Speculation: Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2019-20 - "Ross the Boss" Edition

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13th Floor

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Oct 10, 2008
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This argument can only go so far. I’d love to eat crow, I want to see this team win. But they aren’t getting 100+ pts. Last year was last year. Some important variables fell into place that enabled the 103 pts. We can’t say w even moderate certainty that these same variables will come into place. There’s a small margin of error w this team.

The argument can go further than yours because how far does your argument go? No one is betting their house that this team is a shoo-in for a 100+ point season, but what evidence do you have that it isn't and what evidence do we have that it does? We did it last year with Trotz with virtually the same team that started the exact same way last year. There seems to be this feeling that after 1 year of success in 1 attempt with a completely different regime, people would still rather cling to a earlier failures as a proof of future ones.

The truth is we don't know... but you have less of a leg to stand on. Why can't we get a different combination of what we got last year? Lehner started iffy and got good, and so will Varly. Maybe he won't be as good, but maybe some of our players don't have career-low years in their second season with Trotz. Or maybe we get a Toews-like addition from within (and maybe we already saw it) and it has a huge effect. Or our power play is not terrible and we score 10-15 more goals there.

It's been 6 games and people want to throw in the towel and fire our GM after an insanely positive season when everyone's expectations were that we would be absolutely terrible. It's literally been 15 months. How quickly we can forget. All of a sudden they're senile and should step down and let some educated people on this board step in and run things.
 
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Chapin Landvogt

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there was a poster on here that was suggesting a Ladd for Neal trade - can’t remember who, but I responded poorly to his trade suggestion - ;)

Who was it - come out get your medal!

I thought that connection was totally obvious...

But then Ladd got hurt - again.
 

BelovedIsles

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Oct 22, 2005
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The argument can go further than yours because how far does your argument go? No one is betting their house that this team is a shoo-in for a 100+ point season, but what evidence do you have that it isn't and what evidence do we have that it does? We did it last year with Trotz with virtually the same team that started the exact same way last year. There seems to be this feeling that after 1 year of success in 1 attempt with a completely different regime, people would still rather cling to a earlier failures as a proof of future ones.

The truth is we don't know... but you have less of a leg to stand on. Why can't we get a different combination of what we got last year? Lehner started iffy and got good, and so will Varly. Maybe he won't be as good, but maybe some of our players don't have career-low years in their second season with Trotz. Or maybe we get a Toews-like addition from within (and maybe we already saw it) and it has a huge effect. Or our power play is not terrible and we score 10-15 more goals there.

It's been 6 games and people want to throw in the towel and fire our GM after an insanely positive season when everyone's expectations were that we would be absolutely terrible. It's literally been 15 months. How quickly we can forget. All of a sudden they're senile and should step down and let some educated people on this board step in and run things.

Listen 13, I know a good amount of informed NYI fans who have followed this team for 40 years. And I see a lot of the same opinions I hold on this very board.

We’ll see how things turn out. But the banking on ‘well they did it a year ago’ argument doesn’t hold much water for me or many others. No use in arguing it. At the end of the year I’ll either say, I told you so, or eat crow. Trust me, I’d prefer the latter.
 
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Newsworthy

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I agree that expectations were very low for the NYI last season. I doubt Trotz or Lou looked at the roster and said this is a 105 point team with the fifth best record last year.

None of that changes the fact that Lou didn't improve the team. Even if we are a lottery team or tanking you still make transactions to fit the rebuilding process. Such as trading vets to get younger or aquire additional draft picks. At least make a move to remove some dead weight especially players who still have value like Leddy or Boychuk.
We struck out on Tavares and Panarin. Lou probably tried to aquire other big ticket free agents and was turned away. He looked at the trade market and felt the price was too high to obtain what they needed. Or at least that's the speculation. Even though other teams like the Oilers, Devils, Rangers, Knights, Leafs etc didn't sell the farm to fill certain holes.
However GM's sometime need to get creative. At last make an effort to look outside the box.
Brassard as the best forward on you're free agent list is unacceptable. Theres a reason why every team in the league ignored him. Signing him isn't the initial problem its a short term deal for peanuts but expecting him to be a major contributor and having him play big minutes as your number three Center shows me Lou really isnt good at evaluating NHL players. He did the same with Hickey.
And I have no problem with Varlomov but the Islanders had to sign someone to replace Lehner anyways.
 
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Newsworthy

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You know it is possible that Lou has done a great job and made some glaring mistakes, they don't have to be mutually exclusive. He brought in Trotz (which would've never happened under Snow) and changed the culture into a winning roster after our best player bolted. At the same time he simply has not upgraded our offense which by his own admission was the top priority going into last season. I even give him a pass on Panerin- he swung and missed which is going to happen more often than not particularly when we are second banana in this city and don't have a stable arena.

There is still plenty of time for us to upgrade the offense. Whalstrom could prove to be a huge boost and who knows maybe someone like Koivula could add some spark to our third line and bump down one of the grinders into a full time 4th line role. We could also make a trade. But clearly something needs to be done because offensively speaking this team is painful to watch right now.
Exactly how I feel. Excellent post.
 
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buud

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Oct 3, 2017
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I agree that expectations were very low for the NYI last season. I doubt Trotz or Lou looked at the roster and said this is a 105 point team with the fifth best record last year.

None of that changes the fact that Lou didn't improve the team. Even if we are a lottery team or tanking you still make transactions to fit the rebuilding process. Such as trading vets to get younger or aquire additional draft picks. At least make a move to remove some dead weight especially players who still have value like Leddy or Boychu
YOUR expectations were very low.

Both LL and BT stated openly, that they are going to use the year as an evaluation period, to see what they have. Good idea. And how to do this, is to not go making changes right away. I respect them for this, because they were giving the players the chance to start all over, with a fresh slate. No judgement based on prior performance. And, I think it's pretty obvious how good a strategy this was, judging by how the team responded.

You wanted to re-build last year, because of the loss of JT. Trotz and Co., decided to put some faith and encouragement behind the team, and see what they have. It's obvious who was 'right'.

Suck it up. You were wrong. No amount of bitching about them, is going to change that.
 

doublechili

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Apr 11, 2006
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Based on not trading Clutterbuck for James Neal, I think Lou lacks the capacity to step down at this point. We probably need someone to sign papers....

there was a poster on here that was suggesting a Ladd for Neal trade - can’t remember who, but I responded poorly to his trade suggestion - ;)

Who was it - come out get your medal!

Actually, I wasn't suggesting that trade. I was replying to a post about Lou. The joke was that Lou must be senile because he didn't trade Clutterbuck for Neal. The :sarcasm: was implied. Although there probably is a poster somewhere here who thinks Lou is senile because he didn't make that deal....
 
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Shot of Bailey

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Apr 9, 2013
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Great debate and good points made about this teams last 15 months. While we all know the offence needs help, I don't believe pulling off a deal is as easy as we may think. Lou has to find a home for some of the overpriced vets that we have....anyone in their right mind wouldn't take Ladd, Clutterbuck, Martin, Leo, Boychuk with their current contracts.....and we just spent a boat load on inconsistent and over priced guys like Nelson, Eberle and Lee. Cap is an issue and where Lou needs to be creative is trading a couple of these anchor contracts by offering some of our high picks which sucks. Otherwise, we are stuck between a rock and a hard place. I, like most here hope that Lou can make lemonade out of some of these lemons, but not overly optimistic. I don't question Lou's ability to run a franchise as President, I do question his ability to GM in today's game.
 
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PK Cronin

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Feb 11, 2013
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I agree that expectations were very low for the NYI last season. I doubt Trotz or Lou looked at the roster and said this is a 105 point team with the fifth best record last year.

None of that changes the fact that Lou didn't improve the team. Even if we are a lottery team or tanking you still make transactions to fit the rebuilding process. Such as trading vets to get younger or aquire additional draft picks. At least make a move to remove some dead weight especially players who still have value like Leddy or Boychuk.
We struck out on Tavares and Panarin. Lou probably tried to aquire other big ticket free agents and was turned away. He looked at the trade market and felt the price was too high to obtain what they needed. Or at least that's the speculation. Even though other teams like the Oilers, Devils, Rangers, Knights, Leafs etc didn't sell the farm to fill certain holes.
However GM's sometime need to get creative. At last make an effort to look outside the box.
Brassard as the best forward on you're free agent list is unacceptable. Theres a reason why every team in the league ignored him. Signing him isn't the initial problem its a short term deal for peanuts but expecting him to be a major contributor and having him play big minutes as your number three Center shows me Lou really isnt good at evaluating NHL players. He did the same with Hickey.
And I have no problem with Varlomov but the Islanders had to sign someone to replace Lehner anyways.
Every other GM didn't do [x] so Lou stinks!
 

MJF

Hope is not a strategy
Sep 6, 2003
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there was a poster on here that was suggesting a Ladd for Neal trade - can’t remember who, but I responded poorly to his trade suggestion - ;)

Who was it - come out get your medal!
I accept.

I saw Eric Duhatschek mention it on The Athletic last July. Made all the sense in the world. 2 players needing a change of scenery. Neal was a healthy scratch for the playoffs and Ladd has connections to Calgary from his juniors days, and I got smacked down for it here because everyone thought Neal was washed up so what's the point? :laugh:
 
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boredmale

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I accept.

I saw Eric Duhatschek mention it on The Athletic last July. Made all the sense in the world. 2 players needing a change of scenery. Neal was a healthy scratch for the playoffs and Ladd has connections to Calgary from his juniors days, and I got smacked down for it here because everyone thought Neal was washed up so what's the point? :laugh:

I could be wrong here but I don't think that trade gets made in July unless the Islanders add(Neal was 1 year removed from a good season while Ladd was 3 and injury prone to boot)
 
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IslandersFan17

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Jun 8, 2011
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You know it is possible that Lou has done a great job and made some glaring mistakes, they don't have to be mutually exclusive. He brought in Trotz (which would've never happened under Snow) and changed the culture into a winning roster after our best player bolted. At the same time he simply has not upgraded our offense which by his own admission was the top priority going into last season. I even give him a pass on Panerin- he swung and missed which is going to happen more often than not particularly when we are second banana in this city and don't have a stable arena.

There is still plenty of time for us to upgrade the offense. Whalstrom could prove to be a huge boost and who knows maybe someone like Koivula could add some spark to our third line and bump down one of the grinders into a full time 4th line role. We could also make a trade. But clearly something needs to be done because offensively speaking this team is painful to watch right now.
Missing on Panarin is one thing, not when you are the experienced and all hailed GM that Lou is. Lou didn't see the forest for the trees and was played. Only then to over pay Lee, and do absolutely nothing else to help the offense.
 
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MJF

Hope is not a strategy
Sep 6, 2003
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I could be wrong here but I don't think that trade gets made in July unless the Islanders add(Neal was 1 year removed from a good season while Ladd was 3 and injury prone to boot)
I think the offset was Neal’s salary vs Ladd’s. But yeah we would have had to add to the deal.
 

Duanesutter12

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Jul 8, 2013
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Missing on Panarin is one thing, not when you are the experienced and all hailed GM that Lou is. Lou didn't see the forest for the trees and was played. Only then to over pay Lee, and do absolutely nothing else to help the offense.
I see your looking at the positive side of things!
 

scott99

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May 13, 2005
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Missing on Panarin is one thing, not when you are the experienced and all hailed GM that Lou is. Lou didn't see the forest for the trees and was played. Only then to over pay Lee, and do absolutely nothing else to help the offense.
I disagree 100%. Lou tried everything to get Panarin. Hall of Fame GM or not, when a player is dead set on playing for a certain team, all you can do is try your best to change their mind. It came out afterwards that Panarin's girlfriend AND agent wanted him to take the deal from the Islanders. I would say Lou did all he could do with Panarin. I wouldn't say he got played. He tried to fill a major need.
 
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Mr Misunderstood

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Apr 11, 2016
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Saw the Minny stuff with Guerin saying he's open to any offers and immediately thought of Parise.

But holy smokes he's signed until the end of 2025 when he'll be 40 for a cap hit of $7.5mm AAV! SHEESH
 
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Chapin Landvogt

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Jul 4, 2002
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None of that changes the fact that Lou didn't improve the team.

Well, technically, the jury is out whether Varlamov will be an improvement on Lehner and Brassard will be an improvement on Filppula.

And the jury is also out on our new PP coach, who has quite the track record in comparison to Gomez.

We're only six games into the season.

BTW, I see plenty of teams who added a BIG name to "improve the team" who aren't benefiting right off the bat (i.e. Kessel in Arizona, Bobrovsky in Florida)

Even if we are a lottery team or tanking you still make transactions to fit the rebuilding process. Such as trading vets to get younger or aquire additional draft picks. At least make a move to remove some dead weight especially players who still have value like Leddy or Boychuk.

Who says all that?

Is that in that book "NHL GMing for Dummies"?

And since when are we rebuilding? Is that what it's called when the Face of the Franchise walks away for nothing?

Does getting younger mean getting better? I mean, we've added a center who is younger than Filppula. We've added Dal Colle full time (thus far) and the team has gone with Dobson over Hickey. And Wahlstrom already made his debut. Dobson and Wahlstrom aren't even 20 yet!

Did you think about how improving from within could be a viable option? We've got plenty of veterans to help mold those kids and show them where the wind blows, but those guys make us a bit younger.

And as for Leddy and Boychuk, what has you calling them dead weight? We are a MARKEDLY different team without these guys in the line-up. Sheesh, the record alone that this team has had with Boychuk in the line-up since his arrival in comparison to without is incredible. And I just can't get that picture out of my head right now, you know, where he kept the puck in the zone and then dove to push it to Barzal, who's pass ricocheted into the net for that 2-2 goal against St. Louis. The man is our purest warrior.

One thing I think all long-term NHL watchers have picked up along the way is that you don't make changes just for the sake of making changes. If you have something that works, you keep it together and just tweak it here and there. When you're close to the cup, that's when it may be wise to perhaps pay a good chunk to get that one guy who puts you over the top.

We struck out on Tavares and Panarin.

Indeed, and that kind of thing alone can put a team behind the 8 ball.

Lou probably tried to aquire other big ticket free agents and was turned away. He looked at the trade market and felt the price was too high to obtain what they needed. Or at least that's the speculation.

Or simply little more than conjecture.


Brassard as the best forward on you're free agent list is unacceptable. Theres a reason why every team in the league ignored him. Signing him isn't the initial problem its a short term deal for peanuts but expecting him to be a major contributor and having him play big minutes as your number three Center shows me Lou really isnt good at evaluating NHL players.

Oh, is that what the Brassard signing shows you?

Because it shows me that for a spit in the bucket, they got a guy with a strong career history of PP production and face-off capability who can play on the left as well while giving primarily Koivula and Jobst time on the farm to make themselves an NHL option.

I know you and many others wanted more high profile players as a sign of this team "improving". I wanted Panarin. And if he wasn't coming, I wanted a Johansson or Dzingel type for that LW side on line 2. But I'll tell you what was frigging handcuffing us - and would have handcuffed any GM in hockey. It's the fact that 4 of our most important players were UFAs. This team absolutely could not take the chance of missing out on many of these guys while hunting for other UFAs out there, perhaps ending up with none of them.

To get Eberle and Nelson to those contracts, and keep a huge part of our identity while bringing in a Lehner-comparable goalie whose deal basically wraps up Sorokin as well was nothing short of extremely astute.

And you can't forget that EVERY financial transaction made this summer was with an eye on the budget for resigning Barzal and Pulock next summer, hopefully long term.

We'll once again see what Trotz can do with the current crew and must hope that Lou will be able to get something done, if the situation calls for it.
 

notDatsyuk

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Jul 20, 2018
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And some people assume Lou has avoided making dumb moves when he could have made smart moves.
Make a move to make the team better.
Bringing in Brassard was another lazy move by the clueless one. Add in Hickey and Varlomov. So far he's batting 1000.
You don't always know if a move will work or not. Getting Filppula and Komarov last year worked out very well. Brassard might be another, although it doesn't look so good yet. Same with Varlamov, and I think he's more likely to come through.
 

pursuit81

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Apr 12, 2018
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....................... and must hope that Lou will be able to get something done, if the situation calls for it.
I agree with most of your post, but there is no "if" about it. Our offensive is terrible and we will not be truly competitive until it is addressed one way or another, which in no way means I am joining the "just do something" crazies. I appreciate that Lou has not given up valuable assets out of desperation and know that he otherwise has had a weak hand to play in the trade market. We should all be willing to acknowledge that. Perhaps the emergence of Beau, the introduction of Wahly and Barzal becoming a more complete player will put our O on an upward trajectory, but make no mistake, the situation absolutely calls for it if want to be in the Cup conversation.

Just not sure Lou can do anything about it in the short run.
 
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YearlyLottery

The Pooch Report
Feb 7, 2013
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I disagree 100%. Lou tried everything to get Panarin. Hall of Fame GM or not, when a player is dead set on playing for a certain team, all you can do is try your best to change their mind. It came out afterwards that Panarin's girlfriend AND agent wanted him to take the deal from the Islanders. I would say Lou did all he could do with Panarin. I wouldn't say he got played. He tried to fill a major need.

I never Knew that about Panarin. Where did you hear that?
 
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