Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2019-20 Pt. V

[SayItAintSoJohnny]

Of course it's possible, but are these our expectations around here? To try and "sneak in the playoffs" yet again? I thought we improved them when we got rid of wang/snow/capuano/weight.

Of course it is...with the hope of course that Cizikas will be back and Clutterbuck as well as some reinforcements. Losing Pelech was a very tough blow to this team- followed by now two members of our identity line. So yes, the hope is to sneak in and playing like we were earlier in the season....

 

[periferal]

The biggest issue with us and the trade market is that NYI management let their franchise player walk for nothing.

He should have had his unsigned ass shipped out at the 2018 trade deadline. Those assets we would have gotten back would either be helping our team win, or could be used as trade chips to get us NHL talent.

That mishap probably sent this team back seasons as we don't have much to trade that wouldn't deplete the farm or big league roster.

 

[YearlyLottery]

Doesn't that prove my point?

The way you are writing your posts makes it seem Trotz isn’t all that amazing lol.

 

[Chardo]

Didn't we do that LAST YEAR? Did I miss something? Where's the great step forward this year?

We have injuries this year we did not have last year and it exposed our Achilles Heel, we have to have everyone healthy and playing well and last year that STILL got us spanked by Carolina. And how did last year's Eastern Conference final run help Carolina THIS YEAR? I must be watching a different NHL than others are!

Their attendance is up 2500 per game over last year.

 

[IslesCLT]

To think...a mere week ago we were on cloud 9 after beating Washington and Philly B2B. Now we apparently need to be sellers and bring up our AHL kids that can't score at that level and blow it all up.

Wow.

 

[periferal]

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If we lose in round one, it is still playoff experience with the core. Building to a larger goal.

Even if you are not ready to win the cup, making and competing in the playoffs is not all for naught.

Ain't gonna complain with that logic, but now to complete your example...Go and compare those teams' Stanley Cup Championship rosters to the Isles current roster. Not in the same ballpark.

Lack of (high end) talent, not experience, is the biggest problem we have. Add another 5 years of playoff experience to this roster and they still ain't winning a Cup.

 

[leeroggy]

The way you are writing your posts makes it seem Trotz isn’t all that amazing lol.

Was Ken Hitchcock's record any different? Keenan? Others who emphasized defense first, second and third? Our friend in Columbus? Pat Burns? The fact is that the coaches who won the MOST Cups did not favor one over the other but sought balance between offense and defense. Whether the name is Arbour, Bowman, Blake, Sather, etc., they did not make one way or the other the ONLY WAY to win. Not just this sport either. Belichick, Wooden, Stengel, etc., were most successful when maximizing what they were dealt, not attempting to fit a round peg into a square hole.

 

[leeroggy]

Their attendance is up 2500 per game over last year.

Great, that really counts in the standings!

 

[IslesCLT]

Great, that really counts in the standings!

Have you ever run a business???

 

[leeroggy]

Have you ever run a business???

Don't go there. Two pages back I was told not to run this team like a business!

And yes I do. Two of them.

 

[SayItAintSoJohnny]

Great, that really counts in the standings!

No but an identical record at the same time from last season is reflected in the standings...

 

[Chardo]

Great, that really counts in the standings!

Don't discount the importance of attendance to their owners. Think the Islanders owners would just shrug it off? Think they don't imagine themselves getting that bump if they had won?

 

[leeroggy]

So where's the improvement after last year's great learning experience?

 

[brachyrynchos]

Barry Trotz Career Record

Nashville - 15 years
8 playoff appearances, TWO first round wins
Team goes to the Stanley Cup finals after he leaves

Washington - 4 years
3 first round losses and One Cup - the ONLY time he got to the Conference final too

Maybe Lou should have some input on the kids getting their shot? How many of us will be happy 8 years from now with no second round victory? He made them consistent in Nashville, probably due to the style of play. But it didn't get very far in Nashville did it?

And the last time Barry won anything before that was with the Portland Pirates (Calder), the same year we had Hextall in net.
2 years later he made it to the '96 Finals again. Losing to Rochester and their coach John Tortorella.
Some tough playoff matchups in Nashville didn't help, not entirely his fault they lost but lack of offense started to be the issue.
I was one Barry's critics when he was with Washington. The Turtle was strong there, even with more offensively skilled players, it was frustrating at times. I remember one player calling Trotz's system "robotic" and "overthinking". Throughout his final season, fans (myself included) wanted him fired...President trophies didn't mean anything.
His style doesn't allow much creativity or risk, it's just how he is.

 

[leeroggy]

Don't discount the importance of attendance to their owners. Think the Islanders owners would just shrug it off? Think they don't imagine themselves getting that bump if they had won?

Sports franchises that make profits are a bonus. These teams are bought by very wealthy people who are satisfying their desires to compete against other very wealthy people.

 

[leeroggy]

And the last time Barry won anything before that was with the Portland Pirates (Calder), the same year we had Hextall in net.
2 years later he made it to the '96 Finals again. Losing to Rochester and their coach John Tortorella.
Some tough playoff matchups in Nashville didn't help, not entirely his fault they lost but lack of offense started to be the issue.
I was one Barry's critics when he was with Washington. The Turtle was strong there, even with more offensively skilled players, it was frustrating at times. I remember one player calling Trotz's system "robotic" and "overthinking". Throughout his final season, fans (myself included) wanted him fired...President trophies didn't mean anything.
His style doesn't allow much creativity or risk, it's just how he is.

And that fits with what I am arguing. We already know our player's upsides, with the possible exception of Beau. We've seen PPG Barzal already. Lee will not score 40 goals again. Eberle is not going to put up more points, nor is Bailey. Nelson is close to maxing out. There's no upside left there.

Was Trotz lowballed by the Capitals because they had tired of him? Thought he was too stubborn? That was always a strange ending there. The owner is a billionaire, the amount to pay him wasn't an issue to the owner solely on a dollar basis. Something happened there that never surfaced.

The 3rd and 4th lines can not be placeholders for time on the ice when we have this Top 6. If Beau and Bailey were 3rd liners that's a different story, but they aren't.

 

[SayItAintSoJohnny]

So where's the improvement after last year's great learning experience?

It was at 25-10-3, a 5 point improvement from the previous season...but as we have pointed out repeatedly...then we lost Pelech, we were already without Clutterbuck since before Christmas, we were already without Hickey and of course we now lost Cizikas, who had just missed 8 games prior.

Perhaps we should wait for the final two dozen before making the "where's the improvement" question, since we have identical records from last season despite the injuries??

 

[Mr Misunderstood]

Ain't gonna complain with that logic, but now to complete your example...Go and compare those teams' Stanley Cup Championship rosters to the Isles current roster. Not in the same ballpark.

Lack of (high end) talent, not experience, is the biggest problem we have. Add another 5 years of playoff experience to this roster and they still ain't winning a Cup.

Completely agree. Those teams definitely did, but they also realized some reasons why ,although they had the talent, they could not get over the hump and made changes.
09 Pens = + Kunitz + Bylsma - Therrien
11 B's = + Horton - Kessel
12 Kings = + Sutter
18 Caps = + Trotz + Oshie (few years earlier)
19 Blues = + ROR + Berube

We are not yet at the stage to make moves such as those.

 

[PK Cronin]

For crying out loud, do you not understand the difference between correlation and coincidence?

Unless you are REPEATING, EVERY team that wins the Cup LOST the previous year in the playoffs or made the leap from non-playoff team directly to the Cup, which KILLS your theory right then.

If I lost with Coach A and won the next year with Coach B it's more likely it's the coaching change, NOT the losing playoffs that helped the most. Do you think all those bad losses by the Capitals was more important than bringing in Trotz to put them over the top?

Or trading for Reilly that made the difference in St. Louis?

WAKE UP!

As far as our Dynasty is concerned it wasn't the losing playoffs that made the difference, it was the a trade that BALANCED the offense, not letting a team gang up on our 1st line.

You're oversimplifying things. I believe St. Louis was the first team to win the cup in the current era without having made the playoffs the previous season. They also made it how many times before then? It matters. It's experience that players can use and learn from, it's experience that coaches, GM's, and owners can use too. Which players are working, which aren't? Is the style too stiff or too loose? You can assemble a great group of players, but without a coach to lead them they'll fail. Same thing with a great coach and crappy players. Maybe Ovechkin doesn't listen to Trotz in year three of his career, but after heartbreaking season after heartbreaking season, he does.

Only one team wins the cup every year. Making sure you get to the dance every year goes a long way to helping you win it once.

 

[leeroggy]

It was at 25-10-3, a 5 point improvement from the previous season...but as we have pointed out repeatedly...then we lost Pelech, we were already without Clutterbuck since before Christmas, we were already without Hickey and of course we now lost Cizikas, who had just missed 8 games prior.

Perhaps we should wait for the final two dozen before making the "where's the improvement" question, since we have identical records from last season despite the injuries??

Carolina was the team I was responding about in that comment.

 

[BrockLobster]

So where's the improvement after last year's great learning experience?

They have a similar record and this season isnt over yet.

 

[leeroggy]

It was at 25-10-3, a 5 point improvement from the previous season...but as we have pointed out repeatedly...then we lost Pelech, we were already without Clutterbuck since before Christmas, we were already without Hickey and of course we now lost Cizikas, who had just missed 8 games prior.

Perhaps we should wait for the final two dozen before making the "where's the improvement" question, since we have identical records from last season despite the injuries??

But since you insist, this makes a point. We WERE HEALTHY last year, abnormally so. This season is more likely to repeat and we DON'T have the DEPTH.

Pittsburgh lost plenty of high end players to lengthy injuries and they were able to compensate. We aren't compensating.

 

[2ndGenIslander]

This team needs offensive pieces so, so badly and Lous not giving it to them. Really sad to see

 

[leeroggy]

And Pittsburgh gave Jarry his chance and Marino his chance. How is Marino thriving more than Dobson right now? Marino was drafted 154th and is 22.

They GOT A CHANCE and aren't benched every time they make a mistake.

 

[PK Cronin]

And that fits with what I am arguing. We already know our player's upsides, with the possible exception of Beau. We've seen PPG Barzal already. Lee will not score 40 goals again. Eberle is not going to put up more points, nor is Bailey. Nelson is close to maxing out. There's no upside left there.

Was Trotz lowballed by the Capitals because they had tired of him? Thought he was too stubborn? That was always a strange ending there. The owner is a billionaire, the amount to pay him wasn't an issue to the owner solely on a dollar basis. Something happened there that never surfaced.

The 3rd and 4th lines can not be placeholders for time on the ice when we have this Top 6. If Beau and Bailey were 3rd liners that's a different story, but they aren't.

The Capitals were grooming Todd Rierden to be the coach and didn't think they were going to lose much by getting rid of Trotz. They decided they were going to get rid of him before they won the cup, then they won, and that complicated things. That's about it.