Olympics: Russia Roster Discussion (Roster in post 1)

[Fantomas]

I think they can still win gold

They won't.

 

[BMann]

Znaroks is an utterly useless piece of garbage. But so is Tretiak and his cronies. They could learn from the fencing team as what to do to improve standards. Shameful performance, appalling discipline, lack of team work and laziness. You don't win games on paper. He is so useless a coach he knew he couldn't rely on a superstar to bail him out or indeed meld together a team of individuals. Is there a system in place within Russian hockey to train coaches ? The whole sports infrastructure within Russia needs looking at. From provision of facilities to everyone, to talent identification, to top level coaching for the best juniors and so and so forth. There was a reason why the Soviet Union was so dominant in many sports and also innovative as well. It's pathetic to see the decline. And Putin can take a hike too. All words and no action. What is emblematic in the leadership occurs across all fields.

 

[Yakushev72]

I don't agree. I think that we will win, not even Sweden has such a good roster as we have and Znarok, well, who likes him, but in the end I frankly think he's not a bad coach. Not the best, of course, and he is a very strange fellow in any case.. But the situation is worrysome anyways because it will mean that we'll keep on having no KHL for another 4 years as this C/SKA travesty will continue.

This officially ends the happy nonsense that a Gold Medal will be an easy walk in the park because of inferior opposition. Or that Koshechkin or Nesterov or Prokhorkin will lead the way to glory! No one fears Russia, because they know from experience that if they stay close, Russia is just a group of individuals skating around, none of whom will get their nose bloody in front of the net, and they will eventually break down defensively, and open the path to victory.

Russia totally dominated the first period, but then let in 2 incredibly soft goals out of nowhere so that there was nothing to show for their efforts. You could almost see the air leaving their collapsing balloon, and it was just a matter of time until Slovakia finished the job. Should we start discussing the rosters for the WC in May?

 

[jj cale]

This officially ends the happy nonsense that a Gold Medal will be an easy walk in the park because of inferior opposition. Or that Koshechkin or Nesterov or Prokhorkin will lead the way to glory! No one fears Russia, because they know from experience that if they stay close, Russia is just a group of individuals skating around, none of whom will get their nose bloody in front of the net, and they will eventually break down defensively, and open the path to victory.

Russia totally dominated the first period, but then let in 2 incredibly soft goals out of nowhere so that there was nothing to show for their efforts. You could almost see the air leaving their collapsing balloon, and it was just a matter of time until Slovakia finished the job. Should we start discussing the rosters for the WC in May?

It's ONE game, it's not the end of the world.

It's most likely the best thing that could have happened to them as it will wake them up to the realities of the situation here.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Maybe don't start your fourth best goalie because he's played more pro games than the other three.

 

[Alessandro Seren Rosso]

This officially ends the happy nonsense that a Gold Medal will be an easy walk in the park because of inferior opposition. Or that Koshechkin or Nesterov or Prokhorkin will lead the way to glory! No one fears Russia, because they know from experience that if they stay close, Russia is just a group of individuals skating around, none of whom will get their nose bloody in front of the net, and they will eventually break down defensively, and open the path to victory.

Russia totally dominated the first period, but then let in 2 incredibly soft goals out of nowhere so that there was nothing to show for their efforts. You could almost see the air leaving their collapsing balloon, and it was just a matter of time until Slovakia finished the job. Should we start discussing the rosters for the WC in May?

It's just one game, no need to panic. I don't even think they played that bad. A good kick in the arse for the first game may be a good lesson.

 

[Alessandro Seren Rosso]

Please explain what you are talking about?

I wish I could avoid thinking about it for my whole life.
Go on youtube and check the goals from the finland game.

 

[BlitzSnipe]

Znaroks is an utterly useless piece of garbage. But so is Tretiak and his cronies. They could learn from the fencing team as what to do to improve standards. Shameful performance, appalling discipline, lack of team work and laziness. You don't win games on paper. He is so useless a coach he knew he couldn't rely on a superstar to bail him out or indeed meld together a team of individuals. Is there a system in place within Russian hockey to train coaches ? The whole sports infrastructure within Russia needs looking at. From provision of facilities to everyone, to talent identification, to top level coaching for the best juniors and so and so forth. There was a reason why the Soviet Union was so dominant in many sports and also innovative as well. It's pathetic to see the decline. And Putin can take a hike too. All words and no action. What is emblematic in the leadership occurs across all fields.

Yes, I agree with your points. Something is going wrong with Russian hockey right now, whether it's youth development or the officials in charge, or a combination of those and other factors. We need a real professional to get Russian hockey back on track.

 

[Fantomas]

It's just one game, no need to panic. I don't even think they played that bad. A good kick in the arse for the first game may be a good lesson.

Firing Znarok now would be a good lesson.

 

[Fantomas]

Yes, I agree with your points. Something is going wrong with Russian hockey right now.

Yes, it is called capitalism.

 

[Alessandro Seren Rosso]

Firing Znarok now would be a good lesson.

For as much as I dislike Znarok, firing him wouldn't change too much. Especially if the next coach will be Kvartalnov, btw.
How many coaches did we fire? And nothing changed. The only good change was when we got Bykov.

 

[Alessandro Seren Rosso]

Yes, it is called capitalism.

Then why most of the top hockey nations are capitalists?

 

[Fantomas]

Then why most of the top hockey nations are capitalists?

Russia will never outcapitalist those capitalists. Not in their wildest dreams. They will stuff their pockets with money and put it all into a bank in Switzerland.

 

[Fantomas]

Someone should investigate why Znarok chose players from mostly two big market teams.

 

[Alessandro Seren Rosso]

Someone should investigate why Znarok chose players from mostly two big market teams.

What other teams should have picked? Moscow and Leningrad are the only "logic" choice if you try to reason from their POV

 

[Alessandro Seren Rosso]

Russia will never outcapitalist those capitalists.

Interesting use of verbs.
But still I guess that it has little to do with a single game's result.

 

[Fantomas]

What other teams should have picked? Moscow and Leningrad are the only "logic" choice if you try to reason from their POV

The best players should have been picked and it should have been made known to them that they would fight for the spots and have to earn them. Instead of being given spots and looking like deer in the headlights in their opening game.

This team is pure corruption. I hope they don't medal. I'm done.

 

[rydsta]

The best players should have been picked and it should have been made known to them that they would fight for the spots and have to earn them. Instead of being given spots and looking like deer in the headlights in their opening game.

This team is pure corruption. I hope they don't medal. I'm done.

The best players weren't picked? who else is there that wasn't chosen?

i'm not trying to argue, i'm genuinely curious. i'm not familiar with the KHL. I know Afinogenov and Andrei Markov are playing in Russia but don't know how good they are at this point.

 

[Fantomas]

The best players weren't picked? who else is there that wasn't chosen?

i'm not trying to argue, i'm genuinely curious. i'm not familiar with the KHL. I know Afinogenov and Andrei Markov are playing in Russia but don't know how good they are at this point.

The glaring miss for me is Tryamkin. But my point isn't that this roster is bad on paper, but rather that it was handpicked for Znarok's convenience and likely to provide maximum representation for two big-money teams.

 

[Yakushev72]

It's just one game, no need to panic. I don't even think they played that bad. A good kick in the arse for the first game may be a good lesson.

I was responding to your post where you blew off my comment that a Gold Medal was far from a done deal, so to speak. You justified your remarks by saying, in effect, that the other rosters were pure crap, and that they could therefore back into a Gold Medal. While today's loss certainly did not mathematically eliminate Russia from contention, it certainly did lay to rest the notion that other countries won't be able to beat them. The path to success involves staying close to Russia, physically dominating them (all the little guys), taking advantage of frequent defensive breakdowns, and blocking up the middle in your defensive zone to force the Russian forwards to the outside. Then when the score is tied and you suddenly jump into the lead, count on clueless coaching to fail to provide the Russians with a way to bounce back. The first period today is a case in point, where the Russians totally dominated, then gave up 2 bad goals out of nowhere, which in turn deflated the whole team. It could surely happen again.

 

[Gerin]

The best players weren't picked? who else is there that wasn't chosen?

i'm not trying to argue, i'm genuinely curious. i'm not familiar with the KHL. I know Afinogenov and Andrei Markov are playing in Russia but don't know how good they are at this point.

Markov would be better than a few D picked, Tryamkin as previous mentioned. Afinogenov would not make this team (old age catching him). Names like Khokhlachyov and Tkachyov's are some that I can think of on the top of my head that would be an improvement over taking 4th line players because you picked majority of the rosters of 2 teams. I think they have what, 15 players from SKA St Petersburgh..

 

[Bouboumaster]

It's a two-teams Team Russia. And Markov doesn't play on any of these teams. It's as simple as this.

Wtf?

Why would they do that?

Like, it's their best chance to win it all in years, they can pick from all the goddamn KHL and choose to pick from only two teams?
Wow.

 

[Alessandro Seren Rosso]

I was responding to your post where you blew off my comment that a Gold Medal was far from a done deal, so to speak. You justified your remarks by saying, in effect, that the other rosters were pure crap, and that they could therefore back into a Gold Medal.

Other countries' rosters are definitely not on par with Team Russia roster. That's a fact. In spite of Znarok's failing master plan, scroll through the rosters and you will not see a single team that, names-wise, matches our roster.

While today's loss certainly did not mathematically eliminate Russia from contention, it certainly did lay to rest the notion that other countries won't be able to beat them. The path to success involves staying close to Russia, physically dominating them (all the little guys), taking advantage of frequent defensive breakdowns, and blocking up the middle in your defensive zone to force the Russian forwards to the outside. Then when the score is tied and you suddenly jump into the lead, count on clueless coaching to fail to provide the Russians with a way to bounce back. The first period today is a case in point, where the Russians totally dominated, then gave up 2 bad goals out of nowhere, which in turn deflated the whole team. It could surely happen again.

Of course all what you said is true, but after one game it's a bit early to jump to conclusions. I guess the game was lost because they jumped to conclusions after being up by two goals after a few minutes.

 

[Alessandro Seren Rosso]

Wtf?

Why would they do that?

Like, it's their best chance to win it all in years, they can pick from all the goddamn KHL and choose to pick from only two teams?
Wow.

Well, mostly they before put all those players there, and then picked the roster, rather than the opposite.
Not that it makes sense, though.

 

[BMann]

Someone should investigate why Znarok chose players from mostly two big market teams.

I am pretty certain as Yakushev said before because he is incapable of melding together players from a number of teams. He is hoping the chemistry will emerge out of thin air. That is no way to coach. A good coach examines games and sees what players are the best fits for each line in complementing each other.

And as far as the league goes. The best kids need to be formed into regional representatives and given a central contract with the RHF. Each kid has to be given the opportunities by law within KHL teams so that they play against seniors and gain experience. As far as I can see when I look at the KHL, the basketball, football, volleyball and handball leagues there are far too many spots given to overseas players on ludicrous wages.

The money for Sochi and this World Cup (billions) should have gone into grass roots sports development and rejuvenating facilities across Russia from small towns to the biggest cities and bringing back the huge number of coaches in many sports who went abroad in the disaster of the nineties. And where required as in fencing bring in the best coaches from abroad and learn from the best and improve upon those methods. It seems to me that a lot of the mental toughness of Russian athletes has also disappeared. They are fragile. Maybe because the coaching is not tough enough anymore. How the womens handball team collapsed at the World Cup is indicative.

And when Alessandro says it's only one game that is a very poor attitude to have. The aim should be as it used to be with the Red Machine to win every game. Win it convincingly and with style. It makes my stomach churn seeing how Russia has been so disappointing in the recent past in many disciplines it used to dominate. Be it chess, artistic gymnastics, ice skating, volleyball etc etc.