Rumor: Rumours and Proposals | Do we add anyone during the break?

[Behind Enemy Lines]

If we let RNH walk players I would look at

Rickard Rakell via trade
Taylor Hall (1 year x 5.5 million Barrie boost contract)
Erik Haula (would like to test drive right now actually)
Brandon Saad
Alex Galychenyuk
Max Domi (via trade)

Okay so your list.

What do the trade assets look like to acquire Rakell, Domi? Both have contract term so price goes up.

Trade deadline players like Haula and Saad? Galychenyuk from the Leafs or UFA. What are you trading to test drive them? Where are you dumping salary and salary cap?

Taylor Hall's done the one year bet on himself project which failed. No certainly he does that again. And no certainty he decides to pick Edmonton.

 

[Soundwave]

Okay so your list.

What do the trade assets look like to acquire Rakell, Domi? Both have contract term so price goes up.

Trade deadline players like Haula and Saad? Galychenyuk from the Leafs or UFA. What are you trading to test drive them? Where are you dumping salary and salary cap?

Taylor Hall's done the one year bet on himself project which failed. No certainly he does that again. And no certainty he decides to pick Edmonton.

Oilers are going to have to start selling 1st rounders, don't like to do it but we can't fill all the holes in the roster in a reasonable time frame without doing so and a 2021 1st is a player that maybe plays on the team in 2025? That's too far out, we need to give Connor and Leon better options to play with now.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Oilers are going to have to start selling 1st rounders, don't like to do it but we can't fill all the holes in the roster in a reasonable time frame without doing so and a 2021 1st is a player that maybe plays on the team in 2025? That's too far out, we need to give Connor and Leon better options to play with now.

Ok, so per your list. Would be great to see what you feel the trade value looks like. Sounds like trading off first round picks is part of it. You've named your replacement group possibilities - look forward to seeing the many trade scenarios you envision to move this team forward minus letting Nugent Hopkins walk for nothing.

 

[McShogun99]

Oilers are going to have to start selling 1st rounders, don't like to do it but we can't fill all the holes in the roster in a reasonable time frame without doing so and a 2021 1st is a player that maybe plays on the team in 2025? That's too far out, we need to give Connor and Leon better options to play with now.

I just don’t want us to trade 1sts for rentals. Holland had the right idea with the AA trade, he just targeted the wrong player.

 

[Soundwave]

Ok, so per your list. Would be great to see what you feel the trade value looks like. Sounds like trading off first round picks is part of it. You've named your replacement group possibilities - look forward to seeing the many trade scenarios you envision to move this team forward minus letting Nugent Hopkins walk for nothing.

If he walks I would get Connor and Leon to call Taylor Hall and show him Barrie's turn around here. You come here and you get to play 2 minute full shifts on our PP with Connor and Leon. 1 year deal is the smart business play for Taylor even long term. Gives us flexibility too.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

If he walks I would get Connor and Leon to call Taylor Hall and show him Barrie's turn around here. You come here and you get to play 2 minute full shifts on our PP with Connor and Leon. 1 year deal is the smart business play for Taylor even long term. Gives us flexibility too.

I think your first call is to your generational talent captain and his fellow Hart Trophy winner to explain why you're letting their running mate go for nothing. And how your committed to winning before they go to UFA (and how letting Nugent Hopkins go for nothing doesn't mean the organization isn't loyal to them).

We have no idea how they feel about Taylor Hall. He was a teammate here before. We do know how they feel about Nugent Hopkins as a valued teammate from their interviews. In question is if they feel Hall is either a better player or better teammate than Nugent Hopkins.

 

[belair]

RNH is not a good winger for McDavid, so to fill that spot we are going to have to spend eventually, it is what it is.

Against better teams, RNH can't hack it as a 1st line winger.

If he walks that's also on him, it'll be because his salary demands were too high, you can't force a player to sign here and you can't have middling players holding the team hostage.

RNH has been a fine winger for McDavid. If you're expecting a player to come in and score 40 goals with him, you'd be paying accordingly on the next contract.

The reality of this year's FA market is that you're unlikely to find better production with just McDavid from a UFA target. But you're also not guaranteed to get the PP prowess, the PK prowess and ability to carry the heavier workload.

You're expecting to hit with not just one, but two or three UFAs to cover the workload of one player you already know can do the job consistently.

You're too focused on the player's offensive production and when you look at what the team can do currently, that isn't a significant problem. Their ability to prevent GA is the much bigger issue, particularly when McDavid and Draisaitl aren't on the ice.

 

[Soundwave]

I think your first call is to your generational talent captain and his fellow Hart Trophy winner to explain why you're letting their running mate go for nothing. And how your committed to winning before they go to UFA (and how letting Nugent Hopkins go for nothing doesn't mean the organization isn't loyal to them).

We have no idea how they feel about Taylor Hall. He was a teammate here before. We do know how they feel about Nugent Hopkins as a valued teammate from their interviews. In question is if they feel Hall is either a better player or better teammate than Nugent Hopkins.

If RNH is gone it's going to be because he's trying to get paid more than he's worth.

If he think's he's worth only $1.5 million less than Leon Draisaitl he and his agent are both smoking crack and can go sign that contract with a team that will regret it badly in 2-3 years, maybe sooner.

We can't pay everyone a McInflated contract for guys really don't move the needle and just take advantage of inflated numbers because of their linemates.

RNH is not as good as players in the division like Ehlers, Connor, Nylander, Tkachuk, and doesn't deserve to be paid equal to those players especially in a freaking flat cap.

 

[Soundwave]

RNH has been a fine winger for McDavid. If you're expecting a player to come in and score 40 goals with him, you'd be paying accordingly on the next contract.

The reality of this year's FA market is that you're unlikely to find better production with just McDavid from a UFA target. But you're also not guaranteed to get the PP prowess, the PK prowess and ability to carry the heavier workload.

You're expecting to hit with not just one, but two or three UFAs to cover the workload of one player you already know can do the job consistently.

You're too focused on the player's offensive production and when you look at what the team can do currently, that isn't a significant problem. Their ability to prevent GA is the much bigger issue, particularly when McDavid and Draisaitl aren't on the ice.

6 even strength goals with McDavid in 35 games is not fine, it's pathetic. I think if you put a Galchenyuk in the same spot he'd have the same or more goals for 1/6th the salary.

You can spend that money on 1 or even 2 or even 3 PK specialists.

RNH can't prevent shit when he is not on McDavid or Draisaitl's lines either, his line will get caved if he has to be the best player and center on the line.

 

[McDNicks17]

RNH has been a fine winger for McDavid. If you're expecting a player to come in and score 40 goals with him, you'd be paying accordingly on the next contract.

The reality of this year's FA market is that you're unlikely to find better production with just McDavid from a UFA target. But you're also not guaranteed to get the PP prowess, the PK prowess and ability to carry the heavier workload.

You're expecting to hit with not just one, but two or three UFAs to cover the workload of one player you already know can do the job consistently.

You're too focused on the player's offensive production and when you look at what the team can do currently, that isn't a significant problem. Their ability to prevent GA is the much bigger issue, particularly when McDavid and Draisaitl aren't on the ice.

No one expects 40 goals. Just more than the four he has with McDavid in the 28 games he's spent on his wing.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

If RNH is gone it's going to be because he's trying to get paid more than he's worth.

If he think's he's worth only $1.5 million less than Leon Draisaitl he and his agent are both smoking crack and can go sign that contract with a team that will regret it badly in 2-3 years, maybe sooner.

We can't pay everyone a McInflated contract for guys really don't move the needle and just take advantage of inflated numbers because of their linemates.

The first call is to McDavid and Draisaitl to tell them 'your plan'. They're in the trenches with Nugent Hopkins and clearly value a lot of what he does on-ice and in the room. All coaches have echoed the value often not seen by casual fans. Explain why you think letting Nugent Hopkins walk for nothing is a good business decision. Then you can hit them with your plan ... and in your proposal ... to send first round picks away to replace him with trade targets you noted and a UFA whose already been here.

 

[McSuper]

The dream team:

Draisaitl-McDavid-Puljujarvi
Hall-RNH-Yamamoto
Holloway-Lowry-Archibald
Benson-Mcleod-[insert plug here]

Nurse-Barrie
Klefbom-Bear
Russell-Bouchard
Jones

[Good goalie]
Smith or other backup

I think this could work salary-wise. We would just have to get rid of Neal, Koskinen, and Kassian

That 2nd line is a nightmare . I guess a nightmare is still a dream but not one I would like replaying for a year or more .

 

[Soundwave]

The first call is to McDavid and Draisaitl to tell them 'your plan'. They're in the trenches with Nugent Hopkins and clearly value a lot of what he does on-ice and in the room. All coaches have echoed the value often not seen by casual fans. Explain why you think letting Nugent Hopkins walk for nothing is a good business decision. Then you can hit them with your plan ... and in your proposal ... to send first round picks away to replace him with trade targets you noted and a UFA whose already been here.

You will regret signing RNH to the 6.5-7 million contract he will want in less than 3 years and you'll be locked in with that albatross contract then when you should be looking to go for a Cup.

If RNH can't get it going at age 27/28 with a McDavid scoring at a historic modern pace, do you really think that's going to be pretty in 3-4 years? I don't think so. It will be a contract the Oilers wish they never signed.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

You will regret signing RNH to the 6.5-7 million contract he will want in less than 3 years and you'll be locked in with that albatross contract then when you should be looking to go for a Cup.

If RNH can't get it going at age 27/28 with a McDavid scoring at a historic modern pace, do you really think that's going to be pretty in 3-4 years? I don't think so. It will be a contract the Oilers wish they never signed.

This is about your plan. You've presented a vision of how to replace letting Nugent Hopkins walk for nothing. Interested to see how you make it happen - saw your list of replacements and heard you'll throw first round picks at it. But let's see it played out as you've drawn it up. Walk us through your GM work. It just needs to begin with a dialogue with your generational talent to lay it out and appreciate this is the way.

 

[belair]

6 even strength goals with McDavid in 35 games is not fine, it's pathetic. I think if you put a Galchenyuk in the same spot he'd have the same or more goals for 1/6th the salary.

And he'd at best be another Dominik Kahun calibre winger, killing possessions and being the main culprit of GAs due to numerous egregious turnovers. Again there's more to the game of hockey than a players boxcar statistics.

You can spend that money on 1 or even 2 or even 3 PK specialists.

So we mention the team's history dicking around in FA again. How has that gone historically? Even the successes go tits up. We filled out our depth roles this season and the majority of them ended up clearing waivers. Koekkoek would've cleared, too.

RNH can't prevent shit when he is not on McDavid or Draisaitl's lines either, his line will get caved if he has to be the best player and center on the line.

Against Tavares and Nylander? Even Draisaitl had problems doing that in this series. If you give RNH/Draisaitl a better defensive winger than Kahun, there's a very good chance they do a better job at limiting the other teams chances of scoring though. It's kind of been Nuge's job for the past decade in Edmonton.

Going power vs power isn't how you beat the Leafs. Make their scorers defend and they're not lighting you up off of the rush.

 

[belair]

No one expects 40 goals. Just more than the four he has with McDavid in the 28 games he's spent on his wing.

I don't think anybody would argue against expecting more offense out of Nuge. But if that's the argument for moving on from him, it's incredibly flawed logic. Ryan Nugent-Hopkins brings a lot more to the table than his offensive production.

And even when we're seeing a big lull in the production of the player, the team is scoring at its highest rate in the McDavid era. Fix the supporting cast, not the impact players.

 

[Chabot84]

Anybody remember this line:

RNH - Draisaitl - Yamo

 

[Oilhawks]

Anybody remember this line:

RNH - Draisaitl - Yamo

Tippett doesn’t

 

[DropTheGloves]

Walk us through your GM work. It just needs to begin with a dialogue with your generational talent to lay it out and appreciate this is the way.

If Connor McDavid is the one Holland needs permission from to make personnel changes we have much bigger problems than just potentially overpaying RNH.

 

[gordonhught]

Get hall and Phil Kessl

make the salaries work with retention

= championships

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

If Connor McDavid is the one Holland needs permission from to make personnel changes we have much bigger problems than just potentially overpaying RNH.

It's not about permission. It is about respect and some common sense that relationships matter as the generational player ticks closer to his next contract which will be UFA. Throw Draisailt into that scenario too. This organization has had an epic amount of losing. It finally has stable, veteran management, coaching and a strong leadership core which is moving into a window of being a legitimate playoff contender with hope to run at Cups. You'd be an idiot to just think you flush a respected, productive and valued teammate that's survived all the incompetence for nothing without an eye on managing your elite talent who will call their own shots soon enough. Relationships matter. Trust matters. It's not a video game.

 

[Darkwinter]

I like RNH but he has been bad this year. Holland would be out of his mind to pay him over 5 mill a year
If RNH said no then he can gtfo as far as I am concern

 

[DropTheGloves]

It's not about permission. It is about respect and some common sense that relationships matter as the generational player ticks closer to his next contract which will be UFA. Throw Draisailt into that scenario too. This organization has had an epic amount of losing. It finally has stable, veteran management, coaching and a strong leadership core which is moving into a window of being a legitimate playoff contender with hope to run at Cups. You'd be an idiot to just think you flush a respected, productive and valued teammate that's survived all the incompetence for nothing without an eye on managing your elite talent who will call their own shots soon enough. Relationships matter. Trust matters. It's not a video game.

McDavid (or Draisaitl for that matter) really shouldn't care about such empty platitudes as "respected", "productive", and/or "valued teammate" if at the end of the day Holland (or Pretend Holland in this scenario) is able to confidently tell them that the result of an RNH trade has made or will make the Oilers a better hockey club and a move that gets them one step closer to the Stanley Cup. That's the goal here, and that's what will convince McDavid to stay beyond the end of his contract- not whether he likes the guy in the stall next to him or not.

I've noticed throughout this thread you keep trying to attach emotional bias onto a pretty black or white question: is RNH under-performing relative to his pay and role? If so, then the team needs to move on. Full stop. In a flat cap world, you can't afford to over-pay for underproduction (or even stagnation). Doing so leads to less winning, which leads to the doomsday scenario you're worried about. It's clear in Year 10 of his career that RNH does not have another level to his game, so signing him to even the same amount of money is just as damaging as giving him a raise.

You can try and dispute that with more arguments about how he's good in the room and deserves it for being a good soldier through all the bad, but none of those things makes us better and so that's where the discussion should rightfully end.

 

[Mr Positive]

RNH has been a fine winger for McDavid. If you're expecting a player to come in and score 40 goals with him, you'd be paying accordingly on the next contract.

The reality of this year's FA market is that you're unlikely to find better production with just McDavid from a UFA target. But you're also not guaranteed to get the PP prowess, the PK prowess and ability to carry the heavier workload.

You're expecting to hit with not just one, but two or three UFAs to cover the workload of one player you already know can do the job consistently.

You're too focused on the player's offensive production and when you look at what the team can do currently, that isn't a significant problem. Their ability to prevent GA is the much bigger issue, particularly when McDavid and Draisaitl aren't on the ice.

Except when Maroon was pacing better than RNH is now (mind you on a McDavid-Drai line), he did not get paid accordingly. All GMs recognized a "McDavid Factor". GMs are (edit: are not) chumps who just look only at stats. Quite frankly, with how RNH has played, his bargaining position has been destroyed. He is benefiting from the McDavid factor and should have inflated totals right now.

 

[Soundwave]

Except when Maroon was pacing better than RNH is now (mind you on a McDavid-Drai line), he did not get paid accordingly. All GMs recognized a "McDavid Factor". GMs are chumps who just look only at stats. Quite frankly, with how RNH has played, his bargaining position has been destroyed. He is benefiting from the McDavid factor and should have inflated totals right now.

My line with RNH is 6 x 6, take it or leave it.

And even that, in all honesty we will probably regret it within 2-3 years.

He's not a player that has the fire to compete when playoff intensity gets turned up, he has a hard time showing up even in intense regular season games.

If he wants more than that, I think you say goodbye. He is not good enough to be asking for more money than players like Ehlers in a flat cap environment.