Ryan Johansen Watch IV

[blahblah]

And screw the supposed RFA structure.

Bridge deal structure. And no the Jackets are obviously not going to say "screw it". I'm not sure they even should.

 

[EspenK]

Move to a point. Every player cant come in and ask for 10 mil just so thet meet higher then the player is worth

And every team can't stick to their first offer forever either or low ball so much that they can meet lower than the player is worth.

 

[blahblah]

And every team can't stick to their first offer forever either or low ball so much that they can meet lower than the player is worth.

Let's not get silly here. They offered much larger raises in the form of long term deals. They just aren't going to pay him like an elite center. Yet.

Once Johasen's side drops to around 4, we'll start to see some real negotiations. The Jackets have made it well known they aren't going to mess around with the current pay structure on current bridge deals. These small drops from other camp are meaningless gestures.

 

[stevo61]

And every team can't stick to their first offer forever either or low ball so much that they can meet lower than the player is worth.

What was their long term offer, 5.75? Another comparable from Colorado would be a guy that has had a better 3 years on his entry level and was also named their captain. he's about to start getting 5.571 over 7 years.
Toews got 6.3 but he won that big shiny thing everyone wants.
Max Pacioretty played pretty bad and got a low 2 year prove what you can do contract and 33G+32A got him 4.5 over 5 years

 

[jackets4life]

JD on the negotiations: "There's just not a lot going on right now."

 

[NotWendell]

We're at the point now where Joey's holdout is hurting the team.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

We're at the point now where Joey's holdout is hurting the team.

I think I'll make that call 2 weeks from now after I see what the team's record is. Being 4-1 or even 3-2 over those 5 games will go a lot further than being 1-4 over that span.

 

[Jackets16]

^Negotiating is hard when one side starts at $6.75 mill / year and wants to use Stamkos as a comparable.

Exactly. Let's say Joey should get between $3.5 million and $4 million per year on a two year deal (I think most agree with this). That would mean the front office's original offer was between $0.5 million and $1 million lower. Whereas Ryan's agents offer was $2.75 million to $3.25 million over. If anything, Columbus should have started around $2.5 million so they had more room to move up and make it seem like they were giving more. Columbus shouldn't move their offer up much until Ryan's agents makes an offer of around $4.5 million where the second year isn't more than $4.5 million.

 

[Jackets16]

We're at the point now where Joey's holdout is hurting the team.

I disagree. Joey's holdout is hurting Joey.

 

[stevo61]

I disagree. Joey's holdout is hurting Joey.

To a point it's both. When someone is missing time for controllable reasons it hurts everyone. We're at the point where Jarmo needs to completely forget about it and focus on who is there while Zito deals with KO and work quietly. Obviously have his numbers to work with but just have calm negotiations until something works. I dont think it's as bad in the locker room as some people guess. It's been brought up many times but Dubi has been there before with the same agent so i'm sure he knows whats happening. May not like what they are after but knows whats happening

 

[Samkow]

I disagree. Joey's holdout is hurting Joey.

Yeah, we don't need our first line center!

 

[Jackets16]

Yeah, we don't need our first line center!

We have played zero games. Until we play games and lose games, it isn't hurting us ONE BIT. On the other hand, Joey isn't developing or getting paid. He is the only one who is being hurt RIGHT NOW.

 

[EspenK]

To a point it's both. When someone is missing time for controllable reasons it hurts everyone. We're at the point where Jarmo needs to completely forget about it and focus on who is there while Zito deals with KO and work quietly. Obviously have his numbers to work with but just have calm negotiations until something works. I dont think it's as bad in the locker room as some people guess. It's been brought up many times but Dubi has been there before with the same agent so i'm sure he knows whats happening. May not like what they are after but knows whats happening

Unless I'm completely misunderstanding the GM's role, once he is involved in deciding the last rounds of cuts, I can't imagine anything more worthy of his time at this point than resolving this contract. Let the coaches focus on who is here and Jarmo should focus on getting the deal done.

 

[Sore Loser]

Maybe there are only twenty-twenty-twenty-four hours to go.

That is the most perfect gif

 

[Hello Johnny]

We have played zero games. Until we play games and lose games, it isn't hurting us ONE BIT. On the other hand, Joey isn't developing or getting paid. He is the only one who is being hurt RIGHT NOW.

Look, I have as much confidence in our depth as anyone. But if hindsight is 20/20, your foresight must be 100/20. We're depleted, and we need every bit of help we can get. If we had a full and healthy roster then we'd have more power, but we need a ringer. I know it sounds like giving in, but when your car needs an oil change or new tires, you can only go so long without ponying up. Just sign him already. $4 million is a great deal for a player like him.

 

[DarkandStormy]

Time to start an O/U poll on regular season games he'll miss?

 

[stevo61]

Unless I'm completely misunderstanding the GM's role, once he is involved in deciding the last rounds of cuts, I can't imagine anything more worthy of his time at this point than resolving this contract. Let the coaches focus on who is here and Jarmo should focus on getting the deal done.

Zito is the one doing a lot of the negotiating. I'm sure Jarmo is the one who can set a number and Zito would have to come back to him on things. JD can go do his work because he seems to get a little too emotional GM is a lot of work not even worrying about a holdout.

 

[stevo61]

Look, I have as much confidence in our depth as anyone. But if hindsight is 20/20, your foresight must be 100/20. We're depleted, and we need every bit of help we can get. If we had a full and healthy roster then we'd have more power, but we need a ringer. I know it sounds like giving in, but when your car needs an oil change or new tires, you can only go so long without ponying up. Just sign him already. $4 million is a great deal for a player like him.

The one thing i go back to is our optimism last off season. We didn't expect 33 goals from Johansen or even 16 from Jenner yet we still had playoff hopes. Yeah we are missing some key guys but I think we have enough here to at least keep us afloat until guys get back in the lineup. Personally I expect a big season from Bob anyway and I think he's a big safety net that can hide a lot of early problems. I don't think he'll be what Lundqvist has been to the Rangers but he'll have to be in that same area of importance to the team.
Also do they even accept 4mil? if they walk in and say lets split it at 4mil and end this does KO see that as caving and think hey if they gave up to that lets push for more?

 

[NotWendell]

We have played zero games. Until we play games and lose games, it isn't hurting us ONE BIT. On the other hand, Joey isn't developing or getting paid. He is the only one who is being hurt RIGHT NOW.

At this point, meaning today, it hurts the team because the team is not practicing with him in preparation for games that matter. Having Jenner and Horton out also hurts the team.

 

[Jackets16]

At this point, meaning today, it hurts the team because the team is not practicing with him in preparation for games that matter. Having Jenner and Horton out also hurts the team.

I don't disagree, but until we are losing games we aren't being hurt. We have won without him before and when we weren't nearly as good of a team.

 

[NotWendell]

I don't disagree, but until we are losing games we aren't being hurt. We have won without him before and when we weren't nearly as good of a team.

And I don't disagree Joey is hurting himself. Both in the pocketbook AND in his popularity among fans.

 

[Dr. Fire]

At this point, meaning today, it hurts the team because the team is not practicing with him in preparation for games that matter. Having Jenner and Horton out also hurts the team.

I agree 100%. I mentioned in another thread, that realistically without any what if's, without our first line we are a bubble team. We go from play-offs to play-offs hope-fulls.

At some point all three should be back, but as you allude to Lee, each one of these guys will need time to get into game shape, and get back in the flow. Joey's and Hortons first two weeks will be their training camp. Jenner not so much. That guy will stay in game shape for sure.

Joey does hurt himself, but he hurts the team more by holding out.

 

[TaketheCannoli]

http://www.theunionblue.com/2014/09/18/everyone-wrong-hate-everything/#more-6822

An old article. I somehow missed it the first time around. He makes some good points and got me to re-think the situation for the umpteenth time. I think he is right for the most part. My opinion on the situation as of today is the Jackets are being just as dumbassed about this as Joey's side. If they don't like the back weighting of the 2 year 9.7 deal then offer to go 4.0 per and try and get this done somewhere in the middle. Coach is right - negotiating is hard when only one side is moving (and spare me the Jackets went to 3.25 mill).

Both sides need to move and find common ground.

And screw the supposed RFA structure.

That's a truly amazing article. He starts by saying he is not supporting Johansen's demands and no one is to claim he is doing so in comments or on twitter, the he writes a long convoluted article on why he supports Johansen's position.

I think he wants it both ways.

What a joke.

 

[db2011]

The one thing i go back to is our optimism last off season. We didn't expect 33 goals from Johansen or even 16 from Jenner yet we still had playoff hopes. Yeah we are missing some key guys but I think we have enough here to at least keep us afloat until guys get back in the lineup. Personally I expect a big season from Bob anyway and I think he's a big safety net that can hide a lot of early problems. I don't think he'll be what Lundqvist has been to the Rangers but he'll have to be in that same area of importance to the team.
Also do they even accept 4mil? if they walk in and say lets split it at 4mil and end this does KO see that as caving and think hey if they gave up to that lets push for more?

The bolded is a big question. He may not. Joey is certainly worth more than that in my opinion, but he's unable to get it given the nature of the CBA and this front office. So KO should look at $4m x 2 as an acceptable offer because it will get his client under contract and playing for a bigger deal, hopefully negotiated next year, and it will also give him the ability to say that he has set a new precedent with bridge deals.

Another big question, though, is would they ever see that kind of offer. JD has expressly stated that $4m is not money he would offer in this circumstance.

 

[pete goegan]

The bolded is a big question. He may not. Joey is certainly worth more than that in my opinion, but he's unable to get it given the nature of the CBA and this front office. So KO should look at $4m x 2 as an acceptable offer because it will get his client under contract and playing for a bigger deal, hopefully negotiated next year, and it will also give him the ability to say that he has set a new precedent with bridge deals.

Another big question, though, is would they ever see that kind of offer. JD has expressly stated that $4m is not money he would offer in this circumstance.

No, I don't believe they will see an offer like that. I think he will be worth more than that as a UFA, but he's not, for now. I believe he will perform over the next few years at the same level, or better, than last year. When he approaches free agency, he'll see the big payday. Not now.