Ryan Nugent-Hopkins

[Replacement*]

Have you seen the kids on ice save%? Its terrible, that at least accounts for a good chunk of those goals against stats your citing.

It accounts for a portion of it. But this hasn't been the same defensively responsible play we were starting to see from RNH last season. As Eakins states, and he's right in this much, is some junk crept into players games for whatever reason.

Please note as well that I very specifically stated that RNH GA Stats were worst in league, not a suggestion that he in anyway is worst in league. Just that the GA stats are. I did choose my words carefully in that.

 

[McOilers97]

That contract is going to be look worst and worst. I think Eberle could be moved for a more useful piece. Eberle is an asset for teams but I can't imagine a team willing to trade for that contract.

I sure hope that they don't let his value keep on declining before they even consider trading him. Sort of like what happened with Hemsky (although not due to injuries), continued declines in Eberle's production could make him nearly untradeable, at least for anything valuable. As time goes on it will become more and more known league-wide that 76 points was a mirage.

I love his skill-set, but hate his game.

 

[stickguy]

No, that would have been a terrible pick.

Yah, who wants a scoring power forward, captain of the first place team in the league!!

 

[Replacement*]

You rarely can count on Gagner doing anything but gliding on the back check defensively. Gagner, Eberle, and Yakupov are all far worse than RNH defensively. If I had my way I'd ship at least Gagner and Hemsky out of here and then the other two would be on probation of sorts, either they start buying in or they could be dealt as well.

yikes

Rebuild mach2?

RNH is creating a LOT more than he was last season but his linemates aren't cashing those chances in. I'd also like to know why Eakins is using RNH and/or Gagner as our shut down centers when we signed Gordon for that exact role?

Eakins is an odd monkey.

Do you remember the night where he played Nuge over 26mins and Gordon 12. Of course we lost. I quote that one regularly.

Its as if Eakins even forgets about bench sometimes. By his own admission he gets keyed into throwing the topline out every 2nd shift. Thats just insane for forwards. Way too much toi and too little recovery time afforded.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

yikes

Rebuild mach2?




Eakins is an odd monkey.

Do you remember the night where he played Nuge over 26mins and Gordon 12. Of course we lost. I quote that one regularly.

Its as if Eakins even forgets about bench sometimes. By his own admission he gets keyed into throwing the topline out every 2nd shift. Thats just insane for forwards. Way too much toi and too little recovery time afforded.

http://oilers.nhl.com/club/player.htm?id=8476454&season=20132014&view=gamelog

http://oilers.nhl.com/gamecenter/en/recap?id=2013020035

You mean this game?

 

[Bryanbryoil]

yikes

Rebuild mach2?




Eakins is an odd monkey.

Do you remember the night where he played Nuge over 26mins and Gordon 12. Of course we lost. I quote that one regularly.

Its as if Eakins even forgets about bench sometimes. By his own admission he gets keyed into throwing the topline out every 2nd shift. Thats just insane for forwards. Way too much toi and too little recovery time afforded.

They need to buy in already or they'll always be highly skilled losers. And yes I really wonder why Gordon doesn't get more of a shutdown role. I'm not sure why Eakins doesn't use Gordon more especially when we are getting torched in certain match-ups.

 

[AlowlyMcOilersfan]

He consistently faces off against the best lines in the NHL. He skates hard to come back. He uses positioning and effort to strip pucks from opposing forwards. He's fairly decent on the cycle, and has great hands, especially on the rush.

Sometimes, he gets outmatched, but he's just one of those guys who knows what he has to do on the ice to be successful.

His comparisons to 99 are silly, but he does have very good hockey sense and soft hands. I'd like to see him shoot a little more off the rush. He actually has a quick release and can get it up high.

With all the minutes he's getting, it's like he was pushed into a lake and told to learn how to swim.

 

[killercookie]

Should've picked Landeskog.

Agree 100%. The Oilers will never win with the team they have. RNH will always be a little boy playing against men and that is why we will never win. They need to trade 3 of little boys for big tough men that have heart and sand paper!!

 

[OnTheBrink]

People on this site blow my mind, yea lets give up on a 20 year old center with unreal vision and good defensive instincts, he needs to fill out and strengthen up, he will be fine I'm the least worried about him on this team. Everyone is getting a little wonky on here and forget the core is an average age of 21.5 how the hell are they supposed to compete with the vets of LA, San Jose, Ana, Chi. Give your Fu$$$$$& head a shake people, problem is Managment has done a Sh&& job surrounding the young core with good veteran leadership and our coaching staff throws them to the wolves all the time. Gordon's line should be the one playing against the teams I mention top line not RNH line. In 2-3 years when he is more ready he can start taking that role over, hell tampa was trying to shelter Stamkos defensively until last season.

 

[McJadeddog]

yikes

Rebuild mach2?




Eakins is an odd monkey.

Do you remember the night where he played Nuge over 26mins and Gordon 12. Of course we lost. I quote that one regularly.

Its as if Eakins even forgets about bench sometimes. By his own admission he gets keyed into throwing the topline out every 2nd shift. Thats just insane for forwards. Way too much toi and too little recovery time afforded.

this is an understatement... the fact that he doesn't seem to really believe in line-matching is CRAZY... not "strange", not "odd".... flat out CRAZY

 

[McJadeddog]

Agree 100%. The Oilers will never win with the team they have. RNH will always be a little boy playing against men and that is why we will never win. They need to trade 3 of little boys for big tough men that have heart and sand paper!!

please continue to only post once every few months, you'd be doing the board a favor

 

[CorpseFX]

Datsyuk was pretty sick when he was 20 (not in the league) and at age 23 he put up only 35 points on a stacked team. what a loser.

/time

 

[Hemsky4PM]

RNH and Hall are the only two guys on the team I have no doubt about when it comes to their trajectory towards being elite players. Hall in many respects is already at that level.

RNH is about 10 pounds and a lot of strength away from his prime. It's such a shame that this wash of a year is making fans question one of our top two players.

 

[Roof Daddy]

Datsyuk was pretty sick when he was 20 (not in the league) and at age 23 he put up only 35 points on a stacked team. what a loser.

/time

I feel the same way about The Nuge's potential as well. The kid's numbers are suffering this year, but he is the only one of the young guns who plays consistently physical (despite his slender frame). Taylor Hall should be a physical force, yet we only see it when he gets mad. Nuge at least tries to move people off the puck all the time, just has the misfortune of playing against guys like Thornton/Kopitar/Getzlaf, etc. There are ways to separate those guys from the puck, but much like Datsyuk, you don't gain that knowledge overnight.

He's had some defensive miscues, getting beat to the front of the net, but this whole team is a mess and he is the last one I'd pin it on.

 

[Replacement*]

Datsyuk was pretty sick when he was 20 (not in the league) and at age 23 he put up only 35 points on a stacked team. what a loser.

/time

Not really a comparable. Number 1 draftpicks typically rise to the occasion faster than lower picks due to their draft position being indicative of being the BPA at that time and moment. So much quicker acclimatization is expected and of course.

Datsyuk is the best example of a development player, a late bloomer, who rose to prominence long after the age of 18. Clearly with the respective players RNH was far superior to Datsyuk at age 18.

But why make the comparison? Such comparisons are meaningless and have no predictive value, no validity, and don't mean anything.

All it really states is that in player development anything can occur. But that holds that even people like Gilbert Brule *could* develop into NHL players. But it would be equally ridiculous for me to compare RNH to Brule, than you citing Datsyuk.

 

[McJadeddog]

Not really a comparable. Number 1 draftpicks typically rise to the occasion faster than lower picks due to their draft position being indicative of being the BPA at that time and moment. So much quicker acclimatization is expected and of course.

Datsyuk is the best example of a development player, a late bloomer, who rose to prominence long after the age of 18. Clearly with the respective players RNH was far superior to Datsyuk at age 18.

But why make the comparison? Such comparisons are meaningless and have no predictive value, no validity, and don't mean anything.

All it really states is that in player development anything can occur. But that holds that even people like Gilbert Brule *could* develop into NHL players. But it would be equally ridiculous for me to compare RNH to Brule, than you citing Datsyuk.

except that datsyuk and RNH play the game very similarly while brule and RNH don't play anything alike... RNH and datsyuk is actually one of the few examples where i agree with comparing players..... its never fair to the younger player, just like its not fair to RNH in this example, but as far as style of play, position, size, stick work and positioning on the ice, the two players really are good comparisons for one another

its doubtful that RNH is ever as good as datsyuk (who is a first-ballot hall of famer for sure), but that doesn't mean the style comparison isn't valuable when discussing RNH... in fact its very valuable

comparing brule to RNH does what exactly?

 

[GMofOilers]

Not really a comparable. Number 1 draftpicks typically rise to the occasion faster than lower picks due to their draft position being indicative of being the BPA at that time and moment. So much quicker acclimatization is expected and of course.

Datsyuk is the best example of a development player, a late bloomer, who rose to prominence long after the age of 18. Clearly with the respective players RNH was far superior to Datsyuk at age 18.

But why make the comparison? Such comparisons are meaningless and have no predictive value, no validity, and don't mean anything.

All it really states is that in player development anything can occur. But that holds that even people like Gilbert Brule *could* develop into NHL players. But it would be equally ridiculous for me to compare RNH to Brule, than you citing Datsyuk.

Brule seriously? You ever read how much messed up of a situation he was in? He didnt make it due to talent, he didnt make it due to his situation.

 

[Replacement*]

People on this site blow my mind, yea lets give up on a 20 year old center with unreal vision and good defensive instincts, he needs to fill out and strengthen up, he will be fine I'm the least worried about him on this team. Everyone is getting a little wonky on here and forget the core is an average age of 21.5 how the hell are they supposed to compete with the vets of LA, San Jose, Ana, Chi. Give your Fu$$$$$& head a shake people, problem is Managment has done a Sh&& job surrounding the young core with good veteran leadership and our coaching staff throws them to the wolves all the time. Gordon's line should be the one playing against the teams I mention top line not RNH line. In 2-3 years when he is more ready he can start taking that role over, hell tampa was trying to shelter Stamkos defensively until last season.

"On the brink"?

I never know what a post like this is about. Seemingly its just an angry post. Because nobody is saying get rid of RNH. Nobody is stating get rid of RNH, the OP isn't stating in the slightest get rid of RNH. Its merely asking questions, and reasonable questions.

As far as matching my own take is that young players should get a taste of hard matchups. Just a taste, so they know what its like. But not complete immersion. But heres what happened to that with this team. We have a core group of young players here who feel as if they're gods gifts to hockey with Eberle and Hall being predominant examples of that. So when we match these guys against lesser players, or play them in OKC, they feel like gods among men in some games, go ******* collecting pts. But then **** the bed against even AHL clubs that play them hard. Theres a certain stubborn arrogance with these players that refuses to learn. That has even been said to be often uncoachable (Kreuger stated this, I'm surprised how little his take gets cited because he was dead to rights correct)

So how do you teach kids that won't learn, are too stubborn to change, and won't listen to reason?
One school of thought is you throw them in the deep end to let reality convince them that they are NOT great players. That they haven't come close yet to be great players. That in fact they get owned by great players nearly every time out.

But this is a bunch thats very slow to learn. I'm not sure how many multiple - nights it takes..

Not advocating the latter either but just explaining. But really do you do with these guys to make them learn? Especially when they see dunderhead veterans like Hemsky with a penchant for stupid hockey.

 

[Replacement*]

Brule seriously? You ever read how much messed up of a situation he was in? He didnt make it due to talent, he didnt make it due to his situation.

You missed my point. That was an intentionally ridiculous comparison. To demonstrate how ridiculous ANY such comparisons are.

Going one step forward comparisons of any kind are fraught with logical difficulty in that they DON'T invoke any predictive indicators. Comparison is largely the absence of evaluation and is often just a distortion.

I don't see the value in it. I wasn't engaging in it I was just demonstrating.

 

[Replacement*]

except that datsyuk and RNH play the game very similarly while brule and RNH don't play anything alike... RNH and datsyuk is actually one of the few examples where i agree with comparing players..... its never fair to the younger player, just like its not fair to RNH in this example, but as far as style of play, position, size, stick work and positioning on the ice, the two players really are good comparisons for one another

its doubtful that RNH is ever as good as datsyuk (who is a first-ballot hall of famer for sure), but that doesn't mean the style comparison isn't valuable when discussing RNH... in fact its very valuable

comparing brule to RNH does what exactly?

Absolutely nothing. I'm amazed people didn't get my point. ANY comparisons are inherently ridiculous because they are meaningless. They are NOT predictive indicators in any way. They are the absence of well thought out position.

Its lazy thought. "This player is like........." Is not descriptive of player, it merely summons up an illusion. It rarely means anything.

I'm just playing devils advocate on mechanisms of logic. Albeit take with large grain of salt if you want.

 

[Meanashell11]

I think people should go back and see what was being said about Stevie Y and Lecavalier back when they were 20. The Bolts almost traded him for magic beens as well. In 2000, his second year he had 25 goals and was -25 +/-. Yzerman almost was run out of Detroit. Go back and check.....

 

[McJadeddog]

You missed my point. That was an intentionally ridiculous comparison. To demonstrate how ridiculous ANY such comparisons are.

Going one step forward comparisons of any kind are fraught with logical difficulty in that they DON'T invoke any predictive indicators. Comparison is largely the absence of evaluation and is often just a distortion.

I don't see the value in it. I wasn't engaging in it I was just demonstrating.

ah okay fair enough, i didn't clue into that either

but to my original rebuttal, i agree that comparisons are 90% of the time useless.... the RNH/datsyuk one is still mostly useless, just a lot less useless than most IMO.... i actually do see a lot of similarities in their games

your earlier point about the kids seeing hemsky making the same mistakes over and over again has some merit in my mind.... yesterdays game when it was 4 on 4 and hemsky does (yet another) ridiculous drop pass at the oppositions blue line and philly goes down and scores a goal to ice the game away is a great example.... its just a terrible, terrible play, but hemsky has been making them for years now

i don't know what it will take for these kids to learn to simplify their game and play within a system... i really don't.... it seems that they are the most stubborn group of players in the history of the game at this point, lol.... but to be fair, that is usually the situation with young players that all play together.... it would be much easier if there were more veteran players like gordon on the team to show the kids how success *actually* comes in the NHL.... but we don't have enough of these players, and the ones we do have, the kids can't relate to.... we need a "star player" who plays a 200-foot game and makes simple plays, to show the kids how its done.... but sadly, those players are rather hard to come by

i have no idea what the answer is, but the one thing i DO know is that the oilers management doesn't know the answer either

worst management team in pro-sports history

 

[Replacement*]

I think people should go back and see what was being said about Stevie Y and Lecavalier back when they were 20. The Bolts almost traded him for magic beens as well. Yzerman almost was run out of Detroit. Go back and check.....

Again who is saying trade RNH? There might be the odd post but thats not what the thread is at all about or the discussion is about.

I agree with you on the Lecavalier situation. The Yzerman situation was imo much different and due to a pretty intense fanbase like this one. Just because people get upset doesn't mean they want rid of everybody. I don't (exception Eberle tbh) I just want them to learn to be better players.

 

[Replacement*]

ah okay fair enough, i didn't clue into that either

but to my original rebuttal, i agree that comparisons are 90% of the time useless.... the RNH/datsyuk one is still mostly useless, just a lot less useless than most IMO.... i actually do see a lot of similarities in their games

your earlier point about the kids seeing hemsky making the same mistakes over and over again has some merit in my mind.... yesterdays game when it was 4 on 4 and hemsky does (yet another) ridiculous drop pass at the oppositions blue line and philly goes down and scores a goal to ice the game away is a great example.... its just a terrible, terrible play, but hemsky has been making them for years now

i don't know what it will take for these kids to learn to simplify their game and play within a system... i really don't.... it seems that they are the most stubborn group of players in the history of the game at this point, lol.... but to be fair, that is usually the situation with young players that all play together.... it would be much easier if there were more veteran players like gordon on the team to show the kids how success *actually* comes in the NHL.... but we don't have enough of these players, and the ones we do have, the kids can't relate to.... we need a "star player" who plays a 200-foot game and makes simple plays, to show the kids how its done.... but sadly, those players are rather hard to come by

i have no idea what the answer is, but the one thing i DO know is that the oilers management doesn't know the answer either

worst management team in pro-sports history

yep

Hemsky always lacked hockey smarts. Never been an all round sound player. I guess thats the risk we took giving him care blanch for many years that he would emulate bad habits.

The most ridiculous play Hemsky made yesterday is when he selfishly took a shot on an odd man break instead of looking for options, he shot it wide far side thus resulting in carom and all 3 Oilers caught high leading to a 3 on 1 break the other way.

Thing is players watch this and we've seen Gagner do it, we've seen Hall do it, Yak do it. Its a cardinal sin to miss that shot. You just can't miss that shot.

Hemsky is what, 30 yrs old, and he still hasn't learned that?


edit, checked, Hemsky did indeed turn 30 in offseason. I'm sometimes amazed how much of a hockey dunderhead he has remained. He's a real skating contradiction. Somebody that had enough ability to perfect very good fundamental skating, puck handling tools, amassed exceptional rote hand eye coordinations, yet has parlayed this to very little by being a ten cent head.

There was a lol comment in pgt about hemsky never learning how to not make his brain offside..

I think we need a drawing of that one..


AS for what it takes? One of the things it specifically takes is for a talented team of upstarts to ever make the playoffs and be forced to play talented and well playing TEAMS in a playoff round. Theres nothing like a multiple set of contiguous games against a great opponent to shift and cause rethink in ones position. These young kids often deduce to "oh that was just a bad game" rather than seeing the forest for the trees. Conversely if a good club beats you 4/5 games its harder to believe it was all puck luck.

Some of the best teams in hockey, probably most, had thier honing in the playoffs, learned to be good teams in the playoffs, learned what it takes in the playoffs.

But we can't even buy a date to the prom...

 

[OnTheBrink]

"On the brink"?

I never know what a post like this is about. Seemingly its just an angry post. Because nobody is saying get rid of RNH. Nobody is stating get rid of RNH, the OP isn't stating in the slightest get rid of RNH. Its merely asking questions, and reasonable questions.

As far as matching my own take is that young players should get a taste of hard matchups. Just a taste, so they know what its like. But not complete immersion. But heres what happened to that with this team. We have a core group of young players here who feel as if they're gods gifts to hockey with Eberle and Hall being predominant examples of that. So when we match these guys against lesser players, or play them in OKC, they feel like gods among men in some games, go ******* collecting pts. But then **** the bed against even AHL clubs that play them hard. Theres a certain stubborn arrogance with these players that refuses to learn. That has even been said to be often uncoachable (Kreuger stated this, I'm surprised how little his take gets cited because he was dead to rights correct)

So how do you teach kids that won't learn, are too stubborn to change, and won't listen to reason?
One school of thought is you throw them in the deep end to let reality convince them that they are NOT great players. That they haven't come close yet to be great players. That in fact they get owned by great players nearly every time out.

But this is a bunch thats very slow to learn. I'm not sure how many multiple - nights it takes..

Not advocating the latter either but just explaining. But really do you do with these guys to make them learn? Especially when they see dunderhead veterans like Hemsky with a penchant for stupid hockey.

And on the brink has nothing to do with the oilers has to do with my name and company. Don't read into stuff so much bud.

My post somewhat was a rant and your last point about hemsky is exactly the point I was making when you surround young players with big egos with guys like hemsky, Whitney etc... What do you expect? At least Ference and Gordon are steps in the right direction, IMO.

My rant wasn't directed toward op but some of the other posts.

As far as pre Madonnas go I think that Nuge is probably down the list in that regards but that is just my opinion as I don't know the guy personally.

Don't get me wrong I have had enough of this losing BS, but what do you expect when all your impact players are under 24 and have been groomed in a losing culture. Don't think I'm giving te young guys a pass though, Eberle is now entering his prime and should be more of a leader for the young guys but he seems content not back checking and toe dragging around the ice.

I know all is Oil fans are impatient and rightfully so, but the best cure for this team unfortunately is time. RNH, Yak and even Hall are still a few years from their prime, and all of the defensemen with high upside in the system are still in juniors or AHL.

But until we get a legit starter in net this team is doomed.