Russia and the lazy myth.

[WarriorofTime]

It's hardly an isolated incident.

Well that settles it. 5 time Rocket Richard winner and 3 time MVP Alexander Ovechkin is lazy.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Seguin was never ripped for being one-dimensional. I really don't know where you're getting that from....

From your own GM at the time of the trade:

http://www.weei.com/sports/boston/h.../closer-look-why-tyler-seguin-no-longer-bruin

“Usually what happens is guys get stronger, they get more mature, but they’re not going to change their style of play,†Chiarelli said. “When you ask if you can project that out of his game, you don’t project it out of his game. You just project the maturation physically that they become comfortable if they reach a level of strength and conditioning as they grow older that they can survive the physicality.â€

With that being said, Seguin was a strong kid. He did the BioSteel training in the offseason and showed up to each training camp ripped. So the Bruins didn’t see Seguin’s shortcomings as a strength issue or a physicality issue, but rather a compete level issue.

“It’s a general thought that this team has been built that there has to be a minimum level of compete and willingness to compete,†Chiarelli said. “It doesn’t mean you have to crash and bang. That’s the distinction. You just have to battle. In your own way, you’ve got to battle. That’s a prerequisite here.â€


Talks about Seguin having to change his style of play and calling out his compete level. Y'know, words you hear associated with a lot of Russian players who are labeled as soft and aren't competitive.

 

[Insomniac99]

Well that settles it. 5 time Rocket Richard winner and 3 time MVP Alexander Ovechkin is lazy.

Oh my mistake, i didnt realize the OP was talking about how all Russian players are terrible.

Oh...Wait...

Nope! He didnt. He addresses the fact that they're frequently called "lazy".

Being "lazy" and being "good" are not mutually exclusive traits. No one here is downplaying the skill of Russian players.

 

[Freudian]

North American stars who are a bit inconsistent don't get branded the same way. If Spezza or Ryan were Russian, they'd be talked about differently.

I don't think it's only Don Cherry, but the media lionizing Canadians for wanting it more and where the Cup is the most important thing in contrast to how Russians have been portrayed have led to some bizarre thinking among fans.

There are Russian players who have been very disappointing because they don't get the most out of their talent level (Zherdev, Filatov, Yashin) but the same goes for Canadian players (Stewart, Wolski, Daigle).

 

[HuskyBruinPride]

From your own GM at the time of the trade:

http://www.weei.com/sports/boston/h.../closer-look-why-tyler-seguin-no-longer-bruin

“Usually what happens is guys get stronger, they get more mature, but they’re not going to change their style of play,†Chiarelli said. “When you ask if you can project that out of his game, you don’t project it out of his game. You just project the maturation physically that they become comfortable if they reach a level of strength and conditioning as they grow older that they can survive the physicality.â€

With that being said, Seguin was a strong kid. He did the BioSteel training in the offseason and showed up to each training camp ripped. So the Bruins didn’t see Seguin’s shortcomings as a strength issue or a physicality issue, but rather a compete level issue.

“It’s a general thought that this team has been built that there has to be a minimum level of compete and willingness to compete,†Chiarelli said. “It doesn’t mean you have to crash and bang. That’s the distinction. You just have to battle. In your own way, you’ve got to battle. That’s a prerequisite here.â€


Talks about Seguin having to change his style of play and calling out his compete level. Y'know, words you hear associated with a lot of Russian players who are labeled as soft and aren't competitive.

Nothing about what Chiarelli said = one dimensional. You're really reaching.

 

[Regal]

North American stars who are a bit inconsistent don't get branded the same way. If Spezza or Ryan were Russian, they'd be talked about differently.

I don't think it's only Don Cherry, but the media lionizing Canadians for wanting it more and where the Cup is the most important thing in contrast to how Russians have been portrayed have led to some bizarre thinking among fans.

There are Russian players who have been very disappointing because they don't get the most out of their talent level (Zherdev, Filatov, Yashin) but the same goes for Canadian players (Stewart, Wolski, Daigle).

I would say those guys still get criticism for it, but it's not quite the same. It seems to be a lot of hold over from early 90's bias.

I wonder if any of the "lazy" stereotype comes from how the Russians focus on teaching a more finesse-based style of hockey? While the Canadians might focus more on effort or "hustle" than letting the skill flow.

Obviously hard work is important but if you're very skilled sometimes it can seem like you aren't putting any effort in to your playing, because your skill makes it easy. Though I'm not saying that plenty of elite level Russians have massively underachieved in the NHL.

I think this might be a big part of it. And not just because they might sometimes look like they're putting in less effort, but because you see a guy with tons of individual skill and you think he should be more productive than he is, it's easy to think that effort is the problem. But shooting and puck skills only get you so far, and often it's simply hockey IQ holding them back. Though, like above, when we see this in North Americans like Spezza, they don't seem to get the same level of criticism. And it's not as pointed toward nationality (it's not just "lazy", it's specifically "lazy Russian"), which is the bigger factor.

 

[dragonballgtz]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cM2ja_ZFFy8


It goes back to the old Summit Series IMO aka Cold War.

 

[pedis]

disrespectful and a shame they are thought of in this manner. In 2015 its crazy but the NA bias is huge here. Sometimes its hard even to listen to sports radio because of the repetitive bashing the russians get by socially unaware on air hosts

 

[CashMash]

It's not so much that Kovalev, Kostitsyn or Semin are lazy, it's just that they underachieved. They never reached their full potential. Kovalev's effort was inconsistent, Kostitsyn didn't have the right priorities in life (as evidenced by the Radulov fiasco) and Semin didn't have the mental toughness to push himself to the limit.
All the talent in the world, but they didn't exploit it, it's a shame.

That's coming from a huge Semin and Kovalev fan BTW.
Most Russians are not lazy. Datsyuk, Ovechkin, Malkin, Tarasenko, Markov and Kovalchuk aren't lazy.

B-b-but Cherry said he was lazy

 

[Theokritos]

When did Rads and Yak become lazy?

The moment he turned his back on the NHL.

North American stars who are a bit inconsistent don't get branded the same way. If Spezza or Ryan were Russian, they'd be talked about differently.

Or Эрик Стаал. Sorry, Eric Staal I meant.

 

[johan f]

If knowing the history of Russia (Soviet), how their people have been treated, how being forced to discipline with all the terror coming with that....and further on the forced discipline within sports and Icehockey, where players were told what to do all the time. Their "chemistry" on ice was not a product of pure joy and interest in helping each other on ice. It was taught with no whatsoever attempt to make players do all things from inside their own brains and hearts. It was whipped into their minds one can say (to exaggerate).

Then when glasnost arrived, when Tichonov lost his power, when freedom was sighted, when no coaches or system managed to force players anylonger....it resulted in new generations of players not able to by nature play a teamgame. In other countries that instinct always comes naturally.

There's more to it than I wrote, but simply put, Russians aren't used to corporate on their own terms. I have seen youth teams from Russia playing Swedish teams and it's the same, some skilled players but they were puckhogs.

Then their culture in the society is total different from North America which always makes it harder to adapt to a life in new country. It is probably getting better now compared with the first wave of players from Russia.

Datsyuk is the odd exception, teamguy, no holdouts, no issues. And of course Larionov.

 

[DieByTheShield]

Do people seriously believe this myth? I thought Malkin's 2009 playoffs already busted it.

 

[The Lunatic Fridge]

You can find "lazy" players of every nationality. Russians are one of the most populated bunch to play the game of hockey, not a shocker they get singled out.

It's just like saying all canadians are "good ol' canadian boys" Obviously there are good canadians and dirtbag ones that play in the NHL.

Frankly to even call a Russian (that made the NHL) lazy is idiotic in itself.

 

[Beville]

It's not so much that Kovalev, Kostitsyn or Semin are lazy, it's just that they underachieved. They never reached their full potential. Kovalev's effort was inconsistent, Kostitsyn didn't have the right priorities in life (as evidenced by the Radulov fiasco) and Semin didn't have the mental toughness to push himself to the limit.
All the talent in the world, but they didn't exploit it, it's a shame.

That's coming from a huge Semin and Kovalev fan BTW.
Most Russians are not lazy. Datsyuk, Ovechkin, Malkin, Tarasenko, Markov and Kovalchuk aren't lazy.

*Insert GIF of Ovechkin not back checking and NYR Scoring*

 

[Theokritos]

*Insert GIF of Ovechkin not back checking and NYR Scoring*

You're late to the party.

Also Relevant:

 

[feds91]

I remember last year when an ESPN columnist said that he wouldn't draft Andrew Wiggins with the 1st overall pick cuz he said Canadians lack drive and are too unmotivated to succeed in the NBA. The Canadian media got so offended, go figure

 

[Sergei DRW]

I'll put it this way - truly lazy Russians never make it to the NHL. If you achieved an elite status, you can't be lazy simply because you have to sacrifice so much to be on that level of play.

 

[Fire Sweeney]

Russians are stronger and more talented than north americans, they simply don't need to grind as much to get the same results.

 

[TheGuyInTheChair]

That gif gets me every time!

 

[NyQuil]

I think it has a lot more to do with the kinds of Russians that are drafted.

NHL clubs tend to focus on the high-skill players and not necessarily Russian grinders (although there are a few kicking around the league).

Meanwhile, the NHLs 3rd and 4th lines tend to be populated with North Americans who have to work hard to keep a job.

A lot of top 6 North-Americans can be perceived as "lazy" but the proliferation of "good hard-working Prairie" boys on the bottom lines helps to dissipate the stigma.

 

[Tripod]

I think it has a lot more to do with the kinds of Russians that are drafted.

NHL clubs tend to focus on the high-skill players and not necessarily Russian grinders (although there are a few kicking around the league).

Meanwhile, the NHLs 3rd and 4th lines tend to be populated with North Americans who have to work hard to keep a job.

A lot of top 6 North-Americans can be perceived as "lazy" but the proliferation of "good hard-working Prairie" boys on the bottom lines helps to dissipate the stigma.

Agreed.

Look at Leo Komarov. No one says he is lazy because he works his ass off every shift and is what you want from a bottom 6 guy.

Certain guys get a lazy tag because people can see all the skill they posess, yet also see that player not use that skill every night. EFFORT is an easy thing to see. And some people don't bring it every shift....regardless of Nationality.

Datsyuk never has "lazy" tag....for good reason.

 

[Atas2000]

When did Rads and Yak become lazy?

They are russian, remember?

 

[Davebo*]

Agreed.

Look at Leo Komarov. No one says he is lazy because he works his ass off every shift and is what you want from a bottom 6 guy.

Certain guys get a lazy tag because people can see all the skill they posess, yet also see that player not use that skill every night. EFFORT is an easy thing to see. And some people don't bring it every shift....regardless of Nationality.

Datsyuk never has "lazy" tag....for good reason.

There's a problem with your hypothesis - he's not Russian...

 

[Tripod]

There's a problem with your hypothesis - he's not Russian...

Lol....well look at that...I learned something new. Ok...most Russians are lazy.

 

[Davebo*]

Russians are stronger and more talented than north americans, they simply don't need to grind as much to get the same results.

Stronger? I highly doubt it. More skilled? I've not seen it - in best on best's vs Canada, Russia has been getting their ***** handed to them - even on big ice. Canada's game the past 5-6 years is very skilled.

I'm not sure grinding would help Russia, but skill vs skill it's Canada all the way these days.