Russians in the NHL 2018/19

Discussion in 'Russia' started by Atas2000, Aug 23, 2018.

  1. Atas2000 Registered User

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    Barkov's parents in the first place had all the choices and he's had them himself too. If he wanted he could have chosen to represent whatever country he'd like.
     
  2. MaxV Registered User

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    Playing in Russia in the 90s?

    Some choice.
     
  3. Atas2000 Registered User

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    What? He is 1995 born? Has he played as a toddler? Then he truly is special:sarcasm:

    Especially with who his father is he's had all the chances in the world to play whereever.
     
  4. MaxV Registered User

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    I meant his dad. His father moved to play in Finland in 1995 and Alex grew up there.

    Why would he leave an environment that's comfortable, familiar and obviously beneficial for his development to go to an unfamiliar place?

    He would be doing the same thing that all of these Russian players are when they move to CHL.
     
  5. Atas2000 Registered User

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    Yeah, absolutely agree, BUT why would a russian kid play for Finnland then? I do not care where or how they learn to play and obviously kids of hockey parents in particular often have an illustrous biography geography. I know that.
     
  6. MaxV Registered User

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    I could be wrong, but I believe he wanted to represent Russia, IIHF didn't let him.
     
  7. Kiekkofani Registered User

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    Barkov born '95 in Tampere, Finland, grew up in Tampere and has lived his entire life in Tampere prior moving to NHL. He made his way to Finland's Junior national teams, later on into seniors.
     
  8. Atas2000 Registered User

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    Being born and growing up on Mars would he be a Martian? Obviously it was a family without culture and honouring the heritage. Very "modern". And only because something is in order legally and accepted by the crowd I don't have to like it. But it's not like I am going to campaign to have Barkovs tarred and feathered. I don't care enough.
     
  9. Atas2000 Registered User

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    from: Хоккей. Александр Барков: Русский я или финн? Наверное, где-то посередине

    I give it to him, he was 15. Anyway his parents I blame more for bringing him up that way. His father also stated that Russia had never invited his son to play for the NT which clearly was a lie as you can read in the article posted. Obviously if anybody on the family gave it a thought he could have played for Russia. His father is a turd.

    And for what it's worth I at the same age also lived abroad. A thought would never have come to me to have any other citizenship let alone to represent another country in sports. That is why from my POV I understand how it goes and just do not agree. I've seen and known a lot of kids with all the different heritage. It is way different when your parents are from different backgrounds. As Barkov stated himself his whole relatives are from Novosibirsk and are russian though.

    Anyway he has been brought into this thread and he shouldn't have been. It's about Russians in the NHL.
     
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  10. MaxV Registered User

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    I'm confused. I thought IIHF rules were that you need to live and play in a country for 3 years to represent it.
     
  11. Caser @RUSProspects

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    It was 2 years in any age iirc, Barkov-sr. is just not very smart at it.


    Anyway, Kucherov is doing some crazy stuff, Ovechkin and Malkin are hitting milestones again and we're discussing Barkov. :shakehead
     
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  12. Atas2000 Registered User

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    You mix it up a bit. The rule only applies if you change citizenship. Then you have to play in your new country's championship for those years before you are allowed to represent the new country internationally. That is exactly how it works for Barys Canadians. Technically they play in Kazachstan anyway and obviously the IIHF approves KHL play for Barys as playing in Kazachstan. Thus they can right away play for Kazachstan if they get a citizenship. Otherwise they'd really have to move to Kazachstan and play there for years first.

    Same for Barkov(purely academical) if he decided to play for Russia now he could do so only after playing in Russia for years. So even if he had the burning desire which he does not it would be rather complicated. But if he had decided to play for Russia right away as a teenager he just needed to put the Russia jersey on.
     
  13. TomB Registered User

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    https://www.iihf.com/IIHFMvc/media/Downloads/Statutes/2018-2022-IIHF-Statutes-and-Bylaws.pdf

    Not true.

    Rule 4.2.1: "A male player who has two legal citizenships or more, or has changed his citizenship or has acquired or surrendered a citizenship and wants to participate for the first time in an IIHF Championship and/or an Olympic competition or in qualifications to these competitions, then in order to play for his country of choice the player must:
    (a) prove that he has (i) participated in the competitions within his country of choice on a consistent basis, over at least 16 consecutive months (480 days) and during two hockey seasons after his 10th birthday (ii) resided in his country of choice during that period and (iii) neither transferred to another country nor played ice hockey for a team registered or located within any other country during that period; and
    (b) if the country of his choice is one to which the player has transferred then he must have had an international transfer that was approved by the IIHF and dated at least 16 months (480 days) prior to his proposed participation."
     
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  14. Caser @RUSProspects

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    Exactly, so in short you can assume that practically in any case you need to have 2 seasons (in a row) of hockey in Russia to be able to represent it except, of course, the case with previously representing other country in the IIHF event - then you need 4 years in a row.

    That's why Barkov and Malgin couldn't play for Russia even if they wouldn't have represented their current countries unless they'd went to Russia for couple of years. Btw, that's also why Georgiev couldn't play for Bulgaria even if he really would want it.
     
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  15. Atas2000 Registered User

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    Okay, guys, you are right. Still, if he wanted it...

    I just don't want to further the Barkov discussion because as I mentioned I don't think it belongs here.
     
  16. Atas2000 Registered User

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    Time to think about WHC.

    Looks like available players at the end of regular season will be:

    -Players that should be locks:

    Dadonov - Anisimov(because center depth)

    Provorov - Zadorov (stay healthy this time. both of you!)

    -Players that might get an invite... or not:

    Buchnevich(hate to say it, but this season doesn't make him a lock in my book), Namestnikov(see Anisimov), Kovalchuk(not likely).

    -Longshots I'd go with:

    Yakovlev, Lyubushkin, Barbashev at least for camp. Barbashev could be a good 4th liner.

    ... and not go with:

    Goldobin

    -Bold move:

    Gurianov. I am most of the time against picking AHLers, but he might be worth a look.


    Possible 1st round exits:

    Svechnikov(sorry, Carolina, it's not the regular season. even if they make it into the playoffs.)

    The hilarious NHL playoff formula is just great:sarcasm: We might see WSH, PIT, CAR, CBJ clash in the first round. We will actually at least one pair of them. And one of the three latter will draw Tampa if Montreal does not go on a tear and catch'em with their pants down.

    Time for Malkin to do something for his country again;).

    Also pulling for Boston. I grew to dislike Toronto for many reasons and I'd rather see Zaytsev and Ozhiganov on this side of the pond in May.

    So in a perfect world WSH, BOS and TBL advance and we get Svechnikov, Zaytsev, Ozghiganov, Panarin or Malkin.

    STL might meltdown easily, but I am a bit concerned with Tarasenko's recent injury. Maybe he should rest and heal. He needed long enough to get on track after the surgery.

    Radulov will be available probably, but the old grudges...

    Which brings me to my wishlist:

    Panarin - Malkin - Kaprizov

    Gusev - Shipachyov - Dadonov

    Kagarlitskiy - Anisimov/Namestnikov - Svechnikov

    Whoever are the 4th liners.

    HM: Buchnevich, Gurianov and from the KHL Grigorenko, Barabanov, Mikheev.


    Provorov - Zadorov
    Zaytsev - Ozhiganov
    Gavrikov - Medvedev
    Chudinov - Yelesin

    HM: Lyubuskin, Yakovlev, Antipin.
     
  17. MaxV Registered User

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    As much as I would like either OV or Kucherov to be available, I will be rooting for them to go as deep as possible in playoffs and one of them to lift the cup at the end.

    I think the legacy of their success in NHL is more important then WHC gold. Besides, OV already has WHC gold.
     
  18. Milos Krasic Ballin' in Poland

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    I apologize. This whole conversation started over Kiselevich who is a mediocre player who hasn’t even played in Winnipeg.

    And if Gurianov as an AHL player is the best Russian just on Dallas, how bad has Nichushkin’s career died? It’s honestly pretty sad. This guy represented (undeservingly) Russia at a best on best Olympics.
     
  19. Pavel Buchnevich AV AND GORTON OUT

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    @Atas2000, Namestnikov is not a center. He plays center about 5% of the time. Namestnikov struggled in a scoring role when he came over from Tampa Bay. He has no scoring ability. He was benefiting a lot in Tampa from playing with two of the best forwards in the league. He's done well in a defensive role this season. He's been one of the best PK'ers on the team this season. I think he'd do well in a 4th line winger role.

    I said last year that Buchnevich wasn't in form heading into the World Championships, and he might not play well. Thats what happened. Its the opposite this year. He's been the best player on the Rangers the second half of the season. His stats are very slightly down down this season due to a terrible start to the season where he was barely playing and the team is scoring less, but the coach has started to give him regular minutes the last few months because he's playing more of a NA-style now, and he's producing. No way he shouldn't be on this team. He's playing great hockey.

    I wonder if Georgiev gets the 3rd goalie slot behind the CSKA and SKA goalies or if Konovalov gets that slot. Second season in a row he's been an NHL caliber goalie. Aside from Vasilevskiy, he's the only Russian goalie in the NHL under 30. It'll all be moot if Columbus goes out early or Varlamov is picked, but Georgiev wouldn't be a bad option for this team.
     
  20. Atas2000 Registered User

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    Thanks for the input.

    I know Buch is somewhat resurgent lately, but he is a winger. If the russian team has a variety of choices I can see him being left off. It will depend on RW depth a lot. Namestnikov for all his deficiencies is still a trained center and could be used in the same role as in Tampa playing between two star wingers. And of course kill penaltiess too. The biggest trouble of team Russia is center depth. Out of the KHL only Shipachyov and the shadow of Datsyuk are worth mentioning. If Malkin isn't coming that leaves a glaring hole at C. Then Namestnikov is definitely an option as I expect Datsyuk to decline even if invited. And he should.

    For all the love for Georgiev because of the goalie depth he is barely close. Look:

    Vasilevskiy Bobrovskiy
    Healthy Varlamov
    Sorokin Shestyorkin

    Konovalov(because he is a starter)
    Khudobin Georgiev(both great backups, probably best backups in the NHL right now)
    Varlamov's groin

    That's the depth chart for now. And it's a pretty obvious one too.

    Vasilevskiy we hope to not see on this side of the Atlantic until July. Bob will probably decline understandably given his contract situation. Varlamov should not get invited because of his health issues. He's won it in 2012 already too. Met him, he is a great, humble guy, but his time as NT goalie should be over.

    All that still leaves Sorokin and Shestyorkin ahead of everybody else. So unless some freak injuries happen in the playoffs now they will start the Team Russia games in Slovakia.

    And Konovalov will probably be the 3rd goalie because he actuallly plays more and is a starter. Being a backup in the NHL mostly scratches goalies from NT charts.

    Going forward Georgiev will have a hard time cracking the lineup too because of the upcoming youth. We can't complain about goalie depth, but I understand that every athlete wishes to make that step to the higher stage and it can be tough on them. It is what it is, unless he lands a starting job he will be always on the outside looking in. That happens to athletes sometimes. If you look at russian women's figure skating right now it's a darwinist bloodbath, but you can't :help: it. The ones left off the team for major events are probably good enough to win there under some circumstances, but there are only so many spots and the others aren't worse either. And to add insult to injury the 14 y.o. are breaking all the records in juniors and will soon enter the stage and sweep everybody away. Drama and conspiracy theories among fans all the way. That's what sports are like sometimes, cruel.

    Georgiev should concentrate on his game for the Rangers for now. He has proven he can benefit from some unorthodox ways as his development history shows. Who knows how Shestyorkin's career unfolds? At the least Georgiev is comfortable and familiar with the organisation and will have an edge there. If they are both lights out the Rangers might make a good trade too.
     
  21. Atas2000 Registered User

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    Kiselevich is far from what people think of him in NA, except for the ones who actually saw him play. His biggest problem to date is being burried in the depth charts due to the fact that he is still an unproven Russian for the NHL. I'd have no problem with him being on the team. He's better than most KHL has to offer.

    The best Russian on Dallas just had a 3 point night again. It is still Radulov. Gurianov is still an intersting prospect while Nichushkin isn't anymore. He won't learn new tricks by now. Sad story of a guy who never worked on his weaknesses.
     
  22. Atas2000 Registered User

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    Let's see if McDavid is pro enough to play for his country. It looks like Team Germany is getting a healthy boost for the WHC too;). If I was a german hockey fan I would be all over those tickets. I want an interesting tournament even though I will not be attending this time.
     
  23. Milos Krasic Ballin' in Poland

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    Yes, Kiselevich is unproven in NA and he’s just too old to be given a real shot. NHL teams see no real upside with him. He’s already 30. Basically his shot was to establish himself in Florida, but from what I’ve read Boughner just was not a fan.
     
  24. Fantomas Registered User

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    Another disappointing season for Russian defensemen. The biggest hopefuls, Provorov and Sergachev seemingly made no progress.
     
  25. Atas2000 Registered User

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    Looking at their both age... don't care for now. I don't expect defencemen to be Hedman at 19-20. They both have even taken a step back, but that's the process. I am worroed about Provorov's usage. He plays too much for my taste. Being burdened with carrying a NHL D on his back might take away from some learning time he still needs.

    Anyway, eager to see him in NT uniform.
     

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