News Article: "Ryan Nugent-Hopkins tired of getting Oilers coaches fired"

[Replacement*]

Agreed. I'll give the kids a bit of a clean slate cause I can understand having no drive with a **** coach and constant losing but this is their chance to show they can be consistent, no more room or time for excuses. They have every opportunity now to succeed with McLellan and an improved goalie and a real defensive system.

The key thing they have to abandon is quite simple. Facets of human laziness. Winning is good, they strive to it at times, but frankly its a lot of work..

Don't think that opinion is too flippant either. No less of a player than Mark Messier was famously quoted saying that for awhile in his start in his pro career he thought about retiring because he knew what kind of work it was going to be becoming good and contributing to a winning club. He questioned if he had enough desire. Can you imagine, Mark Messier questioning that? That just means every part of the human curve probable does question and resist roles that require all of them. Not some of them, but 100% commitment. Players on this team haven't done that yet at the NHL level.

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

The key thing they have to abandon is quite simple. Facets of human laziness. Winning is good, they strive to it at times, but frankly its a lot of work..

Don't think that opinion is too flippant either. No less of a player than Mark Messier was famously quoted saying that for awhile in his start in his pro career he thought about retiring because he knew what kind of work it was going to be becoming good and contributing to a winning club. He questioned if he had enough desire. Can you imagine, Mark Messier questioning that? That just means every part of the human curve probable does question and resist roles that require all of them. Not some of them, but 100% commitment. Players on this team haven't done that yet at the NHL level.

I think with the kids and how bad goaltending and defense was they got constantly deflated cause even when they would come out big the back end would let them down. So they stopped playing and gave up. And then the reverse happened. Goaltending and d would have a good game and the forwards would be checked out.

I think having a finally good coaching staff to motivate the guys when they are down will go along way. Humans need help sometimes, a bit of motivating and I feel like this group can help the players with that.

 

[blue_n_copper]

Krueger is a well-respected person because he is such a good speaker. Hell, he wrote a book on motivational speaking. But I vividly remember a complete lack of a system in his games and really poor line matching. He may have been a hell of a players' coach, but when it came to strategy, he seemed like an amateur.

Thank you. So many people seem to forget calling Krueger "Wreck it Ralph" when he was here. Of course compared to Eakins he was genius so that is going to colour our memories of him.

 

[Replacement*]

I think with the kids and how bad goaltending and defense was they got constantly deflated cause even when they would come out big the back end would let them down. So they stopped playing and gave up. And then the reverse happened. Goaltending and d would have a good game and the forwards would be checked out.

I think having a finally good coaching staff to motivate the guys when they are down will go along way. Humans need help sometimes, a bit of motivating and I feel like this group can help the players with that.

I get what you are stating but part of "checking out", so readily, is indicative of not being 100% committed in the first place. More individual resilience is required to fight through any battles. Whether that be within, or with the opponent.

Its easy to find ways and methods of losing and being able to explain that away and players like Horcoff became experts at it. But that's a very unfortunate learning that the kids were exposed to. Real competitive kids started to learn how to lose and accept it. They'll deny this at every turn but its there.

 

[StoveTopStauffer]

Actually Dubby let alot of weak goals in that year. If we had a better goalie that year, we would of made the playoffs.

Yep, anyone who thinks we didn't lose 3/4 games on the backs of him and Whitney's awful defensive plays alone have a short memory.


I distinctly remember a goal from a shot from center.


I understand Krueger messed up on some moments of relying on the vets (Detroit comes to mind specifically), but line matching stuff is WAY overblown.

Our 1st line C had a blown shoulder heavily affecting his production.

Horcoff was our 3C with mostly bad wingers. Terrible.

Our 4th line was a joke.

Petry and Smid were decent that season, the rest of the defense was a mess...and that's an understatement.


Someone want to explain to me how you do quality line matching with 1/3rd of a functional team? Last I checked the 1st line had some solid competition as well so it's not like they were only used on easy assignments.


Renney shouldn't have been fired to begin with but Ralph was a solid rookie coach.

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

I get what you are stating but part of "checking out", so readily, is indicative of not being 100% committed in the first place. More individual resilience is required to fight through any battles. Whether that be within, or with the opponent.

Its easy to find ways and methods of losing and being able to explain that away and players like Horcoff became experts at it. But that's a very unfortunate learning that the kids were exposed to. Real competitive kids started to learn how to lose and accept it. They'll deny this at every turn but its there.

Oh I agree.

Which is why I think having a guy like McLellan who is very experienced here will help get the right attitude into the players. If they still play meh then you trade them for someone who will be a competitor

 

[CupofOil]

Rookie coach, labour dispute shortened season, ZERO preseason, ZERO practice time, games every second day and many times 3 in 5 nights, rookie kids or freshman's and yet he Ralph still got us a couple wins away from the playoffs.


Basically no chance to establish a system play.

Yup, he's overrated.

No, no he did NOT. They were remotely close to the 8th seed at the 35 game mark then lost 10 in a row and looked absolutely dreadful in doing so. 2 fluke wins at the end of the season skewed the goal differential numbers. They were FAR from a couple of wins away.
Once the unsustainably hot PP died down, they tanked, probably the worst 5 on 5 team of the Katz era which is saying A LOT. They run and gunned their way to some victories. Otherwise, they were just as much a mess as any of the other Katz era teams. This team was headed straight into the tank and would have been right in the thick of the MacKinnon chase if it was a full season.

Where were all these Krueger supporters when this board was tearing him to shreds "Wreck It Ralph" "Ralph Malph" and other adoring phrases to describe this apparently good head coach were littered all over GDT's during his tenure?
Maybe you were one of his supporters, I don't know, but I do know that at the time of his firing, most were content.
Didn't like the way they handled his firing but he wasn't a good NHL coach that season. Likeable for sure and ran a good PP but system play was non-existent.

 

[Pressure]

No, no he did NOT. They were remotely close to the 8th seed at the 35 game mark then lost 10 in a row and looked absolutely dreadful in doing so. 2 fluke wins at the end of the season skewed the goal differential numbers. They were FAR from a couple of wins away.
Once the unsustainably hot PP died down, they tanked, probably the worst 5 on 5 team of the Katz era which is saying A LOT. They run and gunned their way to some victories. Otherwise, they were just as much a mess as any of the other Katz era teams. This team was headed straight into the tank and would have been right in the thick of the MacKinnon chase if it was a full season.

Where were all these Krueger supporters when this board was tearing him to shreds "Wreck It Ralph" "Ralph Malph" and other adoring phrases to describe this apparently good head coach were littered all over GDT's during his tenure?
Maybe you were one of his supporters, I don't know, but I do know that at the time of his firing, most were content.
Didn't like the way they handled his firing but he wasn't a good NHL coach that season. Likeable for sure and ran a good PP but system play was non-existent.

There were lots of supporters. And your statements have no backing. 10 points out of the playoffs is a hell of a lot better than the past few years.

Also I love how you failed to take into consideration the rest of my statement. He never had a chance, we don't know what he COULD have done with a full season and preseason. All we know is, RNH stating that they liked the guy and he could have been the one that got away.

Everything you said was based on squeaky wheel syndrome.

 

[oXo Cube]

Definitely has been a lot of revisionist history in regards to Kreuger.

I get that his dismissal has horrible optics and that he looks like solid gold next to the turd that replaced him, but make no mistake his team was carried by a crazy high PP% and a crazy good SV%. It was in a complete nosedive and looked godawful down the 'stretch' in every facet.

If that season is 82 games we are drafting in MacKinnon/Jones territory.

Kreuger was a good PP coach/motivator but he wasn't head coach material, at least not at the time. Most of this board agreed with that assessment as well.

If you want some big time hindsight LOLs, go read the announcement thread for his firing/the Eakins hiring.

 

[CupofOil]

There were lots of supporters. And your statements have no backing. 10 points out of the playoffs is a hell of a lot better than the past few years.

Also I love how you failed to take into consideration the rest of my statement. He never had a chance, we don't know what he COULD have done with a full season and preseason. All we know is, RNH stating that they liked the guy and he could have been the one that got away.

Everything you said was based on squeaky wheel syndrome.

10 points out in a shortened season Pro-Rate that over a normal season and take into consideration how poorly they played down the stretch and that number increases greatly.

Maybe he had lots of supporters at the end of the season but they sure didn't post on this board.
I'm on my phone so I can't link the threads now but the pitchforks were out for him towards the end of the season. Lots of "Nice Guy but Not a Good Head Coach" sentiment.

Ok, back to my computer. Here's a couple of links. The majority wanted him fired, some were sick of them scapegoating coaches saying that they aren't the real problem (duh). Very few who were in full support of him especially after that mini-winning streak in late March or whenever it was.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1358519&highlight=krueger&page=17
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1443841&highlight=krueger

Most were actually thrilled to dump Krueger for Eakins. I'm glad I was one of the posters who said why not Nelson? sidestepped that landmine of posting regret.
Anyway, most agreed that Krueger, while a being a nice guy, was not the right coach for the Oilers.
Hell, there was so much happiness in that thread that Del Preston originated the legendary Vince MacT strut gif.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

10 points out in a shortened season Pro-Rate that over a normal season and take into consideration how poorly they played down the stretch and that number increases greatly.

Maybe he had lots of supporters at the end of the season but they sure didn't post on this board.
I'm on my phone so I can't link the threads now but the pitchforks were out for him towards the end of the season. Lots of "Nice Guy but Not a Good Head Coach" sentiment.

Ok, back to my computer. Here's a couple of links. The majority wanted him fired, some were sick of them scapegoating coaches saying that they aren't the real problem (duh). Very few who were in full support of him especially after that mini-winning streak in late March or whenever it was.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1358519&highlight=krueger&page=17
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1443841&highlight=krueger

Most were actually thrilled to dump Krueger for Eakins. I'm glad I was one of the posters who said why not Nelson? sidestepped that landmine of posting regret.
Anyway, most agreed that Krueger, while a being a nice guy, was not the right coach for the Oilers.
Hell, there was so much happiness in that thread that Del Preston originated the legendary Vince MacT strut gif.

HFOil has always exhibited lemmingitis.

 

[McGoMcD]

Definitely has been a lot of revisionist history in regards to Kreuger.

I get that his dismissal has horrible optics and that he looks like solid gold next to the turd that replaced him, but make no mistake his team was carried by a crazy high PP% and a crazy good SV%. It was in a complete nosedive and looked godawful down the 'stretch' in every facet.

If that season is 82 games we are drafting in MacKinnon/Jones territory.

Kreuger was a good PP coach/motivator but he wasn't head coach material, at least not at the time. Most of this board agreed with that assessment as well.

If you want some big time hindsight LOLs, go read the announcement thread for his firing/the Eakins hiring.

The only thing I will say about Kruger is he was better than Eakins. He still sucked though.

Personally Renny was a great coach, shame we let him go. He might be just as good as McLelland, oh well. We finally have a good coach again. Time to roll!!!

 

[Replacement*]

Heres what I had to say in defense of Kreuger in one of the threads listed above;

Not everybody was keen on getting rid of him.

Kreuger several times this year has commented that the "coachable moments" with this team come after losses. Particularly bad losses. If you look through the schedule and parse through the games one sees that there does appear to be a pattern and for instance a 6-0 loss precipitating the clubs best play of the season in subsequent games.

So what we have here is a bunch of players paying attention only when they are desperate and who otherwise are free agents playing as individuals and not even flirting with the idea of playing 60 system minutes/night. They're just too good for that, right...

WE have a few arrogant players who think they are better than they are young and old alike.

Any GM paying attention to this dynamic should be delivering some fire and brimstone missives outright challenging the players commitment and balls and in defence of the coach who in this org has inhabited the walk the plank position.

The players on this club play exactly like players would on a poor team that has had 4 coaches in 5 years. Because they assume, always, that somebody else walks the plank, never them.

What concerns me is that we've had 4 coaches in the last 5 seasons and the players know it.

All of the people firing coaches at every turn seem to have no awareness that this removes ANY responsibility and accountability from the players that know somebody else is walking the plank anyway.

People complain about coaches here not being able to hold this motley crew accountable without considering for a moment how much credibility we've stripped from the coaching position here.

As in "meet your new boss, we're not sure how long he'll be around but try to play nice..."

Coaches are afforded zero latitude here. Players know it.

Years later, and more revolving coaches door, and that's read fairly astute today. Interesting I was stating that 3 coaches ago.. Its actually disturbing to me through the years viewing all these org mistakes in realtime.

 

[ohheyhemsky]

The only thing I will say about Kruger is he was better than Eakins. He still sucked though.

Personally Renny was a great coach, shame we let him go. He might be just as good as McLelland, oh well. We finally have a good coach again. Time to roll!!!

Is what causes the blur when revising his ability as a coach. As I said previously, he was a good motivator and a bad coach. It's that simple.

He definitely got a lot of of what he had, but he didn't understand how to use what he had correctly.

Also, about Dubnyk. Yes, he let in bad goals. Every goalie does. However, that season, unlike his last, he was the sole reason that we were even in games. Getting outshot to the insane amounts that we were seeing under Krueger's systems were awful.

 

[ohheyhemsky]

I think Krueger seems like a great guy, but he has no idea how to be an NHL coach. His "sit back and wait for the opposing team to make mistakes" approach is not a viable option for this team. Either he changes or he needs to be replaced.

This quote by s7ark perfectly sums up how I feel about Krueger.

I'll state what I stated then. He's a prime example of the Peter principle.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

ahh the "wreck-it-Ralph" era

I fully admit I thought he was in way over his head...turns out he only had 2 assistants

 

[oobga]

hehe, love how he goes out of his way to give props to Krueger who never got a fair shot. He had 1 armed Nuge, Gags and injured half the year Horcoff for C depth. He was forced to play rookie Jultz top minutes because MacT/Tambo agreed to give Jultz the best shot at hitting bonuses. Jultz completely burned out with >1 month to go and just turn into a river boat gambler only caring about getting his last goals/points for the 3M bonus but Kreuger had to keep on playing him. He was stuck with 2 useless assistant coaches who had their jobs protected by management. He had no training camp. And he only played Western Conference. I think he still managed more wins vs the West in his shortened season than Eakins did in 1.5 seasons.

That was MacT's biggest error by far. But as we all know, without Lowe being an idiot hiring his best bud and without Lowe's best bud being an idiot, we wouldn't have got McDavid.

 

[nerblet]

hehe, love how he goes out of his way to give props to Krueger who never got a fair shot (1 armed Nuge, Gags and injured half the year Horcoff for C depth. Forced to play rookie Jultz top minutes because MacT/Tambo agreed to give Jultz the best shot at hitting bonuses. Jultz completely burned out with >1 month to go and just turn into a river boat gambler only caring about getting his last goals/points for the 3M bonus but Kreuger had to keep on playing him. Stuck with 2 useless assistant coaches who had their jobs protected by management. No training camp. Only played Western Conference.).

That was MacT's biggest error by far. But as we all know, without Lowe being an idiot hiring his best bud and without Lowe's best bud being an idiot, we wouldn't have got McDavid.

As soon as that gold card turned around I kind of stopped resenting the past because of what our future looks like now. Everything happened the way it did so we could get McDavid and be a powerhouse. Can't wait for the future

 

[oobga]

As soon as that gold card turned around I kind of stopped resenting the past because of what our future looks like now. Everything happened the way it did so we could get McDavid and be a powerhouse. Can't wait for the future

Yeah, it is really hard to resent the past now, it's done, and the fans have been compensated greatly for having to witness the incompetence under KLowe's POHO reign with that last draft lottery

Even for Krueger, he is probably having a way better time in his new job than he would have as a NHL head coach.

And on the topic of the kids feeling bad about getting coaches fired. I hope they know there is nothing they could have done to save Eakins. It was actually a catch 22, the more they were able to follow exactly what Eakins wanted with his gimmicky system to increase corsi %'s, the more likely it became that they would lose games. Now though, they have an actual NHL quality coach, the more they are able to follow, the more they should have a shot at success and it sounds like all the kids are coming this season to listen and listen well.

 

[Cizin]

Now though, they have an actual NHL quality coach, the more they are able to follow, the more they should have a shot at success and it sounds like all the kids are coming this season to listen and listen well.

Quality assistant coaches, too. And the head coach was able to pick all of them himself.

 

[Fourier]

No, no he did NOT. They were remotely close to the 8th seed at the 35 game mark then lost 10 in a row and looked absolutely dreadful in doing so. 2 fluke wins at the end of the season skewed the goal differential numbers. They were FAR from a couple of wins away.
Once the unsustainably hot PP died down, they tanked, probably the worst 5 on 5 team of the Katz era which is saying A LOT. They run and gunned their way to some victories. Otherwise, they were just as much a mess as any of the other Katz era teams. This team was headed straight into the tank and would have been right in the thick of the MacKinnon chase if it was a full season.

Where were all these Krueger supporters when this board was tearing him to shreds "Wreck It Ralph" "Ralph Malph" and other adoring phrases to describe this apparently good head coach were littered all over GDT's during his tenure?
Maybe you were one of his supporters, I don't know, but I do know that at the time of his firing, most were content.
Didn't like the way they handled his firing but he wasn't a good NHL coach that season. Likeable for sure and ran a good PP but system play was non-existent.

I don't disagree with all of what you say but they were not "remotely close" to the 8th seed at the 35 game mark. They were the 8th seed. I'm also not so sure that their pp was unsustainable since they were able to come close to the same numbers again under Nelson without Hall.

One thing you also need to remember is that they played the last 13 games, and in fact a fair bit of the last half with both Nuge and Eberle injured. Nuge's shoulder was shot and Eberle played but could barely hold his stick. Hemsky was also hurt. The whole offense was Hall, Yakupov and Schultz. Gagner had 4 points in that stretch including 3 in the last two games.

I will say though that I don't think Krueger was the answer.

 

[Stoneman89]

Krueger is a well-respected person because he is such a good speaker. Hell, he wrote a book on motivational speaking. But I vividly remember a complete lack of a system in his games and really poor line matching. He may have been a hell of a players' coach, but when it came to strategy, he seemed like an amateur.

Tough to get any kind of a system installed when you have zero training camp to prepare and are thrust right into it against exclusively tough western conference opposition in a condensed schedule. And to boot, you're dealing with a bunch of young kids fairly new to the league and the rest an extremely flawed roster. Not a lot of time to get anything instituted under those tough conditions. I thought he did very well and the team performed above where I thought they'd be given the circumstances. When you have a fading Horcoff and a useless Belanger up front and a pathetic Cam Barker on the back end, mixed in with a bunch of teens and 20 year olds in a mans league, I'm not sure how you're going to win many matchups against the likes of San Jose, Anaheim or L.A. Despite all that, Krueger remains with the best coaching record on this team in the last 6-7 years, albeit in a short sample size. And a good number of the kids trended upwards nicely while he was in charge. I bet this years team takes a good 30-40 games or more to start to get settled in with yet another new coaches system. And yet, MacGoof was willing to let his man Eakins have two years to try to get his system in place.

 

[Stoneman89]

No kidding. I think Wreck it Ralph was even an avatar thing for awhile wasn't it? I'm happy to remember the guy fondly and all because he didn't screw us like Eakins did, but this thread is heavy on the revisionism.

As for RNH being tired of "getting coaches fired" (not that I think he ever did that), only one thing to do kid. Play harder. Starting next month. Come out of the gate and rip this conference a new ******* before they even know what hit them. Shut up every doubter and cynic. That's what I'd like to see. Not some weepy interviews in the Journal.

Had to laugh at this. As if to insinuate Nuge hasn't been playing hard since he's been here. Started out in the league as an 18 year #1 centre with no backup support until this year, battled through injuries, and a useless constructed team with a managment that had no clue. He's not giving weepy interviews. He was asked some questions and gave his opinion. I find his insight refreshing and interesting.

 

[Replacement*]

Had to laugh at this. As if to insinuate Nuge hasn't been playing hard since he's been here. Started out in the league as an 18 year #1 centre with no backup support until this year, battled through injuries, and a useless constructed team with a managment that had no clue. He's not giving weepy interviews. He was asked some questions and gave his opinion. I find his insight refreshing and interesting.

RNH absolutely has long stretches of games where he is not feeling confident, driving the play, or feeling comfortable with the puck. His passenger stretches of the past where he had looked like a shadow of the player we saw in Rookie season have been somewhat disguised by Eberle and Hall driving the play. That Nuges rookie season is still his production Pts/G benchmark is interesting.

 

[McShogun99]

I have to admit that I wasn't pleased with the Krueger hiring or with what he was doing the first 20 games of the season but he grew on me. That Oiler team with all its holes, injuries and young players were still able to remain competitive and were tied for 8th at the TDL. In hindsight getting rid of Krueger was the best move possible since Eakins set the franchise up for the next 15 years by getting us Draisaitl and Mcdavid.