RW Jake Virtanen (2014, 6th, VAN) III

[Twist and Shout]

Give us your thoughts after the game? Would be nice, especially if you'll be in attendance.

Extremely disappointed in what I saw today. To be honest, I paid the price of admission mainly to watch Kapanen and Virtanen so I was closely watching each of their shifts.

The overall impression I got from Virtanen's play was one of "indifference". He clearly didn't care to play today. Shift after shift he camped up behind the play (even as the Marlies were on the attack for the majority of the shifts he took) waiting for a pass that never came. To be honest, it looked like his teammates chose not to pass to him but really he was just completely out of position more often than not.

I doubt he played more than 12 minutes - there were 6-8 minute chunks in the first and second period where I didn't see him out at all (not sure if he went to the dressing room, or was benched, or was plain tired).

His conditioning seems abysmal - he was always the first person off his line to make a change, on a couple of occasions even leaving his linemates in the offensive zone and heading back to the bench mid-shift.

I also felt he was a couple of steps behind the play physically as the 2-3 hits he attempted came late after the play had already progressed.

I believe he had one good play in the entire game when he mishandled a pass in front of the net, circled around and took a shot from the other side after no one challenged him on the perimeter. I also recall one PP shift (on the second unit) when he had a decent point shot.

Was this the impression of him on TV as well? Didn't look like the Jake of old, and although he wasn't the worst player on the ice he showed absolutely nothing.

He still has time but I hope he shows some real improvement in the next couple of months...

 

[IComeInPeace]

What's the point in nitpicking? I don't know what you're trying to get across with that stat, but it's not fair to Virtanen or fair to people who want to see a honest opinion of how he's produced in the AHL so far. 10 games when he was 18 turning 19, 2 games when he was 19, and now he is 20 years old so far he has 2 assists in 6 games. That's a fair, honest post. I get you're frustrated and letting it out on Virtanen on a hockey board, but the kid is 20 years old. It's not over yet, it wasn't when Brayden Schenn got traded to PHI, didn't produce enough in the NHL. Went to the AHL, and came back and improved. They can still go back and refresh Virtanen's pro career.

I'd cut the kid a lot more slack (and I think I've cut him a lot as I've only turned on him over the last couple of weeks) if everything about him off the ice indicated he was a great kid, 100% committed to his pro career.
That's not the vibe I'm getting.

Yes, you're right. You can write off those 3 assists in 18 AHL games as not really being a fair indicator of his play.

However, if you look at the kids career since being drafted, there's a pattern of failure/disappointment that is hard to overlook.

Disappointing final season in the WHL.
Disappointing NHL camps.
Disappointing World Juniors.
Disappointing in the AHL.
Disappointing in the NHL.
Off ice issues (reading between the lines of what the Sedins and Burrows said last season, and based on coach Willie D's comments)

The lone bright spot was a spell of decent to strong play post World Juniors. The production wasn't necessarily there, but he looked like he could prove a lot of people wrong.

...and then he shows up this season and actually looks worse than the player we saw last season.

 

[lawrence]

I enjoy seeing people come out of the woodwork just to say how big of an idiot Benning is for picking Virtanen at 6. As if to say they have a superior ability when it comes to drafting NHL players.

Either a player makes it or they don't. Just because you made an uneducated guess that looks to be turning out correctly, so what? You're still not important and nobody thinks you're special. There's a reason why Benning is a gm and you're posting about it online.

Picking Virtanen at 6 wasn't an off the board pick. We certainly would have been better off picking Nylander or Ehlers, but so would a number of other teams.

There's nothing we can do about it now. This wasn't the first timd and certainly won't be the last time that a team picks a dud while missing out on what turned out to be a better player. Move on.

I've personally never seen a prospect this badly criticized "by other fans" really. I don't get this, it's like they want to make us feel bad about a wasted pick maybe? when in the past, many top 10 picks don't work out, Nikita Filatov 6th overall, Bret Connolly 6thoverall, Rico Fata 5th overall, Daniek Tkachuk, Alex Burmistrov 10th, Nail Yakupov 1st overall. Scott Glenni (8th overall) zach Hamil (8th overall)

Personally, I hope does well. If not, there's nothing we can do, just like the other players I just mentioned, sometimes it just doesn't work out for whatever reason. It's like beating a dead horse right now, and this is currently Vancouver's problem, no one elses.

1 5 NY Islanders Michael Dal Colle L Oshawa Generals [OHL]
1 6 Vancouver Jake Virtanen R Calgary Hitmen [WHL] 65 7 7 14 47 2016-17
1 7 Carolina Haydn Fleury

.... its not like Michael Dal Colle or Haydrn Fleury is turning heads right now too....... you guys want to comment on (missing on out Nylander, those were the other 3 teams that passed up on Nylander/Ehlers.

 

[Oliewud]

I think the World Juniors pissed a lot of people off. Even though IMO it wasn't his fault, the whole team was trash...except marner.

I've read from a few people on here that Jake was always treated like a star growing up and had a ******* vibe about him. It's hearsay, I know, but it seems like he really does lack character because of the constant affirmation he received/being able to physically dominate everyone.

Hope he picks it up, but it looks like he'll need to simmer down there for a couple years.

Oh ya, he also has a wonky shoulder so his ability to hit has become non-existent. Great. Lol

 

[The Iron Goalie]

Extremely disappointed in what I saw today. To be honest, I paid the price of admission mainly to watch Kapanen and Virtanen so I was closely watching each of their shifts.

The overall impression I got from Virtanen's play was one of "indifference". He clearly didn't care to play today. Shift after shift he camped up behind the play (even as the Marlies were on the attack for the majority of the shifts he took) waiting for a pass that never came. To be honest, it looked like his teammates chose not to pass to him but really he was just completely out of position more often than not.

I doubt he played more than 12 minutes - there were 6-8 minute chunks in the first and second period where I didn't see him out at all (not sure if he went to the dressing room, or was benched, or was plain tired).

His conditioning seems abysmal - he was always the first person off his line to make a change, on a couple of occasions even leaving his linemates in the offensive zone and heading back to the bench mid-shift.

I also felt he was a couple of steps behind the play physically as the 2-3 hits he attempted came late after the play had already progressed.

I believe he had one good play in the entire game when he mishandled a pass in front of the net, circled around and took a shot from the other side after no one challenged him on the perimeter. I also recall one PP shift (on the second unit) when he had a decent point shot.

Was this the impression of him on TV as well? Didn't look like the Jake of old, and although he wasn't the worst player on the ice he showed absolutely nothing.

He still has time but I hope he shows some real improvement in the next couple of months...

Thank you for your report, sounds like more of what we've been witness too in Vancouver this year. He's an out of shape entitled brat who needs to stay down in Utica for the rest of this season, and maybe next, until he starts earning his ice . Again thank-you for your work here, really helpful . Cheers.

 

[StIllmatic]

Extremely disappointed in what I saw today. To be honest, I paid the price of admission mainly to watch Kapanen and Virtanen so I was closely watching each of their shifts.

The overall impression I got from Virtanen's play was one of "indifference". He clearly didn't care to play today. Shift after shift he camped up behind the play (even as the Marlies were on the attack for the majority of the shifts he took) waiting for a pass that never came. To be honest, it looked like his teammates chose not to pass to him but really he was just completely out of position more often than not.

I doubt he played more than 12 minutes - there were 6-8 minute chunks in the first and second period where I didn't see him out at all (not sure if he went to the dressing room, or was benched, or was plain tired).

His conditioning seems abysmal - he was always the first person off his line to make a change, on a couple of occasions even leaving his linemates in the offensive zone and heading back to the bench mid-shift.

I also felt he was a couple of steps behind the play physically as the 2-3 hits he attempted came late after the play had already progressed.

I believe he had one good play in the entire game when he mishandled a pass in front of the net, circled around and took a shot from the other side after no one challenged him on the perimeter. I also recall one PP shift (on the second unit) when he had a decent point shot.

Was this the impression of him on TV as well? Didn't look like the Jake of old, and although he wasn't the worst player on the ice he showed absolutely nothing.

He still has time but I hope he shows some real improvement in the next couple of months...

He needs to completely reinvent his game and change his mindset. I hope he spends the season down there.

 

[TMLeafs18]

He is my least favourite player because of the garbage he pulled at the WJC. Its bad but I always associate him with a bad attitude and poor play from that tournament. I feel bad for Vancouver fans I remember liking him before the draft because of his ability to mix it up while being a stud offensively. Kinda thought of him and tkachuk in the same mold because of the way they could impact a game (even though they are vastly different players on the ice). Oh well though it looks like you guys got a steal in Boeser.

 

[Get North]

I'd cut the kid a lot more slack (and I think I've cut him a lot as I've only turned on him over the last couple of weeks) if everything about him off the ice indicated he was a great kid, 100% committed to his pro career.
That's not the vibe I'm getting.

Yes, you're right. You can write off those 3 assists in 18 AHL games as not really being a fair indicator of his play.

However, if you look at the kids career since being drafted, there's a pattern of failure/disappointment that is hard to overlook.

Disappointing final season in the WHL.
Disappointing NHL camps.
Disappointing World Juniors.
Disappointing in the AHL.
Disappointing in the NHL.
Off ice issues (reading between the lines of what the Sedins and Burrows said last season, and based on coach Willie D's comments)

The lone bright spot was a spell of decent to strong play post World Juniors. The production wasn't necessarily there, but he looked like he could prove a lot of people wrong.

...and then he shows up this season and actually looks worse than the player we saw last season.

What I'm trying to say is that those 18 AHL games are all spread out and doesn't mean that's how he has performed this year. One stint was when he was 18, another stint when he was 19, and another when he is 20. He was a different player then to now, so it's not fair to combine all those games. I think he played well at the 2015 World Juniors, he was a physical beast, and intimidating for sure. There's a highlight pack that makes you think he could be one of the most exciting players to watch in the NHL if he could translate that.

They are some positives, he does have talent, and even if he doesn't have the hockey sense, he can still be a great player. He can skate well, he can shoot hard, he has good size and can hit. I think Virtanen just needs to realize that he's not as good as a 6th overall pick right now and doesn't realize that every night he has to give a good effort. He doesn't have to go every night and have a Bobby Baun broken leg effort, but he just has to finish his checks, backcheck, and fight for puck battles. If he does that, he'll get back in the NHL.

 

[JA]

Extremely disappointed in what I saw today. To be honest, I paid the price of admission mainly to watch Kapanen and Virtanen so I was closely watching each of their shifts.

The overall impression I got from Virtanen's play was one of "indifference". He clearly didn't care to play today. Shift after shift he camped up behind the play (even as the Marlies were on the attack for the majority of the shifts he took) waiting for a pass that never came. To be honest, it looked like his teammates chose not to pass to him but really he was just completely out of position more often than not.

I doubt he played more than 12 minutes - there were 6-8 minute chunks in the first and second period where I didn't see him out at all (not sure if he went to the dressing room, or was benched, or was plain tired).

His conditioning seems abysmal - he was always the first person off his line to make a change, on a couple of occasions even leaving his linemates in the offensive zone and heading back to the bench mid-shift.

I also felt he was a couple of steps behind the play physically as the 2-3 hits he attempted came late after the play had already progressed.

I believe he had one good play in the entire game when he mishandled a pass in front of the net, circled around and took a shot from the other side after no one challenged him on the perimeter. I also recall one PP shift (on the second unit) when he had a decent point shot.

Was this the impression of him on TV as well? Didn't look like the Jake of old, and although he wasn't the worst player on the ice he showed absolutely nothing.

He still has time but I hope he shows some real improvement in the next couple of months...

The footage here characterizes what he looked like all month with the Canucks.



Thanks for your insights and for taking the time to check out Virtanen's game live.

 

[Balls Mahoney]

Why are the Canucks so bad at drafting my dudes?

My entire existence as a Canucks fan aside from the Gillis years has been depressing.

 

[Brock Radunske]

Thank you for your report, sounds like more of what we've been witness too in Vancouver this year. He's an out of shape entitled brat who needs to stay down in Utica for the rest of this season, and maybe next, until he starts earning his ice . Again thank-you for your work here, really helpful . Cheers.

This.
There is zero harm in him staying in the AHL until he is 22 or 23. Look what Detroit used to do. The worst thing you can do is rush a player who isn't ready.
With his skillset, he's at least going to be Evander Kane (on ice) and possibly more. Probably just needs an ego check and some help.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

This.
There is zero harm in him staying in the AHL until he is 22 or 23. Look what Detroit used to do. The worst thing you can do is rush a player who isn't ready.
With his skillset, he's at least going to be Evander Kane (on ice) and possibly more. Probably just needs an ego check and some help.

Umm, Evander Kane was an elite power forward for a few years. He scored 30 goals in his draft +3 season, whereas Virtanen is struggling in the minors. Kane's career average pace is that of a 25-25 player.

I would definitely not say that Jake Virtanen will be 'at least' as good as Evander Kane. Frankly, that's probably his ceiling at this point.

 

[Mad Brills*]

As I said yesterday, he can still be a decent player while being a bust for where he was picked.

 

[Brock Radunske]

Umm, Evander Kane was an elite power forward for a few years. He scored 30 goals in his draft +3 season, whereas Virtanen is struggling in the minors. Kane's career average pace is that of a 25-25 player.

I would definitely not say that Jake Virtanen will be 'at least' as good as Evander Kane. Frankly, that's probably his ceiling at this point.

I don't mean the fluke season Kane. I mean the real Evander Kane.
A big, gritty 3rd liner winger (who can play up in the line) with excellent north/south speed and a hard wrister. 30-40 point producing and a terror on the forecheck.

 

[Marc the Habs Fan]

Would not be shocked if Virtanen is viewing this AHL stint as some sort of temporary move before he's back in the show in a few weeks.

Soon reality will hit if he keeps playing this poorly.

Canucks should keep him down there the whole season and probably even start him down there next season.

 

[DeltaSwede]

Why are the Canucks so bad at drafting my dudes?

My entire existence as a Canucks fan aside from the Gillis years has been depressing.

WHAT.

Drafting since Benning has taken over has been really solid and Gillis was absolutely trash at drafting other than Horvat and Hutton. Horvat he gave up Schneider for.

Edit: seen your username.

 

[LeafGrief]

Would not be shocked if Virtanen is viewing this AHL stint as some sort of temporary move before he's back in the show in a few weeks.

Soon reality will hit if he keeps playing this poorly.

Canucks should keep him down there the whole season and probably even start him down there next season.

It's disappointing that his attitude seems to have gone so sour. He needs a real "come to jesus" talk from the coaching staff. It's okay to struggle, but being a problem child is how careers get buried

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

I don't mean the fluke season Kane. I mean the real Evander Kane.
A big, gritty 3rd liner winger (who can play up in the line) with excellent north/south speed and a hard wrister. 30-40 point producing and a terror on the forecheck.

Aside from his 18 year old rookie season, Evander Kane has never been on pace for less than 40 points over a full season. His 30 goal 57 point season wasn't a fluke season. He followed up that season with 33p in 48gp and 41p in 63gp season (56 and 53 point pace respectively).

He's a career 25 goal 50 point player. That's literally his average pace over his career.

Just last season he had 20g and 35p in 65 games. That's a 25g 44p pace, despite coming back from injury on a low scoring Buffalo team.

To say Virtanen will at least be that good is not only ridiculous, it's borderline hilarious. You're both severely underrating Kane and severely overrating Virtanen.

Even claiming he will 'at least' a 30-40 point winger is a huge reach.

 

[Lehkonen4Calder]

I don't mean the fluke season Kane. I mean the real Evander Kane.
A big, gritty 3rd liner winger (who can play up in the line) with excellent north/south speed and a hard wrister. 30-40 point producing and a terror on the forecheck.

How can it be a fluke if he's career average is 25-25 in 400+ games? I know Kane is hated arround here but he's still a decent top 6 player. At this point Virtanen would be lucky to end up as good as him.

 

[Neil Hamburger]

I don't know if Virtanen has the right stuff to cut it in the NHL.

 

[Love]

WHAT.

Drafting since Benning has taken over has been really solid and Gillis was absolutely trash at drafting other than Horvat and Hutton. Horvat he gave up Schneider for.

Edit: seen your username.

Has it though? His two most important picks have arguably been huge mistakes. It's too early to tell on Juolevi but most would say not taking Tkachuk was a mistake.

 

[HasbeenHallzy]

I'm almost ready to call him Bustanen....

 

[Huggy43]

I've personally never seen a prospect this badly criticized "by other fans" really. I don't get this, it's like they want to make us feel bad about a wasted pick maybe? when in the past, many top 10 picks don't work out, Nikita Filatov 6th overall, Bret Connolly 6thoverall, Rico Fata 5th overall, Daniek Tkachuk, Alex Burmistrov 10th, Nail Yakupov 1st overall. Scott Glenni (8th overall) zach Hamil (8th overall)

Personally, I hope does well. If not, there's nothing we can do, just like the other players I just mentioned, sometimes it just doesn't work out for whatever reason. It's like beating a dead horse right now, and this is currently Vancouver's problem, no one elses.

1 5 NY Islanders Michael Dal Colle L Oshawa Generals [OHL]
1 6 Vancouver Jake Virtanen R Calgary Hitmen [WHL] 65 7 7 14 47 2016-17
1 7 Carolina Haydn Fleury

.... its not like Michael Dal Colle or Haydrn Fleury is turning heads right now too....... you guys want to comment on (missing on out Nylander, those were the other 3 teams that passed up on Nylander/Ehlers.

just another day in the life as a Canuck fan on main boards...

 

[M2Beezy]

Is there nothing or noone to talk some sense into this idiot? He obvi cant figure nothing out himself. Hes done. Trade him for a 5th rounder. Anything. What a waste of a 6 overall pick

 

[Aceboogie]

My god ahaha. the last 3 parts are tough to read. His development is really being butchered. Hard to tell if it was a bad pick or just horrible development