Do the same without Darling being involved

 

[Ctrain2k]

It is rather fitting that the Eklund tag is the color of green diarrhea poo. It's what he flings to the walls, hoping one sticks.

This is the funniest thing I’ve seen today, made my day!

 

[steveat]

I have to ask everyone here...

IF I create a hockey blog..make youtube videos and podcasts etc...and tweet a "rumour" that the Blues are offering 7 firsts + 2 top 3s + 2 top 6s + 2A prospects....for McDavid

That I would have so many people writing about it and discussing it? Like, would it get me enough traffic to make a living from?

no joke..I am gonna do it. FFS.. I need money..