Rumor: Rumours & Proposals | "Dollar In, Dollar Out"

[GOilers88]

Agree goaltending is the number one issue. If we just had someone roloson calibre to count on in the playoffs I think this squad could do damage.

I'm very wary of a high price goalie like markstrom or holtby being the solution. Best imo is Gibson.

Isn't Gibson a high price goalie?

 

[Anarchism]

I would imagine either Holland has or will be shortly touching base with Barrie's agent but in vain.
Barrie will go to market this summer and somewhere nice will offer him some term and 6 million plus.
His one year has proven fruitful for himself and us and gave time for development of Bouchard who should now get another extended shot given he is healthy.
But instead of thinking about re signing Barrie perhaps its the best time to move him for a goalie and a stable or projectable young D.

 

[GOilers88]

I would imagine either Holland has or will be shortly touching base with Barrie's agent but in vain.
Barrie will go to market this summer and somewhere nice will offer him some term and 6 million plus.
His one year has proven fruitful for himself and us and gave time for development of Bouchard who should now get another extended shot given he is healthy.
But instead of thinking about re signing Barrie perhaps its the best time to move him for a goalie and a stable or projectable young D.

Whether he comes back or not, moving Barrie before this season is over is a bad move imo. Consider him a rental that didn't cost anything but some cap space.

 

[Soundwave]

I would imagine either Holland has or will be shortly touching base with Barrie's agent but in vain.
Barrie will go to market this summer and somewhere nice will offer him some term and 6 million plus.
His one year has proven fruitful for himself and us and gave time for development of Bouchard who should now get another extended shot given he is healthy.
But instead of thinking about re signing Barrie perhaps its the best time to move him for a goalie and a stable or projectable young D.

We don't have the luxury of losing Barrie now. He will play out to the end of his contract and then we'll see where we are, if he walks, so be it. He gave us one good year and that's important as it buys us valuable time for Bouchard and other young D to grow.

No interest in moving him for futures. That sends the wrong message to the team.

 

[Fourier]

This isn't a "long term" problem though. This is "do you want to go back to missing the playoffs immediately" problem.

The Oilers cannot make due without good goaltending. They fell off a cliff after their "breakthrough" 16-17 season as Talbot slumped and there's a fair chance that happens again as Smith ages or isn't brought back unless they are on the ball with bringing in solid goaltending.

They need to make sure every year they are good in this area.

The Adam Larssons and Tyson Barries and Nugent Hopkins of the world don't mean shit to the Oilers if they don't have a good goalie behind them. This group was a horrendous 3-6 in the first 9 games before Smith came back and righted the ship.

The current goaltending has been easily enough to keep them comfortably in the playoffs. Bt my issue is you are proposing spending more money and could just as easily get worse. Andersen for example is a gamble. He has struggled with rather significant injuries over teh last two years. And it is not at all clear that he will return to form. So if you are signing him long term to a deal in teh $5-6M range and you end up with a dud that is a problem. At least with Koskinen he has a decent chance of providing similar level of play at a cheaper cost and with only one more year of commitment. Frankly, for next yeaar I don't see any of your 1B options being a better option than Smith.

I don't disagree that better goaltending would be great. Nor do I think that Holland should not be turning over stones. But if you want to pay for legitimate goaltending do it from the bad contracts not by subtracting guys who actually contribute. That may take one more year.

 

[GOilers88]

We don't have the luxury of losing Barrie now. He will play out to the end of his contract and then we'll see where we are, if he walks, so be it. He gave us one good year and that's important as it buys us valuable time for Bouchard and other young D to grow.

No interest in moving him for futures. That sends the wrong message to the team.

While I'm with the majority that would like to see Bouch playing, as a heavily offensive guy Im hoping that watching and practicing with Barrie has helped out Bouch's development. Never hurts to take lessons from guys who are killing it. Like what we were hoping Mike Green might have provided last year.

 

[McDNicks17]

What website is this from?

Looks like from Andy & Rono. They post a bunch on their Twitter. I forget what their site is though.

 

[McOilers97]

While I'm with the majority that would like to see Bouch playing, as a heavily offensive guy Im hoping that watching and practicing with Barrie has helped out Bouch's development. Never hurts to take lessons from guys who are killing it. Like what we were hoping Mike Green might have provided last year.

Having elite guys like McDavid/Draisaitl/Nurse/Barrie that seem like good teammates too is just a good thing for everyone. They just bring skills and perspective that most "ordinary" players probably wouldn't be exposed to otherwise.

 

[Soundwave]

The current goaltending has been easily enough to keep them comfortably in the playoffs. Bt my issue is you are proposing spending more money and could just as easily get worse. Andersen for example is a gamble. He has struggled with rather significant injuries over teh last two years. And it is not at all clear that he will return to form. So if you are signing him long term to a deal in teh $5-6M range and you end up with a dud that is a problem. At least with Koskinen he has a decent chance of providing similar level of play at a cheaper cost and with only one more year of commitment. Frankly, for next yeaar I don't see any of your 1B options being a better option than Smith.

I don't disagree that better goaltending would be great. Nor do I think that Holland should not be turning over stones. But if you want to pay for legitimate goaltending do it from the bad contracts not by subtracting guys who actually contribute. That may take one more year.

You can't bank next season on a 40 year old Mike Smith replicating this year, that just is what it is. Father time is undefeated.

So yes, we may have to spend more and maybe the goaltending isn't even as good as it was now, but that's how it goes. Smith has a peak performance of a Vezina tier goalie when he is on his game.

It's just too bad he's 39 years old instead of 33 years old, but that's the reality of the situation and you have to accept that and move on accordingly after this season.

I don't have trust in Koskinen that he can raise his game without a better goalie sheltering him in a 1B role. We saw what happened in the first 9 games this season, once again he fell apart. He only plays well as a back up to Smith.

 

[jeffff]

Is there that much of a difference between the 5th best goalie and 15th...not really. The team in front of them can easily make a goalie.

Having a consistent, top end, #1 goalie is huge, we all know that. Hasek, Brodeur, Luongo etc were always good. BUT some of the worst contracts in the history of the game are teams grossly overpaying for goalies. Even look at the last Vezina winners, some guys win the Vezna and fall off dramatically. So many goalies have had a fantastic season or two and then nothing (Hart)

I'm so hesitant to step up and pay or give away the farm for goalie.

 

[Jet Walters]

A goalie upgrade would be the first thing I would look at. The Merzlikins suggestion is a good one, he could be a piece in a Gibson trade if he demands a trade to a better team. Part of a package for Darcy Kuemper.

Regardless, we don't really need Edler, and Pearson shouldn't cost what you are suggesting.

Goalie shouldn’t be addressed until the offseason IMO. Bringing in a LW under contract for Bear is risky if they don’t mesh with our personnel. Basically the Athanisiou situation all over again. Pearson is still in his 20’s. Maybe he fits and comes back. Worst case we have freed up cap space and it will be a great time to have money to spend.

 

[Canovin]

Why would Buffalo accept that? They would be better off to just keep Hall and let his contract expire.

For a team that's going to be rebuilding next year. I'm sure they will want assets for Hall, Eichel(most likely after this season), Staal, Reinhart etc. They are stuck with Skinner for awhile so they might as well take some salary back for some assets

 

[belair]

This isn't a "long term" problem though. This is "do you want to go back to missing the playoffs immediately" problem.

The Oilers cannot make due without good goaltending. They fell off a cliff after their "breakthrough" 16-17 season as Talbot slumped and there's a fair chance that happens again as Smith ages or isn't brought back unless they are on the ball with bringing in solid goaltending.

They need to make sure every year they are good in this area.

The Adam Larssons and Tyson Barries and Nugent Hopkins of the world don't mean shit to the Oilers if they don't have a good goalie behind them. This group was a horrendous 3-6 in the first 9 games before Smith came back and righted the ship.

Some teams (usually veteran teams) are good enough to shrug off stretches of bad goaltending, this team ain't one of them. You can see it clear as day, they get deflated badly when the goaltending behind them isn't solid (as do other young teams like Toronto and Vancouver).

This is a two way street though. You define a 'good goaltender' by their on-ice performance and that performance is heavily influenced by the product in front of him. There are plenty of examples out there where 'good goaltenders' struggle behind bad teams. Others where 'bad goaltenders' see their games inflated by good teams.

The Carolina Hurricanes are a Stanley Cup contender right now. Petr Mrazek got hurt at the beginning of the season. So their goaltenders have been James Reimer and rookie that was a rookie goaltender who cleared waivers earlier in the year.

As things stand in Edmonton, it's pretty likely Mike Smith runs tandem with someone next season unless the wheels fall off at some point.

 

[Soundwave]

Is there that much of a difference between the 5th best goalie and 15th...not really. The team in front of them can easily make a goalie.

Having a consistent, top end, #1 goalie is huge, we all know that. Hasek, Brodeur, Luongo etc were always good. BUT some of the worst contracts in the history of the game are teams grossly overpaying for goalies. Even look at the last Vezina winners, some guys win the Vezna and fall off dramatically. So many goalies have had a fantastic season or two and then nothing (Hart)

I'm so hesitant to step up and pay or give away the farm for goalie.

Other teams can "make a goalie look good". This isn't one of those teams, maybe in 3-4 years when they are older and more savvy, but now? This team visibly becomes rattled when they don't get good goaltending it's clear as day (same is true of other young teams like the Canucks and Leafs as well).

No one is saying spend $10 million on a goalie, but spending $4.5-$6 million on a good starter + even $2-3 million more on a good backup is something this team probably needs.

 

[Soundwave]

This is a two way street though. You define a 'good goaltender' by their on-ice performance and that performance is heavily influenced by the product in front of him. There are plenty of examples out there where 'good goaltenders' struggle behind bad teams. Others where 'bad goaltenders' see their games inflated by good teams.

The Carolina Hurricanes are a Stanley Cup contender right now. Petr Mrazek got hurt at the beginning of the season. So their goaltenders have been James Reimer and rookie that was a rookie goaltenders'who cleared waivers earlier in the year.

As things stand in Edmonton, it's pretty likely Mike Smith runs tandem with someone next season unless the wheels fall off at some point.

That "someone else" needs to be a lot better than Mikko Koskinen if you are going to bet the farm on a 40 year old Mike Smith next year. You are playing with fire and asking to get burned.

I like Smith and he should be given a lot of praise for what he has done here since January of last year, but there is really no great track record of a 39/40 year old being able to lead a team as goalie.

We can see clear as day even with this exact Oilers group what they are without good goaltending -- a 3-6 record headed towards missing the playoffs. This team needs good goaltending. It's not a "well that would be nice to have" optional thing.

 

[GOilers88]

This is a two way street though. You define a 'good goaltender' by their on-ice performance and that performance is heavily influenced by the product in front of him. There are plenty of examples out there where 'good goaltenders' struggle behind bad teams. Others where 'bad goaltenders' see their games inflated by good teams.

The Carolina Hurricanes are a Stanley Cup contender right now. Petr Mrazek got hurt at the beginning of the season. So their goaltenders have been James Reimer and rookie that was a rookie goaltenders'who cleared waivers earlier in the year.

As things stand in Edmonton, it's pretty likely Mike Smith runs tandem with someone next season unless the wheels fall off at some point.

Like one John Gibson this year. I'd love to have the guy, he's just a solid example of what you said.

 

[WaitingForUser]

Two of those are unrestricted free agents this summer. We can't afford to re-sign both unless we get rid of some expendable big contracts, let Nuge walk away, or don't look for a goaltending upgrade.

That all depends on what their ask is though. If you can get Barrie for 5.5x3 and maybe Larrson at 3x3 than you are laughing.

 

[MuzzaFuzza]

A goalie upgrade would be the first thing I would look at. The Merzlikins suggestion is a good one, he could be a piece in a Gibson trade if he demands a trade to a better team. Part of a package for Darcy Kuemper.

Regardless, we don't really need Edler, and Pearson shouldn't cost what you are suggesting.

You're right we don't really need Edler, and i certainly don't trade Bear for him. But i quite like the look of the defence with Edler in there instead of Russell.

Nurse - Barrie
Edler - Bear
Lagesson - Larsson

Can't see Holland having the (disposable) assets to land him though, unless Van is content with one of our D prospects plus a later pick. Not to mention his NMC.

 

[GOilers88]

That "someone else" needs to be a lot better than Mikko Koskinen if you are going to bet the farm on a 40 year old Mike Smith next year. You are playing with fire and asking to get burned.

I like Smith and he should be given a lot of praise for what he has done here since January of last year, but there is really no great track record of a 39/40 year old being able to lead a team as goalie.

We can see clear as day even with this exact Oilers group what they are without good goaltending -- a 3-6 record headed towards missing the playoffs. This team needs good goaltending. It's not a "well that would be nice to have" optional thing.

You're not wrong about Mikko to start the year, but I really think you're overstating a super small sample of games that were essentially what the preseason and exhibition games would have been.

I'm not saying Mikko would have suddenly found an A+ game, but 3-6 to start a season is hardly something to lose your mind over. Especially when the real problem wasn't Mikko, it was the fact he was the only actual goalie we had.

 

[Soundwave]

You're not wrong about Mikko to start the year, but I really think you're overstating a super small sample of games that were essentially what the preseason and exhibition games would have been.

I'm not saying Mikko would have suddenly found an A+ game, but 3-6 to start a season is hardly something to lose your mind over.

He's not good enough and I'm not willing to risk future seasons on that type of goaltending.

This year with Smith is OK because Smith is bringing it, but I'm looking at next season and saying "nope" to a 40 year old Smith and Koskinen tandem.

That is asking for trouble.

This team can't function without really good goaltending. They just aren't some savvy veteran team that plays some super structured defensive style and they aren't going to be any time soon with more young players like Bouchard, Samourokov, Broberg, Benson, Holloway, Lavoie, etc. to implement into the roster.

Older, grizzled veteran squads like Pittsburgh can maybe get away with that, but we just can't, and we've seen it over and over again, we don't need to see it again to be sure.

 

[GOilers88]

He's not good enough and I'm not willing to risk future seasons on that type of goaltending.

This year with Smith is OK because Smith is bringing it, but I'm looking at next season and saying "nope" to a 40 year old Smith and Koskinen tandem.

That is asking for trouble.

Oh I don't disagree at all. I don't think we see the same tandem either.

 

[Burnt Biscuits]

I'm not sold on Neal being bought out yet. It makes sense to hang onto him for one more year and do it next summer. 2 years of cap hit penalty is so much easier to manage than 4. I also wonder if there can't be some LTIR'ing based on his apparent post-COVID conditioning issues. I'm not sure if they are "my lungs are screwed" bad or "I sat on the couch during the break and then got COVID and I'm still not in game shape" type issues though. Or maybe he's just aging out, I don't know.


Either way, if we're planning to re-sign Nuge (we should be) and one of Barrie and Larsson, when you consider the RFA raises we need to give out, we might be able to afford one significant upgrade to another position. I think that needs to be in goal, not with another 8 million dollar forward (even if he does sign for 6 or so).

While it's true one cap hit penalty is across 2 years and the other is across 4 years, that's not the way it should be viewed. Delaying the buy-out by a year obviously leaves you with his full $5.75M cap hit for that season and then 2 years of buy-out penalty following that, the proper argument is 4 years of cap hit or 3 years of cap hit (with year one of the 3 year cap hit being significantly larger).

 

[Anarchism]

He's not good enough and I'm not willing to risk future seasons on that type of goaltending.

This year with Smith is OK because Smith is bringing it, but I'm looking at next season and saying "nope" to a 40 year old Smith and Koskinen tandem.

That is asking for trouble.

This team can't function without really good goaltending. They just aren't some savvy veteran team that plays some super structured defensive style and they aren't going to be any time soon with more young players like Bouchard, Samourokov, Broberg, Benson, Holloway, Lavoie, etc. to implement into the roster.

Older, grizzled veteran squads like Pittsburgh can maybe get away with that, but we just can't, and we've seen it over and over again, we don't need to see it again to be sure.

Yes ...for the last half a dozen years we have tried to upgrade out tending. We have tried the russian thing ..it hasn;t worked....we tried free agency last year....and it spectacularly didnt work.

So your answer is???

Were not good enough to go far this year--we are missing 4 key people in key positions with goaltending being the most important.

 

[Little Fury]

This isn't a "long term" problem though. This is "do you want to go back to missing the playoffs immediately" problem.

The Oilers cannot make due without good goaltending. They fell off a cliff after their "breakthrough" 16-17 season as Talbot slumped and there's a fair chance that happens again as Smith ages or isn't brought back unless they are on the ball with bringing in solid goaltending.

They need to make sure every year they are good in this area.

The Adam Larssons and Tyson Barries and Nugent Hopkins of the world don't mean shit to the Oilers if they don't have a good goalie behind them. This group was a horrendous 3-6 in the first 9 games before Smith came back and righted the ship.

Some teams (usually veteran teams) are good enough to shrug off stretches of bad goaltending, this team ain't one of them. You can see it clear as day, they get deflated badly when the goaltending behind them isn't solid (as do other young teams like Toronto and Vancouver).

It's one thing to identify the need for consistent goaltending, another thing altogether to find that goalie.

I'm not sure you do it by firing the money cannon at the problem either. Look at Markstrom this season as a cautionary tale.

 

[Burnt Biscuits]

He's not good enough and I'm not willing to risk future seasons on that type of goaltending.

This year with Smith is OK because Smith is bringing it, but I'm looking at next season and saying "nope" to a 40 year old Smith and Koskinen tandem.

That is asking for trouble.

This team can't function without really good goaltending. They just aren't some savvy veteran team that plays some super structured defensive style and they aren't going to be any time soon with more young players like Bouchard, Samourokov, Broberg, Benson, Holloway, Lavoie, etc. to implement into the roster.

Older, grizzled veteran squads like Pittsburgh can maybe get away with that, but we just can't, and we've seen it over and over again, we don't need to see it again to be sure.

I'd say just get used to the idea of Smith being back, he's played quite well & Tippett loves and trusts him, plus Holland has never been scared of sticking with vets.

Maybe I took in the wrong Pittsburgh games this season, but I think our defensive structure is better than theirs.