Speculation: Ryan Kesler trade rumours/speculation discussion

[topheavyhookjaw]

It's important to note though that the non-roster/very young asset in each deal for Richards and Carter, were considered the prime piece in the deal. Schenn and the 8th overall. Edit: Actually, for the Carter deal, you could make a case that Voracek was the prime piece.

This was mentioned by Proto: If you get a player commensurate to a top10 pick, like a Couturier, whether he's in the league or not, a 1st, and a good young roster player, then that's a welcome deal. Considering that Kesler is still young and a mid-term contract.

Arsmaster:

I'd look at it this way, Kesler is worth 80% of Carter/Richards at those deals. A Voracek type value asset + lesser first, or a lower ceiling roster player (Simmonds) + recent lottery pick (Schenn).

So honestly, not saying I love all these, just trying to get a valuation:

Sutter + Pouliot + 2nd

Couturier + PHI 1st

Atkinson/Anisimov + Wennberg + 3rd


Some lesser discussed 'dark horses'

STL:

Berglund + 2nd (I think Berglund could be ideal buy low candidate)

DAL:

Eakin + Faksa + 2nd

 

[Bgav]

I don't really know if I want either TBH.

I think TT is going to become a premier star in the NHL. Stud.

 

[NoShowWilly]

i really hope Tampa Bay or Anaheim jump up and do something dumb. They have the assets to throw around.

 

[Proto]

If they trade Kesler, Sutter would be their 2nd line centre. Sutter isn't even outproducing Richardson, never mind Santorelli or the fact Horvat could step into a 3rd line role sooner than later.

Sutter made sense at the deadline last season, not now IMO.

Aren't you the one suggesting a 5-7 year rebuild? Why does whatever player the Canucks acquire for Kesler have to be an immediate Kesler replacement?

I have yet to see anyone suggest Sutter would be the "major piece" in a deal with Pittsburgh though. I think he would be a fine roster player in addition to a top prospect and draft pick(s) though -- with an eye on Horvat being on the roster in the next few years and the team acquiring another centre (ROR, etc.) somewhere.

 

[CanaFan]

But Sutter is also a very good 3rd line center, which the Nucks also need...

You do not trade Kesler - a top end 2C - for a package build around a very good 3C. My concern with this trade is that Gillis puts too much emphasis on the roster player coming back - one that will de facto be a lesser player than Kesler - rather than on the prospect which, while carrying some risk, could have the potential to be as good or better than Kesler one day.

In other words if Sutter is the main "value" coming back, we have squandered the Kesler asset. If it is built around a top prospect like Wennberg or TT and a high pick, then there is the potential to have another Kesler (or similar value) in 3-4 years. IMO Gillis needs to focus on upside more than surety for a player of Kesler's value. We aren't winning the cup with Sutter in and Kesler out. So what's the point of basing a package around him?

 

[arsmaster*]

I'd look at it this way, Kesler is worth 80% of Carter/Richards at those deals. A Voracek type value asset + lesser first, or a lower ceiling roster player (Simmonds) + recent lottery pick (Schenn).

So honestly, not saying I love all these, just trying to get a valuation:

Sutter + Pouliot + 2nd

Couturier + PHI 1st

Atkinson/Anisimov + Wennberg + 3rd


Some lesser discussed 'dark horses'

STL:

Berglund + 2nd (I think Berglund could be ideal buy low candidate)

DAL:

Eakin + Faksa + 2nd

You don't "buy low" with the best chip in the organization.

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

Aren't you the one suggesting a 5-7 year rebuild? Why does whatever player the Canucks acquire for Kesler have to be an immediate Kesler replacement?

I have yet to see anyone suggest Sutter would be the "major piece" in a deal with Pittsburgh though. I think he would be a fine roster player in addition to a top prospect and draft pick(s) though -- with an eye on Horvat being on the roster in the next few years and the team acquiring another centre (ROR, etc.) somewhere.

who in the Pens prospect stock would you consider a "Top prospect"?

If Pitsburgh can somehow swing an early deal for a top 10 pick to then flip to us I can see some value being there.

 

[Drop the Sopel]

Aren't you the one suggesting a 5-7 year rebuild? Why does whatever player the Canucks acquire for Kesler have to be an immediate Kesler replacement?

I have yet to see anyone suggest Sutter would be the "major piece" in a deal with Pittsburgh though. I think he would be a fine roster player in addition to a top prospect and draft pick(s) though -- with an eye on Horvat being on the roster in the next few years and the team acquiring another centre (ROR, etc.) somewhere.

No, I said you ideally move Kesler for a guy like Ryan Strome. A player that could be 2 years away from making an impact. And that targeting players in the 20-23 age range would help avoid the 5-7 year re-build you would likely need to undertake if you look to re-build through the draft. I have heard Teravainen is close to or is NHL ready - another reason why he's such an attractive commodity.

The problem with Sutter is he doesn't address a large enough need, nor does Pouliot IMO. Sutter would make sense for a lot of teams, like the Oilers for example. I just have no interest in defensive forwards coming back as valuable pieces in a deal for Ryan Kesler. The focus needs to be on bringing in guys with high skilllevel/ceilings IMO. The top line is approaching 35, and the system is lacking in this type of talent. Kesler could be one of very few opportunities to address these needs.

Like I said, Gillis needs to try and hit a home run with this deal. Sutter is a bunt single.

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

I'd look at it this way, Kesler is worth 80% of Carter/Richards at those deals. A Voracek type value asset + lesser first, or a lower ceiling roster player (Simmonds) + recent lottery pick (Schenn).

Why is Kesler worth 80% of them? Why would Kesler have less value at the deadline than a guy traded at the draft, with personal question marks, and negotiated to a single team only?

So honestly, not saying I love all these, just trying to get a valuation:

Sutter + Pouliot + 2nd

A late 2nd? Fire-able offence

Couturier + PHI 1st

Good trade

Atkinson/Anisimov + Wennberg + 3rd

Need a higher pick

Some lesser discussed 'dark horses'

STL:

Berglund + 2nd (I think Berglund could be ideal buy low candidate)

Possibly the worst trade proposal I've seen yet

DAL:

Eakin + Faksa + 2nd

Not awful

 

[topheavyhookjaw]

You don't "buy low" with the best chip in the organization.

All I meant there is the logjam in the top 6 in STL has kept Berglund's production at a place where he might be available for Kesler. They could do worse than a 25 y/o 2nd line centre.

You should always be trying to buy low IMO, that's how you get value.

 

[Bleach Clean]

I'd look at it this way, Kesler is worth 80% of Carter/Richards at those deals. A Voracek type value asset + lesser first, or a lower ceiling roster player (Simmonds) + recent lottery pick (Schenn).

It's fair to see it that way. Carter/Richards were on long-term deals, Kesler's is only 2 years. He's also older. However, I'm not sure if there was a bidding war for the services of either Carter or Richards, so that may factor in.

Those types of deals you listed make for a good base I think.

So honestly, not saying I love all these, just trying to get a valuation:

Sutter + Pouliot + 2nd

Couturier + PHI 1st

Atkinson/Anisimov + Wennberg + 3rd


Some lesser discussed 'dark horses'

STL:

Berglund + 2nd (I think Berglund could be ideal buy low candidate)

DAL:

Eakin + Faksa + 2nd

Like the bolded Couturier deal as a base. The Wennberg deal I would change to Dubinsky + 1st + Wennberg. This is a weaker draft, and Dubinsky would make for a better target over Anisimov IMO.

Berglund could be the ideal buy low guy, but I wouldn't centre a deal around Kesler for him. Too many question marks and not enough upside. Not high on Faksa and someone should be able to beat that PIT deal.

 

[Lundface*]

I don't see Kesler being traded. I'm sure there will be some half hearted offer's but nothing that really works for Vancouver. A trade with Chicago would be ideal IMO, if they were involving pieces like TT and Saad.

If you think of it from their perspective their future is pretty set since Kane/Toews are so young. With Hossa/Sharp getting older might as well push for a piece that will put them over the top for the next few seasons.

 

[shortshorts]

Yup.

I like TT from Chicago as well.

If we can pry Saad and TT from them it's a good trade.

 

[arsmaster*]

All I meant there is the logjam in the top 6 in STL has kept Berglund's production at a place where he might be available for Kesler. They could do worse than a 25 y/o 2nd line centre.

You should always be trying to buy low IMO, that's how you get value.

It might be how you get value when you acquire said player for jannik Hansen types. Not when using your most valuable piece.

 

[Peen]

Yup.

I like TT from Chicago as well.

If we can pry Saad and TT from them it's a good trade.

More like a deal we need to bend over backwards and take right now without hesitation

 

[y2kcanucks]

Keep in mind: any trade with Chicago would see us taking salary back. They are right up against the cap and can't afford to take on Kesler's $5M salary.

 

[topheavyhookjaw]

Why is Kesler worth 80% of them? Why would Kesler have less value at the deadline than a guy traded at the draft, with personal question marks, and negotiated to a single team only?


A late 2nd? Fire-able offence

For real, that was a typo, figured the late first was the value change.

Possibly the worst trade proposal I've seen yet

I'm admittedly high on Berglund, genuinely believe he's a second line C. Has never produced under Hitch like he under Payne/Murray, and don't know STL's prospect situation well enough to get a read on a prospect, and all their upcoming 1sts are gone (or conditionally gone and not trade-able)

Not awful

Could definitely see Dallas as a buyer, and Eakin has produced well in non exclusively offensive situations. I also wonder if retaining Kesler money could help pry a better asset from them. Kesler the perfect fit behind Benn/Seguin, and if they add the right piece they could contend sooner than many think, and a clear window during Kesler's contract.

 

[huntison]

Edler + Kesler

For

B. Schenn + Couturier + Meszaros

 

[Drop the Sopel]

Keep in mind: any trade with Chicago would see us taking salary back. They are right up against the cap and can't afford to take on Kesler's $5M salary.

Would much rather see the Canucks absorb salary, take none back and get a better return. Though I don't write the cheques.

To Chi- Kesler (salary retained)
To Van- Teravainen, Pirri, Hartman, 1st

 

[huntison]

Future

Sedin - Sedin - Kassian
Shinkaruk - Schenn - Horvat
Higgins - Couturier - Hansen
Sestito - Lain - Richardson

 

[Addison Rae]

Edler + Kesler

For

B. Schenn + Couturier + Meszaros

Edler > Schenn
Kesler > Couts
Nothing > Meszaros

pass.

 

[topheavyhookjaw]

It's fair to see it that way. Carter/Richards were on long-term deals, Kesler's is only 2 years. He's also older. However, I'm not sure if there was a bidding war for the services of either Carter or Richards, so that may factor in.

Those types of deals you listed make for a good base I think.





Like the bolded Couturier deal as a base. The Wennberg deal I would change to Dubinsky + 1st + Wennberg. This is a weaker draft, and Dubinsky would make for a better target over Anisimov IMO.

Berglund could be the ideal buy low guy, but I wouldn't centre a deal around Kesler for him. Too many question marks and not enough upside. Not high on Faksa and someone should be able to beat that PIT deal.

I admittedly know **** all about Dallas's prospects, so looked at recent first rounder, HF has Shore rated higher for whatever that's worth. I just think Eakin>>>>Sutter, so building around him makes more sense.

If STL hadn't offloaded all their picks a package with Berglund works better.

 

[Bleach Clean]

I admittedly know **** all about Dallas's prospects, so looked at recent first rounder, HF has Shore rated higher for whatever that's worth. I just think Eakin>>>>Sutter, so building around him makes more sense.

If STL hadn't offloaded all their picks a package with Berglund works better.

I don't mind Berglund. I would try to deal for him. Just get the sense that Kesler will go east. How differently do you see Berglund from Eller?

 

[Proto]

No, I said you ideally move Kesler for a guy like Ryan Strome. A player that could be 2 years away from making an impact. And that targeting players in the 20-23 age range would help avoid the 5-7 year re-build you would likely need to undertake if you look to re-build through the draft. I have heard Teravainen is close to or is NHL ready - another reason why he's such an attractive commodity.

The problem with Sutter is he doesn't address a large enough need, nor does Pouliot IMO. Sutter would make sense for a lot of teams, like the Oilers for example. I just have no interest in defensive forwards coming back as valuable pieces in a deal for Ryan Kesler. The focus needs to be on bringing in guys with high skilllevel/ceilings IMO. The top line is approaching 35, and the system is lacking in this type of talent. Kesler could be one of very few opportunities to address these needs.

Like I said, Gillis needs to try and hit a home run with this deal. Sutter is a bunt single.

Again, I would be looking to acquire a Sutter type player as a roster player in any deal if it's addition to a prospect with Top 10 draft value and another 1st, etc. I just think the emphasis on Sutter is a red herring here, because it ideally wouldn't be the 1st or 2nd most important asset in a trade with Pittbsurgh.

Note: Pittsburgh would not be my choice, either. Sutter was just a sort of stand-in for the type of roster player I could see Gillis targeting in addition to more valuable futures.

 

[The Iron Goalie]

I'd look at it this way, Kesler is worth 80% of Carter/Richards at those deals. A Voracek type value asset + lesser first, or a lower ceiling roster player (Simmonds) + recent lottery pick (Schenn).

So honestly, not saying I love all these, just trying to get a valuation:

Sutter + Pouliot + 2nd

Couturier + PHI 1st

Atkinson/Anisimov + Wennberg + 3rd


Some lesser discussed 'dark horses'

STL:

Berglund + 2nd (I think Berglund could be ideal buy low candidate)

DAL:

Eakin + Faksa + 2nd

All those trades require a 1st round pick, not 2nd/3rd rounders, and as for the Berglund trade I reached an agreement with a blues fan for Berglund+Rattie+1st. If Gillis trades Kesler for 80% of Carter/Richards value...fire him now, and I like Gillis