Ryan Johansen Saga III

[db2011]

If you haven't heard or seen enough to make you have questions about this guys character, nothing anyone can link will change your mind.

And if you are honest, Joey only has 2 defining moments in his career, last season and the benching. Maybe we could see a little more before baking up the Brinks truck.







His own comments during the contract negotiations cause concern for me about his character.

He shouldn't have spoken to the media in that way, agreed, but aside from the missteps of a 21 year old kid in his first contract negotiation of note, he's not wrong in anything he says here.

That his comments cause concern for you about his character speaks more to your standards than his character.

 

[1Gold Standard]

If management puts out there that they had to ride the kids ass for 2 years citing work ethic and consistency, that the springfild benching was the final straw that came to a head. What part of the full 2 years them riding his azz makes you think there are no issues ? When they come out and say, he had 1 great year, bu we need to see more, does that not tell you that they may think last year was once again Joey turning it on when he needs to to get paid. If your married, ignore your spouse, and when you want some, treat your wife nice, and see if she thinks its honkey dorey. The point I'm making is they certainly look at the whole relationship, not when Joey apllied himself to get paid.

He had 1 good year, yes, the 1st 2 years it was clearly obvious to everybody that he wasn't NHL ready, but it was management's idiotic decision to keep him in the NHL when the better developmental model would have been to send him back to finish his junior career followed by a year in the AHL. That would have been the better option, but they messed that up. But they loved his cheap ELC then...now they have to pay. Do they really think they are getting a number 1 center for 8 years at approx. 5 mill per season? please! that **** ain't going to fly.

 

[We Want Ten]

By you and Fro's line of thinking, you wouldn't want to pay Patrick Kane and probably traded him after his partying and cabbie incidents. You would have traded and publicly bashed Jamie Benn and PK Subban for holding out. You wouldn't have matched Diva O'Reilly's over sheet and let him take his ball back to Calgary.

And in all those cases, the teams would have been much worse.

I'm on record of saying I think Ryan should get around 4-4.5. I'm allowed to have concerns about a guy, but ultimately its only a 2 year deal, I'd be willing to see what he's got.

You asked for an example of character concern, I listed it. You have chosen to disregard it, color me stunned.

ROR never would have made it to Calgary as he never would have cleared waivers. I wish people would quit using ROR as an example as its bad all around.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

There was nothing backhanded about Joey's tweet. They're buddies. You and others are choosing to make something more of it but to call it backhanded is completely baseless.

Why does Joey have to publicly say he's happy to play for Brad Larsen? Have any other players done that? Must have missed those press conferences. In all his years coaching Springfield do you honestly think Joey was the only player who was benched, or had his ice time cut, etc? Puh-leeze.

Derick Brassard just went to the Stanely Cup finals with Scott Arniel as his assistant coach. Brassard's issues with Arniel were much worse than anything between Joey and Larsen, and yet they coexist just fine currently. The overdramatics you guys are spewing on here about the benching 2 years are ridiculous.

I'm going to have to dismiss what you say out of hand because it doesn't jibe with my own opinion on the matter.

 

[We Want Ten]

He shouldn't have spoken to the media in that way, agreed, but aside from the missteps of a 21 year old kid in his first contract negotiation of note, he's not wrong in anything he says here.

That his comments cause concern for you about his character speaks more to your standards than his character.

The comments themselves are just another piece of the puzzle. Taken by themselves they are what they are, but once you start adding everything up, yeah it gives me pause for concern.

 

[Jive Pawnbroker]

He had 1 good year, yes, the 1st 2 years it was clearly obvious to everybody that he wasn't NHL ready, but it was management's idiotic decision to keep him in the NHL when the better developmental model would have been to send him back to finish his junior career followed by a year in the AHL. That would have been the better option, but they messed that up. But they loved his cheap ELC then...now they have to pay. Do they really think they are getting a number 1 center for 8 years at approx. 5 mill per season? please! that **** ain't going to fly.

Just so that you know the whole story (not that I expect it to change your mind, but who knows, it might)...

2010-11 season spent with Portland (Howson in charge)
2011-12 season spent with Columbus, with time spent playing in the WJC (Howson in charge). IIRC, Ryan wasn't eligible to play in the AHL that season due to him not meeting the age requirement.
2012-13 season - played in AHL during lockout and then Columbus after lockout (Howson canned after lockout and replaced by Jarmo shortly afterwards)
2013-14 season - breakout year

In summary, inferring that Jarmo is getting what is due to him is not valid since he had no say in Ryan's development until about 18 months ago.

 

[CBJx614]

Just so that you know the whole story (not that I expect it to change your mind, but who knows, it might)...

2010-11 season spent with Portland (Howson in charge)
2011-12 season spent with Columbus, with time spent playing in the WJC (Howson in charge). IIRC, Ryan wasn't eligible to play in the AHL that season due to him not meeting the age requirement.
2012-13 season - played in AHL during lockout and then Columbus after lockout (Howson canned after lockout and replaced by Jarmo shortly afterwards)
2013-14 season - breakout year

In summary, inferring that Jarmo is getting what is due to him is not valid since he had no say in Ryan's development until about 18 months ago.

Not agreeing that it's Jarmos fault about his development, but I do thino Howson messed up in calling him up after the season he had in Portland. The Winterhawks were poised to make a deep run in both the WHL and the CHL with Ryan leading the way. That could have been for his development and completely changed how his time in the HAL was spent. Hindsight is 20/20, but things would definitely be different if he had spent that extra year in Portland.

 

[db2011]

The comments themselves are just another piece of the puzzle. Taken by themselves they are what they are, but once you start adding everything up, yeah it gives me pause for concern.

What is your concern? That we would be paying a kid with bad character who doesn't deserve it/he's a rotten person that we want to distance ourselves from? Or, the pieces of the puzzle that add up to a portrait of his character indicate he will not perform well as a 1C?

That's a sincere question. If it's the first thing, then so be it, you don't like the kid and think he's headed down a bad path and don't want him in the locker room. I mean, I don't see that at all, I'd think you're crazy but we all have different standards of decorum I guess.

The comments show me that Joey is a prideful, cocky kid. Which are qualities that I think are conditions of being a top line center in the NHL. I wouldn't have it any other way.

If the cause for concern is that he said these things out loud during negotiations, he still sounds more mature than JD did when crying that he was being extorted and admitting to taking the negotiation personally. Do you have cause for concern about the content of JD's character?

 

[KanetoToews2883]

I'm going to have to dismiss what you say out of hand because it doesn't jibe with my own opinion on the matter.

YOUR POST IS OUT OF ORDER! THIS WHOLE DAMN THREAD IS OUT OF ORDER.

Sorry, I couldn't resist. Anyhow, can't we just force mediation, get the GMs and RyJo in a room have everyone hug it out and agree to a 2 year deal somewhere between 4-5 MM? Seriously though, this is starting to get ridiculous. 2/8 or 2/9. Let's just get it inked.

 

[georgiabluejacket]

Here's a little perspective. After their first 3 years in the league.(All numbers pro-rated for 82 game schedule)

Jeff Skinner: Averaged 27g & 29 assists. Makes 5.725 ayear
Tyler Seguin: Averaged 23 & 25. Makes 5.75
Evander Kane: Averaged 22 & 24. Makes 5.25
John Tavaras: Averaged 28 & 39. Makes 5.5
Ryan Johansen: Averaged 18 & 20. Demanding at least 6.5

Averaged the least amount of goals of the group by 4, the least amount of assists by 4, wants the most money by at least 3/4 of a million.

Evander Kane signed his extension after a season in which his pro-rated numbers were.....wait for it......33 goals & 30 assists. Weird right

 

[Wendy Clear]

I've already posted the same stuff man. And it was already ignored by the few who are ignoring everything that's actually relevant.

 

[db2011]

Here's a little perspective. After their first 3 years in the league.(All numbers pro-rated for 82 game schedule)

Jeff Skinner: Averaged 27g & 29 assists. Makes 5.725 ayear
Tyler Seguin: Averaged 23 & 25. Makes 5.75
Evander Kane: Averaged 22 & 24. Makes 5.25
John Tavaras: Averaged 28 & 39. Makes 5.5
Ryan Johansen: Averaged 18 & 20. Demanding at least 6.5

Averaged the least amount of goals of the group by 4, the least amount of assists by 4, wants the most money by at least 3/4 of a million.

Evander Kane signed his extension after a season in which his pro-rated numbers were.....wait for it......33 goals & 30 assists. Weird right

Of those players, who began their sophomore year with a new coach, 1 week of training, and half a season to accrue stats? Think that skews a little?

6.5 is too high, but there's a big difference between demanding it and using it as an offer to come down from.

 

[db2011]

YOUR POST IS OUT OF ORDER! THIS WHOLE DAMN THREAD IS OUT OF ORDER.

Sorry, I couldn't resist. Anyhow, can't we just force mediation, get the GMs and RyJo in a room have everyone hug it out and agree to a 2 year deal somewhere between 4-5 MM? Seriously though, this is starting to get ridiculous. 2/8 or 2/9. Let's just get it inked.

Here's Blue Jackets President of Hockey Operations John Davidson on why your very reasonable compromise is viewed as "not making sense" by Blue Jackets management- and being pretty condescending to boot.

What’s interesting is people talk who really don’t know the CBA or just want to see something happen. They say, ‘Well just meet halfway. Give him $4 million or $4.5 million.’ ” Davidson said. “That doesn’t make sense. You don’t just give him an extra million or two. A lot of people say it who are writers, broadcasters, fans…they don’t understand the process. They don’t understand the CBA.

http://www.thehockeynews.com/blog/b...vidson-turns-both-barrels-on-johansens-agent/

 

[TaketheCannoli]

So sorry to keep you waiting. Work and a social engagement interfered with my response time. I promise to not allow that to happen again.

Are you aware that all of these players have more offensively skilled teammates than Johansen does?

Not a single one of these players led their team in scoring (by percentage) over their next highest scoring teammate than Johansen led the Jackets. Although Hall was very close. No one else was even in the same ball park.

Are you aware that Seguin and Benn play on the same line? Each of those players benefit from the other. I happen to think that Seguin is probably going to be a better point producer than Johansen, but take him off of Benn's line and put him with RJUmgarbage and Foligno and Jack Skille and his numbers would drop. Same with Benn. Would you take Benn over Johansen? Taylor Seguin's contract extension happened after his second year (67 points) after a dreadful 22 point rookie season. It was signed two years ago before the lockout and the cap rise.

Taylor Hall is a #1 overall pick who is a great player. Johansen can't skate like this guy. Not many can. He's the leading scorer on his team by quite a margin-just like Johansen. Eberle benefits greatly from playing with Hall. Would you rather have Eberle than Johansen? Taylor Hall's contract was also signed after year 2 of his ELC, before the lockout and before the cap rose.

John Taveres is another #1 overall pick who is prodigiously talented. His contract was signed before his ELC was finished 3 years ago. Maybe Johansen won't be as good as he is. So what?

The rest of the players are all on the same team. Duchene (70 points), Landeskog (65) and Oreilly (64) also had super rookie McKinnon (63) and Paul Stastny (60) on the same team. You don't think that Johansen might have had a few more points with these types of teammates? He probably would have led the Avalanche in scoring.

All you've done is point out that at this point in their careers, two #1 overall picks (Hall and Tavares) have had higher productivity than Johasnen as has a 2nd overall pick (Seguin). Each of these players have had more NHL experience than Johansen as well. Interestingly, Johansen led his team in scoring over the next highest player by a smidge more than Hall did (24% to 22%). If one goes back to Taveres' last full season (not coincidentally his 3rd NHL season), he led his next highest teammate by only 17%. So Johansen is, within his own team, a more prodigious scorer than two outstanding #1 overall picks. I wouldn't have known this had you not provided me with your post. Thanks.

Ryan Johansen fits very nicely with this group. There is absolutely nothing wrong with his agent seeking the term length that most of these guys are on (6 years) and a bit more money than they received two or more years ago with a lower cap. The contracts these guys signed may very well have been somewhat discounted due to the risk associated with the impending lockout of 2012-13. No one knew what would happen and signing in advance may have given these players a degree of certainty with their future incomes which they wouldn't have had had they not signed prior to the lockout.

Thanks for the response.

There are several things to consider in these:

I know you enjoy discussing shooting %. Johansen scored at an unsustainable 16.4 % shooting rate 5 on 5. The NHL average this past season is 8.1%. His previous high shooting % was 8.9% 5 on 5. His overall shooting % was 13.9%, once again the league-wide average was 8.9%.

What further inflates Johansen's stats are the unsustainable shooting % of his three most common linemates:

As you pointed out Umberger - 18 goals at an unsustainable 13.2% pace

Foligno - 18 goals at a an even more unsustainable 16.2%

Jenner - 16 goals at 12.6%

Johansen averaged 2.9 shots per game. Seguin averaged 3.7, Benn 3.7.

As far as pointing out that Taylor Hall and John Tavares are former #1 picks, the CBJ are offering Johansen comparable deals to theirs. He sure doesn't produce like they do. He definitely doesn't have the track record they do either.

If you like I can repost a number of players who clearly outperformed Johansen his breakout year, yet earn less than he is asking.

Many claim that by scoring 33 goals he has proved himself and there is no risk of regression. I think you posted elsewhere that it's like claiming a college QB who has a great Junior season can't be expected to regress. Please take a look at Evander Kane's record, then Nikolai Kulemin's, Alexandre Burrows, Mikael Samuelsson, and even Dustin Penner who potted 32 goals a few years ago, now no one will even touch him.

The list of players who just regressed is almost infinite.

I believe you, I and ALMOST everyone who posts on the Jackets board wants and believes the same thing. I just want the Jackets to be the very best team they possibly can, compete for a Cup regularly and win a Cup as well.

I can understand if anyone believes the best way to accomplish this is to pay for future production they think a player can achieve.


I for one don't think that's the way to build a team. I think great teams are built by have an entire group who buys in to the team concept. I think the best way to build a team is hold everyone accountable.

If Johansen gets to be in a position to demand 8,9,10 million or more, the market will pay it. That will come when he is eligible for unrestricted free agency and he has consistently performed at a higher level than he has to date.

 

[IHeartZherdev*]

I'm going to have to dismiss what you say out of hand because it doesn't jibe with my own opinion on the matter.

If you want to continue making up a rift between Joey and Dubinsky, calling a friendly tweet "backhanded," insist somehow a benching in the AHL two years ago makes Joey a bad character guy, low work-ethic guy who can't go exist with Brad Larsen on an NHL bench, you can go ahead - but there is no evidence to support any of those theories that you and others are spouting off as if they are facts, rather than made up drama created out thin air and Portzline tweets.

You speculate that because Larsen benched Joey in Springfield, and Joey didn't give a press conference publicly lauding the addition to the coaching staff, he doesn't want to play for him or that's a factor in these negotiations. I responded that Joey wasn't the only player to play for or be disciplined in Springfield, and pointed to an example of how a contentious player/coach incident (Derick Brassard vs. Scott Arniel) can easily be pushed aside as water under the bridge years after it happened and the two can coexist. I also pointed out that other players didn't publicly speak out about Larsen either. And of course, when I bring real life logic and examples into the mix, as usual, you have no response.

 

[IHeartZherdev*]

Here's a little perspective. After their first 3 years in the league.(All numbers pro-rated for 82 game schedule)

Jeff Skinner: Averaged 27g & 29 assists. Makes 5.725 ayear
Tyler Seguin: Averaged 23 & 25. Makes 5.75
Evander Kane: Averaged 22 & 24. Makes 5.25
John Tavaras: Averaged 28 & 39. Makes 5.5
Ryan Johansen: Averaged 18 & 20. Demanding at least 6.5

Averaged the least amount of goals of the group by 4, the least amount of assists by 4, wants the most money by at least 3/4 of a million.

Evander Kane signed his extension after a season in which his pro-rated numbers were.....wait for it......33 goals & 30 assists. Weird right

Yeah, I'm sure all those players "demanded" the exact amount the ended up signing for. They certainly didn't settle for lowball offers of $3 million a year, that's for sure. And of course, the cap has gone up since then and the market has also gone up since those deals were signed. You are ignoring all aspects of the business/market and market in the NHL and looking up a few deals on capgeek.

 

[db2011]

Any agent is going to at least try to get the league average for his performance based on other players contracts negotiated at a % of the cap. It is not salary. It is % of cap.

He was 30G 30A centre at age 21.
Lets go back 15 seasons and look at post 05-06 lockout RFA contracts for players that got 30G 30A by 21 yr.

1. The list of multiple 30G 30A seasons by 21
Crosby 3;
Stamkos 3;
Ovechkin 2;
Malkin 2;
Gaborik 2.
they averaged in the 13-16% of cap when contract negotiated.
Clearly cannot use this group.

The players with 1 season 30G 30A by 21yr.
johansen,
Skinner,
E. staal,
Eberle,
Bergeron,
Horton,
Toews,
P. Kane,
Kopitar,
Tavares,
Seguin,
Hossa,
Heatley,
Gagne,
Thorton
Kovalchuk.

Their post 05-06 lockout RFA contracts average 10.4% of the cap.

10.4% of a 69M cap is 7.2M.

IF his agent does not get 7.2M the young man is getting paid less than average for a 21year old 30G 30A player.

Columbus Mgmt can talk all they want.

History of past contracts says Johansen's Agent is correct!

The comparables don't support it, man. Show me (like RJ's camp would have to show CBJ) which player earned $4.5m/year on a 2-year bridge deal, and if you can find one (since most get $3m to $3.5m), compare his 2 or 3 years of production to RJ's 1 and there's the definitive answer to "what's the problem".

I do agree that it seems CBJ is getting too hung up on his exact dollar and cent worth, and maybe needs to negotiate a little more (I'm saying this loosely based on reading between the lines and stuff, it's not like we know exactly who shares how much of the blame), but at the same time their side is the one which is supported by actual facts. RJ's camp is simply living in dreamland where Stamkos or other players far better than RJ are realistic comparables. Derrrrrp, they're not.

How much was the shortened season, stunted training camp, and new coaching staff used as a reason why the Jackets just missed the playoffs two years ago, during Joey's sophomore season? Seems to me, pretty often. How many of us thought if it had been a full year, the Jackets would have made the playoffs? I remember a lot of us thinking that. I know I did.

That same set of circumstances is relevant to Joey's numbers in terms of comparables to other contracts. It's very tough to fairly compare his first 3 years to the first 3 years of other players who benefitted from full seasons and stable coaching staffs and full training camps. Especially during formative years like the 1st or 2nd years.

For that reason, I think the more relevant numbers are what YOUNG players have accomplished by a certain age, which is why I posted OilerBear's post above. By age 21, Joey is in elite or at least very accomplished company.

(I don't agree when OilerBear says Joey should get the average for such players- due to the real numbers of the first 3 years, I would be very comfortable putting Joey in the below-average range)

 

[Crede777]

This is like a Mexican standoff off only management has a gun and Johansen doesn't.

Davidson: "Give up, we have you cornered!"
Johansen holds up finger in the shape of a gun: "Drop it!"
Davidson: "What? You can't tell us what to do! You don't even have a gun!"
Johansen: "Do so... Now, I said drop it!"

 

[Jive Pawnbroker]

This is like a Mexican standoff off only management has a gun and Johansen doesn't.

Davidson: "Give up, we have you cornered!"
Johansen holds up finger in the shape of a gun: "Drop it!"
Davidson: "What? You can't tell us what to do! You don't even have a gun!"
Johansen: "Do so... Now, I said drop it!"

The funny thing about this analogy is that we don't have consensus here as to who is playing the Good, who is the Bad and who is the Ugly in this situation.

 

[IHeartZherdev*]

This is like a Mexican standoff off only management has a gun and Johansen doesn't.

Davidson: "Give up, we have you cornered!"
Johansen holds up finger in the shape of a gun: "Drop it!"
Davidson: "What? You can't tell us what to do! You don't even have a gun!"
Johansen: "Do so... Now, I said drop it!"

Yep, it's just like that

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

If you want to continue making up a rift between Joey and Dubinsky, calling a friendly tweet "backhanded," insist somehow a benching in the AHL two years ago makes Joey a bad character guy, low work-ethic guy who can't go exist with Brad Larsen on an NHL bench, you can go ahead - but there is no evidence to support any of those theories that you and others are spouting off as if they are facts, rather than made up drama created out thin air and Portzline tweets.

A half-dozen or so other posts I've made attempting to engage you on this topic, with real, legitimate questions and issues, and the one you reply to is the one where I'm totally ****ing around. I figured you were either ignoring them because you knew they were legit and you had no response or I had found my way to your ignore list. Three back-and-forths into this I think I've determined which it is.

I challenge you to find one instance in which I've called Johansen a "bad character" guy or one instance where I said that his AHL benching was a significant issue in this contract negotiation. I challenge you to find one instance in which I have cheered the CBJ FO for its hardline stance in this negotiation.

 

[LetsGOJackets!!]

That about sums it up in a nutshell

This is like a Mexican standoff off only management has a gun and Johansen doesn't.

Davidson: "Give up, we have you cornered!"
Johansen holds up finger in the shape of a gun: "Drop it!"
Davidson: "What? You can't tell us what to do! You don't even have a gun!"
Johansen: "Do so... Now, I said drop it!"

basically the clock is ticking. I can' t make you sign a new contract, but I can assure you won't get paid if you don't sign it. @22 who wants to miss playing in the game?

Joey.. you are benching yourself.. get it together sign the two year and Lets GO JACKETS!!!

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Thanks for the response.

There are several things to consider in these:

I know you enjoy discussing shooting %. Johansen scored at an unsustainable 16.4 % shooting rate 5 on 5. The NHL average this past season is 8.1%. His previous high shooting % was 8.9% 5 on 5. His overall shooting % was 13.9%, once again the league-wide average was 8.9%.

What further inflates Johansen's stats are the unsustainable shooting % of his three most common linemates:

As you pointed out Umberger - 18 goals at an unsustainable 13.2% pace

Foligno - 18 goals at a an even more unsustainable 16.2%

Jenner - 16 goals at 12.6%

Johansen averaged 2.9 shots per game. Seguin averaged 3.7, Benn 3.7.

As far as pointing out that Taylor Hall and John Tavares are former #1 picks, the CBJ are offering Johansen comparable deals to theirs. He sure doesn't produce like they do. He definitely doesn't have the track record they do either.

If you like I can repost a number of players who clearly outperformed Johansen his breakout year, yet earn less than he is asking.

Many claim that by scoring 33 goals he has proved himself and there is no risk of regression. I think you posted elsewhere that it's like claiming a college QB who has a great Junior season can't be expected to regress. Please take a look at Evander Kane's record, then Nikolai Kulemin's, Alexandre Burrows, Mikael Samuelsson, and even Dustin Penner who potted 32 goals a few years ago, now no one will even touch him.

The list of players who just regressed is almost infinite.


I can understand if anyone believes the best way to accomplish this is to pay for future production they think a player can achieve.


I for one don't think that's the way to build a team. I think great teams are built by have an entire group who buys in to the team concept. I think the best way to build a team is hold everyone accountable.

I think that substantial regression risk in Johansen isn't very high. Had he been the beneficiary of an outstanding playmaker, a top goal scorer on his line, or a power play that had a through-the-roof efficiency, then I would give the risk of a regression a much stronger possibility, but given that none of these were part of the equation, I don't see why there would be much risk.

I'm not going to do the homework on it, but I am going to doubt that ANY of the examples of regression you cited (or could cite) led his team in scoring by a percentage as high as Johansen (I know none of them did) or led the team in scoring period (I don't know about this). His stats may not be as heady as last year in certain areas (Tie for 5th in ES goals/60 minutes and 11th overall in goals), but it's unlikely that his overall production drops substantially. Unless he gets very little offensive support from his teammates.

While his shooting percentage might be somewhat high at even strength, it wasn't overall. I'll repost shooting percentage stats by centers. The first is for the top point scoring centers, the second for the top goal scoring centers. Johansen's 13.9% doesn't stand out. In fact, it appears to be in the middle-of-the-pack range. Perhaps his ES Shooting percentage may decline, but his PP % could increase. 13.9% overall is not unsustainable. I don't know where this thinking is coming from. Seems like quite a few on this board have this (false) notion.

Here they are:

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats....position=C&country=&status=&viewName=summary#

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.htm?fetchKey=20142ALLCACALL&sort=goals&viewName=summary

Foligno's shooting percentage was significantly over his career norm, but that could have been in part due to getting great passes from a great center. In any case, he only had 18 goals, so an unusual overage in shooting percentage would have only increased Johansen's assists number by 3 or 4 tops.

Jenner's shooting percentage wasn't that high and he doesn't have any relevant comparable stats.

Umberger's shooting percentage was likely boosted by his fluky PP numbers. I'm not going to check as I'd just as soon forget about that clown

As for the last paragraph, I don't know what evidence you have that Johansen doesn't buy into the team concept. I'm also curious as to why you would imply that he isn't held or isn't accountable.

 

[cbjfaninmo]

This is like a Mexican standoff off only management has a gun and Johansen doesn't.

Davidson: "Give up, we have you cornered!"
Johansen holds up finger in the shape of a gun: "Drop it!"
Davidson: "What? You can't tell us what to do! You don't even have a gun!"
Johansen: "Do so... Now, I said drop it!"

and then....

 

[IHeartZherdev*]

A half-dozen or so other posts I've made attempting to engage you on this topic, with real, legitimate questions and issues, and the one you reply to is the one where I'm totally ****ing around. I figured you were either ignoring them because you knew they were legit and you had no response or I had found my way to your ignore list. Three back-and-forths into this I think I've determined which it is.

I challenge you to find one instance in which I've called Johansen a "bad character" guy or one instance where I said that his AHL benching was a significant issue in this contract negotiation. I challenge you to find one instance in which I have cheered the CBJ FO for its hardline stance in this negotiation.

Well, maybe I consider you guilty by associating with the likes of Fro and his "joey is immature because he takes his ball and goes home" nonsense.

I don't think everyone rehashing the Springfield benching is really legit, and it seems this thread is people just doing that over and over again, and using the fact that Jarmo and JD want to push him to get better to mean that he has to drive, desire, or work ethic. But I apologize for lumping you in with that crowd.