WJC: Russia at the 2011 WJC

[Zine]

Telegin probably would've made the team if he wasn't injured, but that wouldn't help this team enough to make them contenders.

They don't have a team and they don't have a coach. It pains me to say that as a Russian fan.

Maybe.

Imo, the biggest problems are defense (obvious) and playing a full 60 minutes. Sure there are adjustments to be made, but this team just skated stride-for-stride with Canada and Sweden for 2 periods apiece but reverted back to typical stupid tendencies for a period vs each....which ultimately cost them both games.

 

[wings5]

=Zine;29832814Excuses.

Yakupov is a late 1993 - I don't care what his stats are, that's just waaaayy too young for WJC level....especially for an upper tier team like Russia

How is 17 years old way too young? Talented players usually find a way to shine. Underagers are taken by country's every year and many play a large role, 16 years old maybe yes not everyone can be Ovechkin Crosby, but 17 years old is not a big deal. Wasn't Filatov 17 when he scored 4 g 5a 9 pts in 7 games, wern't Voynov and Chudinov 17 when they played large roles and in those years it was even a more talented age group so there were more options. This year I could understand if those 19 year olds were capable and abundant in number but they're not. Yakupov's and Khoklachev's skills wouldn't hurt anymore than whatever Panarin or Bocharov or anyone in that crap bottom 6 would give.

 

[cska78]

How is 17 years old way too young? Talented players usually find a way to shine. Underagers are taken by country's every year and many play a large role, 16 years old maybe yes not everyone can be Ovechkin Crosby, but 17 years old is not a big deal. Wasn't Filatov 17 when he scored 4 g 5a 9 pts in 7 games, wern't Voynov and Chudinov 17 when they played large roles and in those years it was even a more talented age group so there were more options. This year I could understand if those 19 year olds were capable and abundant in number but they're not. Yakupov's and Khoklachev's skills wouldn't hurt anymore than whatever Panarin or Bocharov or anyone in that crap bottom 6 would give.

I dunno why (roids?) Canadian Junior teams look like they are 25-26, but a normal developing body @ 17 is not ready to compete with the 19 year olds plain and simple.

 

[cska78]

Telegin probably would've made the team if he wasn't injured, but that wouldn't help this team enough to make them contenders.

They don't have a team and they don't have a coach. It pains me to say that as a Russian fan.

I am sick of you wining already, go root for Sweden and USA and stop "blowin up" my brain.

 

[Jussi]

I dunno why (roids?) Canadian Junior teams look like they are 25-26, but a normal developing body @ 17 is not ready to compete with the 19 year olds plain and simple.

North Americans mature physically much quicker than Europeans, plus they can pick the most matured ones from the largest pool in the world.

Oh and by the way, it's looking like Finland-Russia quarterfinal now.

 

[NHLHammerbound*]

At the risk of stereotyping, Russians go from one extreme to the other.

When they win a big game, their hockey develop program becomes the best in the world, bar none. When they lose, all is in total disarray from the grassroots/ infrastructure, to a pervasive decay of Russian society in general, yadda yadda... I seriously doubt things are ever that good or that bad.

Losing two games in a row , to Canada and Sweden no less, who may well be ( with all due respect to the Yanks ) the two best teams in this tourney, is NO DISGRACE, even for Russia. Admittedly, ur team played poorly in the 3rd vs Canada, and in the 1st vs. Tre Kronor. However, for two thirds of those games they looked pretty good.

NB* : I'm going partly by written accounts here, as I was only able to watch last nights RUS v SWE game, intermittently.

***

To me, this Russian squad seems quite talented and Still has a GOOD CHANCE to medal. They looked real good ( pre-tourney ) vs Q, OHL and Dub selects, and ( for a Russian jr team at least ) they also seemed to have a pretty decent coach, who showed NO SIGNS of becoming emotionally discombobulated when faced with adversity. Last years Russian coach, by comparison ( throwing his team captain under the bus, etc. ) was a joke. Harkening back to the Jr Summit series, Nemchinov was a joke too ... indeed I've never seen any team take sooo many ‘ too many men on the ice penalties'... But I digress.

I hope u don't throw ur current bench boss ( who also coached u to a silver in 2005, if I'm not mistaken ) under the bus, prematurely. The attitudinal problems associated with contemporary Russian hockey culture, and yes u do have them in spades, aren't gonna get fixed in a day.

Speaking of which, let's talk DEFENSE

***
Clearly, u Russians could do with better talent on D, BUT ...ur Team D, i.e. ur lack of willingness to engage physically, to backcheck, and to work hard in all three zones consistently are ur Biggest Problems IMO. Compare that with Team Sweden who, from what I saw last nite, back-checked like demons

& Let's harken back to the Canada game. Specifically, to that play where Cizikas controls the puck along the boards for 24 seconds ! Two Russians are standing on either side of him, yet neither one seems anxious to get his Nose dirty ? .

& How many times did a Russian win a race for the puck inside ur zone, in the 3rd period verse Canada? Damn few. That's not about talent. Again...That's ALL about Attitude !

I harken way back to 2006 U20 Gold game in Vancouver, and can still see Russian D men turning away from the corner , time after time, to avoid contact.. In a Gold Medal Game ???!!! Bad Attitude ad nauseam

I harken back to Vancouver OG and I can still see Malkin sulking, cause he cant skate thru the whole damn Canuck team, then refusing to back check after, inevitably, losing the puck. IF Malkin played for Canada, he'd be benched, then a team mate would take him aside and rattle his cage. That's called an ATTITUDE ADJUSTMENT !



***
One more thing. The Russian attack is too damn predictable. It lacks imagination. & that's been true for quite some time.

Too much of Russia's offense is predicated on the stretch pass. In short order, the opposition adjusts to this, clogs up the middle, and then these passes are either getting intercepted or else failing to click.

There's too much separation between forwards and D. Plus , how many times did you see one Russian forward foolishly thinking he's gonna beat three Kronors at the blue, last night, a la Malkin in the Olympics ?

Once upon a time u Russians were great innovators. Now, ur mired in the past.

***

Varying ur attack, inclusive of adding more dump n chase to ur repertoire wouldn't hurt. I saw Taresenko ( sp ? ) try this once last nite, and he actually won the race for the puck. Think about it...

PEACE OUT

 

[Alessandro Seren Rosso]

FrkPnn, good first post. I agree with most of it, although I don't agree with the dump and chase part. Such style doesnt really work with Russians

 

[DamonDRW]

everything is much more simple about all these Russian struggles. They simply do not have a reason to showcase their skills/willingness etc. People want to speculate about national pride of, for example, Canadians/US players. It is important, of course. However, making money is way more important for any hockey player in the world. Most of these Russians playing for our junior team clearly understands that they will get their couple of millions in the KHL anyway. It is almost guaranteed. For US/Canadian it is NHL with a good contract or AHL with 60000 per year. And think about competition! How many 16-20 years old players do you have in Canada and US combined? 5000? 15000? Only 50 of them will be playing in NHL. And only 10 will become multi-millionaires. That's why they would prefer to die on ice rather than show some laziness. Same with Swedish/Finnish players. They are all showcasing themselves.

 

[Zine]

To me, this Russian squad seems quite talented and Still has a GOOD CHANCE to medal. They looked real good ( pre-tourney ) vs Q, OHL and Dub selects, and ( for a Russian jr team at least ) they also seemed to have a pretty decent coach, who showed NO SIGNS of becoming emotionally discombobulated when faced with adversity. Last years Russian coach, by comparison ( throwing his team captain under the bus, etc. ) was a joke. Harkening back to the Jr Summit series, Nemchinov was a joke too ... indeed I've never seen any team take sooo many ‘ too many men on the ice penalties'... But I digress.


& Let's harken back to the Canada game. Specifically, to that play where Cizikas controls the puck along the boards for 24 seconds ! Two Russians are standing on either side of him, yet neither one seems anxious to get his Nose dirty ? .

& How many times did a Russian win a race for the puck inside ur zone, in the 3rd period verse Canada? Damn few. That's not about talent. Again...That's ALL about Attitude !

I harken way back to 2006 U20 Gold game in Vancouver, and can still see Russian D men turning away from the corner , time after time, to avoid contact.. In a Gold Medal Game ???!!! Bad Attitude ad nauseam

I harken back to Vancouver OG and I can still see Malkin sulking, cause he cant skate thru the whole damn Canuck team, then refusing to back check after, inevitably, losing the puck. IF Malkin played for Canada, he'd be benched, then a team mate would take him aside and rattle his cage. That's called an ATTITUDE ADJUSTMENT !



***
One more thing. The Russian attack is too damn predictable. It lacks imagination. & that's been true for quite some time.

Too much of Russia's offense is predicated on the stretch pass. In short order, the opposition adjusts to this, clogs up the middle, and then these passes are either getting intercepted or else failing to click.

There's too much separation between forwards and D. Plus , how many times did you see one Russian forward foolishly thinking he's gonna beat three Kronors at the blue, last night, a la Malkin in the Olympics ?

Once upon a time u Russians were great innovators. Now, ur mired in the past.

***

Varying ur attack, inclusive of adding more dump n chase to ur repertoire wouldn't hurt. I saw Taresenko ( sp ? ) try this once last nite, and he actually won the race for the puck. Think about it...

PEACE OUT

Agreed.

Like I posted earlier, the art of 'taking a hit' has been lost the last 10-15 years.....and, to a degree, coincides with a lack of desire.

I remember Tootoo plowing throw Team Russia in 2003 yet it was ineffective. Russia wasn't rattled and basically out-willed Canada coming from behind to win gold. Same in 2002 coming back from 2 goals down. Could you see that now? Actually, we saw glimpses of it during the Super Series....that team wasn't physically intimidated (many of same players on this WJC).


Disagree about dumping and chasing.....not needed in Russian hockey; at least not on any consistent basis. However, even if implemented, you still need to establish that physicality first and foremost, or else you're just dumping the puck in and giving it away. One step at a time.

 

[Dosing]

I was wondering the whole game why russia keeps playing like that, no forecheck allowing swedes to rush into zone over and over again, passing up for breakways getting their only chances on the oppositions misstakes.
Why cant they see it's ineffective?

 

[NHLHammerbound*]

Agreed.


I remember Tootoo plowing throw Team Russia in 2003 yet it was ineffective. Russia wasn't rattled and basically out-willed Canada coming from behind to win gold. Same in 2002 coming back from 2 goals down. Could you see that now? Actually, we saw glimpses of it during the Super Series....that team wasn't physically intimidated (many of same players on this WJC). .

If memory serves that 2003 team was coached by Mark Habschied ( sp ? ) and even though Tootoo was a Big Banger, that version of TC was UNDERSIZED, something which the TC braintrust later admitted was a mistake, and one which HAS NEVER been repeated. The other thing I recall from that Gold Medal Game was that we were OUT-COACHED...Which is something I've certainly never seen since, in a World Jr Canada v Russia game. That 2003 Russian coach shortened his bench in the 3rd, a strategem which worked to perfection. Our coach failed to respond in kind, which in hindsight probably cost us the game.

We lost but We Learned...Indeed Hockey Canada's braintrust seems highly adept at LEARNing from their Mistakes...Russia's ( cough, cough ) braintrust... NOT SO MUCH

 

[Yakushev72]

Yakushev72

FrnkPnn,

You used the preface, "at the risk of stereotyping," rightly so. Going back to the 1970's, Canadian commentators have repeated over and over again the same criticisms of Russians that you offer. Stereotypes are almost never accurate, because stereotypes assign attributes to an entire group (e.g., the Russian people) that are supposedly exhibited by an individual member of the group (e.g., Malkin). Malkin, by your account, had a selfish shift, but you spoke of his behavior as being Russian rather than being Malkin. And then you suggest that if Malkin were a Canadian, and showed selfish attributes on a single skating shift, his Canadian teammates would have taken him aside and beaten the crap out of him. I think that is more self-flattery than reality, because I have never heard of a single instance when Sid Crosby or Steven Stamkos have been beaten up by their Canadian teammates.

Even though the things you are saying about Russians are not complementary, Russians understand that Canadians hold them in higher esteem than any other hockey nation. When the Czechs or Swedes or Slovaks lose a couple of hockey games, you don't see the Canadian fans taunting them. They only appear to taunt the Russians. I believe the reason is that Canadians remember when the Soviets/Russians beat their very best. Russia has a population of 140 million, and has the potential to mass produce hockey talent, once certain things get fixed. The Canadians understand that, somewhere down the road, Russian hockey will re-emerge, and may overtook Canada when that happens.

 

[member 30781]

I am sick of you wining already, go root for Sweden and USA and stop "blowin up" my brain.

Since when did speaking the truth become whining?

 

[Yakushev72]

Yakushev72

Alessandro,

I knew there was some factor that has contributed to recent negative developments. Medvedev may very well be that factor. As an Oligarch, he is in complete control of the Russian hockey apparatus. I don't know the specific details, but when someone takes total control of an organization and its resources, and things start going wrong, its usually their fault.

 

[MrGeno101]

Seriously russia still produce elite talent and will continue to do for a long time. yes they don't have been success in wjc in some year but remember team like sweden only have won the wjc one time but they still could win the olympics 94 and 06. And if you look at the talent from russia born 90 and earlier you can se player like loktionov, kulikov, filatov and burmistrov who already has playing game in NHL and tarasenko, kuznetsov, orlov, yakupov and grigorenko who look really promising. The only concern i can se are lack of elite defensemen from russia.

This year the russian team look more like a team then years before and i think they still can make medal round even though they lost first two game (against 2 gold medal candidate by the way)

 

[wings5]

North Americans mature physically much quicker than Europeans, plus they can pick the most matured ones from the largest pool in the world.

Oh and by the way, it's looking like Finland-Russia quarterfinal now.

I have noticed the same thing and asked the question recently, does anyone have an answer to why that is?

 

[Jussi]

I was wondering the whole game why russia keeps playing like that, no forecheck allowing swedes to rush into zone over and over again, passing up for breakways getting their only chances on the oppositions misstakes.
Why cant they see it's ineffective?

I think it was the head coach of Team Finland at this tournament that said in an article in Finnish hockey magazine Jääkiekkolehti, that "Russians excel (on junior levels) at skill, skating and physical side (ie.endurance). Luckily for the rest of us, they play passively, don't forecheck and can't handle hard forechecking."

 

[MOGiLNY]

So we may be 0-2 so far, but in the game against Sweden, we've failed to convert 100% chances and there were some unfortunate unlucky goals for us against Canada as well.

I'm going to be optimistic about this, and hopefully Bragin & Co. will work out the kinks and the Red Army will keep marching on.

We've got a game against Norway coming up and no offense to the Norwegians, but hopefully we have a field day with them. They are a mismatch by default and on top of that are going to be playing a 2nd game in two nights, have to be down on themselves after a 10-1 loss and plus, the Russian team should come out hungry after two straight losses.

Hopefully we can rebound against Norway, get out confidence back, get a good momentum going, then finish off the group stage on a strong note against the Czechs and off to the playoffs we go. Anything can happen in the playoffs and call me crazy, but I think we can go all the way here.

 

[Alessandro Seren Rosso]

Well all in all we can get to the semis. I think both Norway and Czech Republic are beatable by us and in the quarters we should face the Finns, I don't think they can beat us. Then we'll face Sweden, Canada or USA and so, barring we get there, we're screwed methinks

 

[Alessandro Seren Rosso]

http://allhockey.ru/news/89686/

Good but not enough, imho. What do you other Russian comrades think?

 

[Yakushev72]

Yakushev72

I'm optimistic. All we have to do is win today and tomorrow, and we are in the quarterfinals. The biggest thing is to just qualify. Once we are in the quarterfinals, we have an equal chance with all others who didn't get a first round bye. I'm basing my optimism on what I have seen from several Russian teams in the WJC in the past - start slow but then get much stronger as the tournament goes on. I didn't see the game, but by the posts I have read, the Russians played much stronger against Sweden than against Canada. Also, Sweden has been very dominant against Russia in recent years, so the fact that Russians put a lot of pressure on the Swedes, instead of the other way around, is, in my opinion, a very good sign.

 

[Peter25]

http://allhockey.ru/news/89686/

Good but not enough, imho. What do you other Russian comrades think?

This is good news. At least they are willing to allocate money to juniors now instead of just buying foreign imports to play in the KHL.

I hope the corruption stays out of this.

 

[Peter25]

Also, Sweden has been very dominant against Russia in recent years, so the fact that Russians put a lot of pressure on the Swedes, instead of the other way around, is, in my opinion, a very good sign.

Sweden's style of play is difficult for Russia for a few reasons.

Sweden likes to play "total hockey", meaning that they like to keep the possession of the puck as much as possible. They pass a lot back instead of dumping the puck in. And they can also forecheck aggressively to regain the possession of the puck on the opposing side's end of the rink.

Russia is not at it's best without the puck. Often the players don't know what to do if the opponent is able to control the puck for the most of the time. And Russian defensemen can be quite poor against aggressive forechecking.

This is why Russia is usually better against a less "puck-savvy" team like Finland. Finland rarely controls the game against Russia at men's level, but against Sweden Russia does not look as good.

 

[Zine]

If memory serves that 2003 team was coached by Mark Habschied ( sp ? ) and even though Tootoo was a Big Banger, that version of TC was UNDERSIZED, something which the TC braintrust later admitted was a mistake, and one which HAS NEVER been repeated. The other thing I recall from that Gold Medal Game was that we were OUT-COACHED...Which is something I've certainly never seen since, in a World Jr Canada v Russia game. That 2003 Russian coach shortened his bench in the 3rd, a strategem which worked to perfection. Our coach failed to respond in kind, which in hindsight probably cost us the game.

We lost but We Learned...Indeed Hockey Canada's braintrust seems highly adept at LEARNing from their Mistakes...Russia's ( cough, cough ) braintrust... NOT SO MUCH

Canada 2003 being undersized isn't the point; we still have every WJC up to around 2005 where Canada rarely intimidated Russian teams....at least on any consistent basis that is. The point is that Russian teams seemed to have lost that toughness in recent years.

 

[Yakushev72]

Yakushev72

Peter 25,

You're right! One thing I noticed in last year's Sweden game and this year's Canada game is that, instead of fighting for possession of the puck at the blue line, the Russian defense seemed to have a strategy of backing deep into their defensive zone and setting up a box, as if they were killing a power play. In both cases, that strategy failed miserably. If you willingly allow good puck handling teams like the Swedes and Canadians free possession of the puck down near the goal mouth, its just a matter of time before the pucks start flowing into the net. I don't understand that strategy.

On another matter, does anyone know a site where I can find streaming video of the upcoming Norway and Czech games? I have been unable to find a way to watch the games on the Net.