RW/LW Lucas Raymond - Frolunda HC, SWE JRs (2020, 4th, DET)

[16thOverallSaveUs]

I can’t even tell which player is being discussed now despite this thread being dedicated to one particular player. If it isn’t Raymond, what’s with the pronouns only?

Sorry; I was speaking of Perfetti

 

[bsu]

I have no idea what player people are talking about perfetti or Raymond.

 

[DJB]

Skating is pro-average. The work ethic thing is hilarious to me too. Are you around the kid or are you just following reports from others who aren’t around the kid?

No its not pro average. It's well below average.

Work ethic comment is regarding his work ethic on the ice.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Depends what aspect you’re talking about. He actually has good edge-work and lateral mobility. His explosiveness is brutal, but I don’t think it’s going to stay horrible. It’s a lack of strength thing with him. He could probably stand to lose 5% body fat and add 20-25 pounds of Muscle. I think there’s a limit to how effective he could be immediately because of it. I wouldn’t be surprised if he played next year in the NHL and put up 45 points, but I also wouldn’t be suprised if he stagnates at that point for 3 or 4 years until he get’s more physically mature. I think anyone without this guy in their top 5 is making a mistake. The IQ is too good, by the time he’s 22/23 he’ll be a ppg+ player.

I agree with your general description of his skating, but if you don't have any explosiveness at 5'10, it's pretty hard to call skating pro-average.

 

[16thOverallSaveUs]

I agree with your general description of his skating, but if you don't have any explosiveness at 5'10, it's pretty hard to call skating pro-average.

You’re right. I would agree that his skating for a 5’10 guy isn’t pro average. But it still doesn’t concern me much given his brain. I’ve watched Parise be an awful skater for years and still be a serviceable 1st liner, and Parise doesn’t have anywhere near the toolkit/IQ.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

You’re right. I would agree that his skating for a 5’10 guy isn’t pro average. But it still doesn’t concern me much given his brain. I’ve watched Parise be an awful skater for years and still be a serviceable 1st liner, and Parise doesn’t have anywhere near the toolkit/IQ.

I agree. I like Perfetti and I think his skating could improve. Even if it doesn't, he can still be a good player.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

His skating isn't the best but it's hardly terrible, And questionable worth ethic is purely he has a great work ethic. Brayden Point wasn't any better skater then Perfetti and look at what he's doing now. His skating will get better in time if Detroit drafts him they've the patients it takes for him to improve immensely.

You must be reading the Rossi arguments

 

[Random Comment]

Please stop discussing Perfetti in Raymond’s sub. Not only is it confusing to those entering the sub (as pronouns are almost exclusively being used in your arguments), but it’s also cluttering what this thread is meant to discuss.

Furthermore, your discussions about Perfetti could be of value to those who are interested in his dedicated thread. So do everyone a favour and tag each other there.

 

[DJB]

Maybe I missed it back but how has Raymond played so far since the new season started?

 

[theslatcher]

Maybe I missed it back but how has Raymond played so far since the new season started?

First game of the season for him is on saturday, but during pre-season he has looked good on Frölunda's top line.

 

[16thOverallSaveUs]

Maybe I missed it back but how has Raymond played so far since the new season started?

I haven’t watched him but he’s been producing in the preseason. Typically scouts don’t take much stalk in the preseason but for a guy who wasn’t given much opportunity last year, I’d bet they are paying closer attention to how he does with increased opportunity regardless.

 

[newfy]

Skating is pro-average. The work ethic thing is hilarious to me too. Are you around the kid or are you just following reports from others who aren’t around the kid?

Hes doing neither. The work ethic narrative about Perfetti is something that only pops up on HFboards. Youll find no one close to him or scouts that question his work ethic or attitude

First game of the season for him is on saturday, but during pre-season he has looked good on Frölunda's top line.

I was wondering how scouts would take preseason games for Raymond into account. Sounds like they dont care according to Pronmans latest article. Apparently 4 games isnt enough for him to move the needle either so the SHL season wont really impact his draft position at all

 

[theslatcher]

I was wondering how scouts would take preseason games for Raymond into account. Sounds like they dont care according to Pronmans latest article. Apparently 4 games isnt enough for him to move the needle either so the SHL season wont really impact his draft position at all

I don't see how you don't correct your view of prospects if they show that they've fixed the issues you had with them. Or if they show that they haven't fixed them, or even worked on fixing them.

Would be interesting to see what kind of scouts Pronman asked, something Håkan Andersson once said about Raymond+Holtz was along the lines of "it's good to have scouts thinking 'x would produce a ton of points in our junior leagues'". Which to me shows the mentality NA scouts can have about EU prospects.

 

[newfy]

I don't see how you don't correct your view of prospects if they show that they've fixed the issues you had with them. Or if they show that they haven't fixed them, or even worked on fixing them.

Would be interesting to see what kind of scouts Pronman asked, something Håkan Andersson once said about Raymond+Holtz was along the lines of "it's good to have scouts thinking 'x would produce a ton of points in our junior leagues'". Which to me shows the mentality NA scouts can have about EU prospects.

I think its because scoring goals in the preseason while everyone goes through the motions doesnt impact their view and then 4 games is way too short to come to any real conclusions

 

[VictorLustig]

They probably shouldn't be NHL scouts if they can't draw any conclusions out of 4 games, preseason or not. Raymond is now playing in a role he's supposed to have. I see improvements compared to last season.

 

[Captain Clutch]

So maybe the scouts/GMs totally discount the 4 pre-season and small handful of regular season games that the Swedish prospects will play before the draft but at least in Raymond's case it's not likely to impact his draft position one way or the other, he is the consensus 4th overall pick in the draft, at this point he's not going to jump Stutzle or Byfield. Another way to think about it is that Raymond certainly hasn't done anything to hurt himself in the SHL pre-season and I think it's a pretty good sign that he's getting PP1 looks, it seems to me that there is a substantially increasing chance that Raymond has a break-out offensive season this year, the stars certainly seem aligned for it. Perhaps that will assuage the concerns of some scouts/analysts who have doubted him due to his underwhelming offensive performance last year.

Everything I have seen on him points to him being a pretty effective player in the NHL, I still wouldn't take him before Cole Perfetti or Marco Rossi but there is a lot to like there.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I agree that there are things to take out of preseason, but its pretty notorious that veterans often don't put in the same effort in some preseason games, there's a lot of players on the ice who won't be on it during the regular season, and many players are not yet in form. It's not a high quality of hockey compared to regular season hockey, which is why some don't regard it. I would take something from it, but I would not count it the same as a game in early January.

 

[Hen Kolland]

I agree that there are things to take out of preseason, but its pretty notorious that veterans often don't put in the same effort in some preseason games, there's a lot of players on the ice who won't be on it during the regular season, and many players are not yet in form. It's not a high quality of hockey compared to regular season hockey, which is why some don't regard it. I would take something from it, but I would not count it the same as a game in early January.

I’ve made the argument on the Wings page that whether or not you feel that his performance means anything depends on your pre-existing thoughts on Raymond.

If you were a believer in Raymond before, this is just confirmation that he can do what you thought he could. If you weren’t a Raymond truther, this preseason performance won’t be enough to make you adjust your preference.

It’s good to see him produce, because I’ve always had him highly ranked. It gives me comfort going into the draft with a chance that he might be the guy for the Wings. He may have slipped a tad and I might prefer Perfetti at this point, but Raymond still has the “it” factor that had him as a lottery candidate for me all year.

 

[theslatcher]

First game, first goal of the season.

 

[Prntscrn]

Had one hit the post earlier aswell

 

[m0pe]

Not a huge surprise, but he looks really amazing out there.

 

[Prntscrn]

He's quite a lot bigger now compared to last season, isn't he?

 

[theslatcher]

He's quite a lot bigger now compared to last season, isn't he?

Think he has grown 1cm, while adding 3-5kg.

 

[Barry Amsterdam]

anymore points or just the goal

 

[VictorLustig]

Thought he was just okay today. Nice goal, a couple of good scoring chances but not much else.