Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2020-21 Pt. IX

[doublechili]

The Nelson as 1st line wing is something I've never seen anyone suggest before.

It's been suggested a number of times recently, even before the Palmieri deal.

I do kind of agree that Trotz is not the type to make drastic changes though....

 

[periferal]

Devils are closer to winning that you think. Their biggest problem is the killer division.

Literally what? Sure the Devils could take the draft capital and oodles of cap space and make some savvy moves to bolster their lineup, but as of right now I don't see a group of players who will become a Cup-contending core in the next 2-3 years.

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

Trotz should definitely take players that have thrived in their role and thrust them into different one.

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

Literally what?

Jesus f***ing christ.

 

[PK Cronin]

Jesus f***ing christ.

 

[periferal]

I dont care what anybody says, that Caps trade is one of the worst trades I have ever seen. How do you give up a 20-25 goal, 50 point player AND a 1st AND a second round pick for a guy who is also a 25 goal 50 point player. Even if you want to believe Vrana's ceiling is 25 goals and Mantha COULD become a 30-35 goal scorer. You think an extra 5-10 goals is worth a FIRST AND SECOND round pick. What an awful awful trade by the Caps.

I agree it's a bad trade, but you're ignoring the fact that AFTER getting rid of Panik's contract the Caps have 11M in cap space this summer. Sounds decent right?

Well Ovechkin is a UFA and Samsonov is an RFA. Those 2 alone will put them over the cap so they needed to start shedding cap space now. They said it yesterday on tradecentre...The Caps probably look at that deal as two separate deals:

1. Vrana + a 2nd for Mantha
2. Panik + a 1st for cap space

Is it an overpay? Probably, but the Caps will be one of many teams this summer (including your favorite team) that will need to shed salary just to resign their own players. There are more teams that need to shed salary than there are teams that can afford to take all those salary dumps. So the Caps got out ahead of everyone else while still maintaining their status as a Cup contender, and maybe made themselves a tougher team to play against.

I'd still rather be the Red Wings in the deal, but I at least understand why Wash did it.

 

[Throttle]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't the operative word re: Mantha always been "potential"? And the big question has always been whether he will reach it? This is going back to his draft year. It's one thing for HF posters to imagine what a player could be, and another thing for an NHL GM to do so. Washington made a gamble - we'll see.

Yzerman sold on him when he saw the ceiling. WAS may get a 30/30 guy in a full season with WAS supporting cast. A bump, but getting over 30Gs is much different than hitting 20 or 25. The latter is far more common. 30+ is a differentiator.

 

[MJF]

Love the thought here. The Nelson as 1st line wing is something I've never seen anyone suggest before. I've said it a million times...Nelson's true value is his shot. He does not/can not create much offense on his own, but if someone else can get him the puck in space where he can get his shot off then he's gold. And of course there's literally no one better on the team (and not many in the NHL) better at creating offense than Barzal.

Also I question if Pageau would thrive as a #2 center as opposed to a #3, but haven't Palmieri and Beauvillier would be a lot better than who he started out with at the beginning of this year.

All that said, I think there's zero chance Trotz makes these kind of sweeping adjustments. There's just no way he's moving Nelson out of that #2 center spot unless Barzal gets injured and he has to be a #1 center.

Love the thought here. The Nelson as 1st line wing is something I've never seen anyone suggest before. I've said it a million times...Nelson's true value is his shot. He does not/can not create much offense on his own, but if someone else can get him the puck in space where he can get his shot off then he's gold. And of course there's literally no one better on the team (and not many in the NHL) better at creating offense than Barzal.

There’s a reason you never saw anybody suggest Nelson as Barzal and Eb’s wing. Suddenly that line gets a lot lighter. Brock Nelson is a big guy who doesn’t play a big man’s game. Nelson going to the boards as a puck retriever doesn’t appeal to me.

 

[Matt Watson]

Lotto team or not, you don't trade a 50G player unless he wants out. Yzerman saw that he wasn't (a) his pick, and (b) not gonna be the guy people think he is. So, he sold before his value diminished. Mantha has scored 20+ goals twice. Let's not take the leap he is all of sudden doubling his output.

Don't buy any of this at all. He traded him because he felt he was getting more back than what he was giving up. That's what every trade should be and none of it means that Mantha necessarily wanted out or that he wasn't SY's guy or that he thinks that Mantha isn't a very good player now and can't be an even better player later.

 

[MJF]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't the operative word re: Mantha always been "potential"? And the big question has always been whether he will reach it? This is going back to his draft year. It's one thing for HF posters to imagine what a player could be, and another thing for an NHL GM to do so. Washington made a gamble - we'll see.

By the way everyone, don't waste your time looing for Anthony Mantha's career playoff stats. You won't find any.

 

[MJF]

Literally what? Sure the Devils could take the draft capital and oodles of cap space and make some savvy moves to bolster their lineup, but as of right now I don't see a group of players who will become a Cup-contending core in the next 2-3 years.

Blackwood, Hischier, Hughes, Wood, Ty Smith. Some teams don't even have this much of a core.

The Devils do have something solid to build around but they need more of everything.

 

[PK Cronin]

By the way everyone, don't waste your time looing for Anthony Mantha's career playoff stats. You won't find any.

For those that don't know:

verb. looed; looing; loos. Definition of loo (Entry 2 of 3) transitive verb. : to obligate to contribute to a new pool at loo for failing to win a trick.

Just because of my editing f***up yesterday. ; )

 

[MJF]

For those that don't know:

verb. looed; looing; loos. Definition of loo (Entry 2 of 3) transitive verb. : to obligate to contribute to a new pool at loo for failing to win a trick.

Just because of my editing f***up yesterday. ; )

I've never seen anyone conjugate loo before.

 

[SI90]

 

[Throttle]

Don't buy any of this at all. He traded him because he felt he was getting more back than what he was giving up. That's what every trade should be and none of it means that Mantha necessarily wanted out or that he wasn't SY's guy or that he thinks that Mantha isn't a very good player now and can't be an even better player later.

Well, if Yzerman felt he was only getting better to help his team, then he probably keeps him. That's from a guy that started his career as the lone bright spot on an dark time in Detroit. Later, he was a scoring machine for that same club. So, I'll go with he feels he peaked and ain't gonna help Detroit, so he flipped him before his value went down. He already knows he's unlikely to get better. When other former NHLers are saying the guy needs a couple of red bulls to get going...sounds like a plan to build around that one.

 

[Matt Watson]

Well, if Yzerman felt he was only getting better to help his team, then he probably keeps him. That's from a guy that started his career as the lone bright spot on an dark time in Detroit. Later, he was a scoring machine for that same club. So, I'll go with he feels he peaked and ain't gonna help Detroit, so he flipped him before his value went down. He already knows he's unlikely to get better. When other former NHLers are saying the guy needs a couple of red bulls to get going...sounds like a plan to build around that one.

Just not true at all. I have this one guy who is very good. Another team wants him and in return they're going to give me back another guy who is very good and a bunch of other stuff too. Good stuff. Hmm, what should I do?

Not every trade is based on a negative evaluation of the asset that is being surrendered.

 

[Throttle]

Just not true at all. I have this one guy who is very good. Another team wants him and in return they're going to give me back another guy who is very good and a bunch of other stuff too. Good stuff. Hmm, what should I do?

Not every trade is based on a negative evaluation of the asset that is being surrendered.

What trade(s) did Yzerman make while in TB that removed a youngish player with perceived upside because another team wanted that player was willing to overpay?

We get it teams usually trade their improving drafted players for prospects while rebuilding...

 

[Matt Watson]

What trade(s) did Yzerman make while in TB that removed a youngish player with perceived upside because another team wanted that player was willing to overpay?

We get it teams usually trade their improving drafted players for prospects while rebuilding...

Comparing Mantha to Drouin is joke. And you are still assuming that SY's entire motive was based on a negative evaluation of Mantha. So does he make that trade if it's just Vrana? We'll never know but you are assuming facts simply not in evidence.

 

[danteipp]

Trotz should definitely take players that have thrived in their role and thrust them into different one.

Come on, you know you want to see Hickey playing wing on the first line. I bet you are just itching to bust that Hickey jersey out again at the new arena.

 

[danteipp]

That is great, but we might see him push open that door and a bunch of #1 overall, Bruins NHL draft ping pong balls come pouring out.

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

Come on, you know you want to see Hickey playing wing on the first line. I bet you are just itching to bust that Hickey jersey out again at the new arena.

Literally holy smokes!

 

[Throttle]

Comparing Mantha to Drouin is joke. And you are still assuming that SY's entire motive was based on a negative evaluation of Mantha. So does he make that trade if it's just Vrana? We'll never know but you are assuming facts simply not in evidence.

I’m assuming that Yzerman did not value the player with his own eyes and when another team said ‘hey, we do’ he was more than happy to make the move.

 

[Hunn]

I'm befuddled by Mantha "potential" talk. A soon-to-be 27 years old, 95 goals over 5 full seasons (admittedly on a bad team), suddenly becoming a 50+ goal scorer? Are there any historical precedents for such a career path?

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

I'm befuddled by Mantha "potential" talk. A soon-to-be 27 years old, 95 goals over 5 full seasons (admittedly on a bad team), suddenly becoming a 50+ goal scorer? Are there any historical precedents for such a career path?

Watch him play, watch him shoot.

For my part, I simply pointed out that there are those around the hockey world who see the potential for a 50-goal scorer in Mantha.

Naturally, that kind of thing is also somewhat dependent on the environment, which will surely be more conducive in Washington than Detroit.

As for the trade, Washington has their reasons, but they decided to pay a very attractive price for a type of player they do not believe they can get in any other manner.

We'll now all have to just sit back and see how it works out for them.

I'm sure as heck hoping it doesn't.

 

[steveat]

My question is...how the TDL would have gone down if Lee was healthy? Would we have gone for a different player or players or would we have still done the exact same thing as what we did....go after Hall, then Palmieri/Zajac?