Speculation: Rumors/Speculation/General Discussion XVII

[Johnny GODreau]

Same roster minus Hudler, Jones and Russell yeah.

God that forward core scares me so bad.

Yeah, I revised it a bit. Dropped Colborne, traded Stajan for Hartnell and signed Boyd Gordon as an extra C.

 

[SKRusty]

I doubt they sign Gaudreau long term and ask Monny to sign for 2 years, quite the insult.

And I think you are dreaming if you think Gaudreau to accept a AAV of $6M unless it is a bridge deal. Saad got 6 years, at $6M, and Johnny is among the NHL's scoring leaders.

If it's an 8 year deal, it will be about $7.5M. As you subtract years, the amount will go down per year, as you cover less UFA years.

Monny is the one that will want to go short. He will want a larger payday after he has brought it. Add to that Trevling stated the organization as a whole strongly believes in show me contracts after the ELC.

Saad has 2 Stanley Cups. Saad brings things in his game Johnny can't do physically. Add to that Saad had a year more experience in the NHL and is used on the PK. Saad was drafted 2 rounds earlier. All this matters at contract time.

Benn and Seguin both make less than what I mentioned for Johnny. Pavelski makes 6. At this point Johnny is a good young talent. He has yet to put himself into the elite category.

I would put him on par with Benn, Saad, and Landeskog.

With a flat cap salaries are not rising. Anymore than 6.5 and Trevling should look to sit or trade Johnny. Calgary does not need to sign a Vanek, Kessel, or Clarkson type of deal.

 

[Johnny GODreau]

Dennis Wideman and Drew Shore to FLA for 1st'16, Michael Downing and Joe Wegwerth

Matt Stajan and Tyler Wotherspoon to CLB for Scotty Hartnell and Dalton Prout

Hows the value?

 

[Flames Fanatic]

Monny is the one that will want to go short. He will want a larger payday after he has brought it. Add to that Trevling stated the organization as a whole strongly believes in show me contracts after the ELC.

Saad has 2 Stanley Cups. Saad brings things in his game Johnny can't do physically. Add to that Saad had a year more experience in the NHL and is used on the PK. Saad was drafted 2 rounds earlier. All this matters at contract time.

Benn and Seguin both make less than what I mentioned for Johnny. Pavelski makes 6. At this point Johnny is a good young talent. He has yet to put himself into the elite category.

I would put him on par with Benn, Saad, and Landeskog.

With a flat cap salaries are not rising. Anymore than 6.5 and Trevling should look to sit or trade Johnny. Calgary does not need to sign a Vanek, Kessel, or Clarkson type of deal.

Saad also put up less points with better linemates. On better offensive teams. He's never put up the kind of numbers Johnny did in his rookie season for crying out loud. Saad also gets 28 seconds per game of SH time this year with Columbus and 1:04 last year. Johnny creates far more offense than Saad can by himself. As someone who loves advanced stats, you should know that.

Seguin and Benn signed those deals before they exploded to what they are today, not to mention when the cap was much smaller.

When Benn signed his deal he was coming off a 63 point season while playing with a 70 point Eriksson and a 60+ point Riberio. The salary cap was 64.3 million.

When Seguin signed his deal he was coming off of 32 points season (lockout season) and 67 points the year before that, playing with once again better linemates than Gaudreau has had in Bergeron and Marchand (on a Stanley cup winning team to boot). Once again the salary cap was 64.3 million.

So even if you factor in the difference in salary cap percentage wise, and then apply it to those two contracts, its pretty close to 6.5 million.

If Johnny finishes top ten in scoring (quite probable) he is pretty damn near that elite category. Especially considering how defunct our PP has been for most of the season.

The fact you have Benn, Saad and Landeskog all on the same tier is way off base. Benn is light years ahead both of the other two.

As to the bolded, if Treliving manages to sign Johnny for 8 years at 6.5 I'll kiss him full on the lips. When "franchise players" (granted with Stanley cups) start getting salaries north of 10 million (or even the guys in the 8-10 range) Johnny at 6.5 is a god damn steal.

You have to adjust to where the league is now, not the nearly 5 years ago that those deals were signed. It took me a while to get over that star players make 7 million (Iggy) mentality too.

Edit: Also to keep in mind when looking up the points I mentioned when Seguin and Benn signed those deals. The leading scorer the year before had 109 points. There were also 8 other players that broke 80 points.

Last years leading scorer was 87 points and only 5 players broke over 80.

Getting a PPG is becoming a rarity lately outside of the superstars. So if Johnny is on pace to create that kind of offense, you have to keep it.

 

[AgeOfBennett]

Monny is the one that will want to go short. He will want a larger payday after he has brought it. Add to that Trevling stated the organization as a whole strongly believes in show me contracts after the ELC.

Saad has 2 Stanley Cups. Saad brings things in his game Johnny can't do physically. Add to that Saad had a year more experience in the NHL and is used on the PK. Saad was drafted 2 rounds earlier. All this matters at contract time.

Benn and Seguin both make less than what I mentioned for Johnny. Pavelski makes 6. At this point Johnny is a good young talent. He has yet to put himself into the elite category.

I would put him on par with Benn, Saad, and Landeskog.

With a flat cap salaries are not rising. Anymore than 6.5 and Trevling should look to sit or trade Johnny. Calgary does not need to sign a Vanek, Kessel, or Clarkson type of deal.

we aren't gonna ****ing trade johnny gaudreau. No. just no. He is gonna get a pay day because he deserves it, and you have to accept that. He has been in the top 10 of scoring pretty much all year long. You don't just trade players like that.

 

[SKRusty]

we aren't gonna ****ing trade johnny gaudreau. No. just no. He is gonna get a pay day because he deserves it, and you have to accept that. He has been in the top 10 of scoring pretty much all year long. You don't just trade players like that.

That's what they said about this player too. Pay him he deserves it.

2009-2010 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL 70 30 25 55 21 |
USA OG 6 1 1 2 0 |
2010-2011 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL 82 32 32 64 24 |
2011-2012 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL 82 37 45 82 20 |
2012-2013 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL 48 20 32 52 18 | Playoffs 7 4 2 6 2
2013-2014 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL 82 37 43 80 27 |

And the rest as we all know is history. Phil's contract was one of the worst ever signed. Johnny has 2 years under his belt not the 7 Phil had. Anything more than 6.5 M is over paid.

Phil's post ELC contract was for 5.4 M. As I said the Flames don't need greedy players. Brodie, Gio, Hamilton, and Frolik all signed reasonable contracts. I doubt Johnny would push for the heavens.

Johnny is not the centerpiece of the offense. That will be either Sam or Sean. In time we will know. Johnny is a great player but he is not the lynch pin.

Another thing to note is that Dougie's AAV is 5.75M and he is one of the corner stones of the future. Brodie 4.65M. There is no way Trevling is breaking the bank for Gaudreau.

 

[SKRusty]

Saad also put up less points with better linemates. On better offensive teams. He's never put up the kind of numbers Johnny did in his rookie season for crying out loud. Saad also gets 28 seconds per game of SH time this year with Columbus and 1:04 last year. Johnny creates far more offense than Saad can by himself. As someone who loves advanced stats, you should know that.

Seguin and Benn signed those deals before they exploded to what they are today, not to mention when the cap was much smaller.

When Benn signed his deal he was coming off a 63 point season while playing with a 70 point Eriksson and a 60+ point Riberio. The salary cap was 64.3 million.

When Seguin signed his deal he was coming off of 32 points season (lockout season) and 67 points the year before that, playing with once again better linemates than Gaudreau has had in Bergeron and Marchand (on a Stanley cup winning team to boot). Once again the salary cap was 64.3 million.

So even if you factor in the difference in salary cap percentage wise, and then apply it to those two contracts, its pretty close to 6.5 million.

If Johnny finishes top ten in scoring (quite probable) he is pretty damn near that elite category. Especially considering how defunct our PP has been for most of the season.

The fact you have Benn, Saad and Landeskog all on the same tier is way off base. Benn is light years ahead both of the other two.

As to the bolded, if Treliving manages to sign Johnny for 8 years at 6.5 I'll kiss him full on the lips. When "franchise players" (granted with Stanley cups) start getting salaries north of 10 million (or even the guys in the 8-10 range) Johnny at 6.5 is a god damn steal.

You have to adjust to where the league is now, not the nearly 5 years ago that those deals were signed. It took me a while to get over that star players make 7 million (Iggy) mentality too.

Edit: Also to keep in mind when looking up the points I mentioned when Seguin and Benn signed those deals. The leading scorer the year before had 109 points. There were also 8 other players that broke 80 points.

Last years leading scorer was 87 points and only 5 players broke over 80.

Getting a PPG is becoming a rarity lately outside of the superstars. So if Johnny is on pace to create that kind of offense, you have to keep it.

One of these days Johnny will be worth 7.5 -8.5 M a year but it is not now while he is a RFA.

There are three forwards under 27 making over 6.5M NONE are LW. ROR, Terasenko, and Voracheck. Tarasenko and Voracheck are RW's. Voracheck signed his big contract after 7 years and Terasenko after 3. ROR received his big contract after 6 years. Right wingers and Centers both get paid a higher premium.

Tarasenko and Voracheck both eclipsed 30 goals to get those contracts. They are 2 of the leagues best snipers. ROR is likely one of the most versatile players in the NHL all 3 forward positions, excels both offensively and defensively, PP and PK.

Now can Johnny do the things of those three guys today?

Nope there is no way Johnny will be paid anything north of 6.5 M. Nothing you guys say change the facts.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

One of these days Johnny will be worth 7.5 -8.5 M a year but it is not now while he is a RFA.

There are three forwards under 27 making over 6.5M NONE are LW. ROR, Terasenko, and Voracheck. Tarasenko and Voracheck are RW's. Voracheck signed his big contract after 7 years and Terasenko after 3. ROR received his big contract after 6 years. Right wingers and Centers both get paid a higher premium.

Tarasenko and Voracheck both eclipsed 30 goals to get those contracts. They are 2 of the leagues best snipers. ROR is likely one of the most versatile players in the NHL all 3 forward positions, excels both offensively and defensively, PP and PK.

Now can Johnny do the things of those three guys today?

Nope there is no way Johnny will be paid anything north of 6.5 M. Nothing you guys say changes my opinion.

Fixed the bolded for you. Just because you are using facts to back up your opinion doesn't mean that your opinion is fact.

Both those players received those contracts after finishing in the top of the NHL in points.

How contracts are being signed during the RFA vs FA timeperiod is evolving if you haven't noticed. Lots of young guys getting a ton of money because they have "potential". Well Johnny is a young guy who is proving he is more than just potential. Have to keep that in mind as well.

Again, using Barkov as an example, he just got six million a year essentially and he's going mostly off defensive prowess as his offensive game is still evolving. Monahan has proven far more offensively and less defensively, so why should he not be in line for a similar deal? They've been in the NHL a similar time.

Could it be beneficial for the Flames to lock him up to a bridge contract? Yeah sure. But I'd rather we lock him up for term and give him money than do a three year deal and then have to lock him up closer to 9-10 million after the bridge deal if he continues to score in the top ten in the NHL.

Just my two cents though.

 

[SKRusty]

Fixed the bolded for you. Just because you are using facts to back up your opinion doesn't mean that your opinion is fact.

Both those players received those contracts after finishing in the top of the NHL in points.

How contracts are being signed during the RFA vs FA timeperiod is evolving if you haven't noticed. Lots of young guys getting a ton of money because they have "potential". Well Johnny is a young guy who is proving he is more than just potential. Have to keep that in mind as well.

Again, using Barkov as an example, he just got six million a year essentially and he's going mostly off defensive prowess as his offensive game is still evolving. Monahan has proven far more offensively and less defensively, so why should he not be in line for a similar deal? They've been in the NHL a similar time.

Could it be beneficial for the Flames to lock him up to a bridge contract? Yeah sure. But I'd rather we lock him up for term and give him money than do a three year deal and then have to lock him up closer to 9-10 million after the bridge deal if he continues to score in the top ten in the NHL.

Just my two cents though.

FF that's what they said about Phil. Phil eclipsed 30 goals 5 out of 6 seasons before he signed the monster contract. Phil at 6 - 6.5 M a year is a good deal but Phil at 8 M became an albatross for both him and the Leaf's.

Now I am not insinuating Johnny has any of Phil's bad traits.

There are some issues there however.
1.) His height makes him more susceptible to head injuries.
2.) How will his body stand up to the wear and tear from playing against much larger players?

These are real concerns that need to be heeded.

Johnny being the humble guy he is I think would be more than happy being the 2nd - 3rd highest paid under 25 player. The only person under 25 making more than 6M a year is Tarasenko.

 

[Fig]

Dennis Wideman and Drew Shore to FLA for 1st'16, Michael Downing and Joe Wegwerth

Matt Stajan and Tyler Wotherspoon to CLB for Scotty Hartnell and Dalton Prout

Hows the value?

Minor quip... would Florida want Shore back? We did trade Knight for him.

 

[Lunatik]

Minor quip... would Florida want Shore back? We did trade Knight for him.

why would they want Knight back, they already traded him to us for a pick

 

[Johnny GODreau]

Minor quip... would Florida want Shore back? We did trade Knight for him.

Big body RH-shot familiar face

What about value though?

 

[Lunatik]

Big body RH-shot familiar face

What about value though?

neither team considers those trades for a second before laughing at treliving

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Johnny's best contract comparable is Taresenko.

 

[Fig]

why would they want Knight back, they already traded him to us for a pick

True. Generally though, we don't often see who teams send players back and forth.

 

[moon*]

I feel like the way the season is going we are gonna pick fourth and miss out on Matthews and the Finns, but yeah if we got either one of them I would be ecstatic

It wouldn't be the end of the world as we could draft Chychrun and have a great piece to fill out our top 4 on a reasonable deal so we could spend more on our forwards in FA or he could potentially replace Gio and we could use Gio as a piece to bring back 1 or 2 pieces to fill out our top 6.

I think a top 3 pick is nice but really a top 5 pick (Chychrun or Tkachuk) should be the real goal. Obviously still nice players (especially a guy like Gauthier that fits exactly what we are looking for just more questions if he reaches that potential) 6-10 but really that top 5 has the guys that I think really help this team.

 

[AgeOfBennett]

It wouldn't be the end of the world as we could draft Chychrun and have a great piece to fill out our top 4 on a reasonable deal so we could spend more on our forwards in FA or he could potentially replace Gio and we could use Gio as a piece to bring back 1 or 2 pieces to fill out our top 6.

I think a top 3 pick is nice but really a top 5 pick (Chychrun or Tkachuk) should be the real goal. Obviously still nice players (especially a guy like Gauthier that fits exactly what we are looking for just more questions if he reaches that potential) 6-10 but really that top 5 has the guys that I think really help this team.

don't think we'll be trading him anytime soon. we just committed to him for another 6 years. it doesn't look good on the flames organization to trade him after giving him a new contract, and he is our captain.

 

[moon*]

don't think we'll be trading him anytime soon. we just committed to him for another 6 years. it doesn't look good on the flames organization to trade him after giving him a new contract, and he is our captain.

Probably not but a fan can hope.

 

[AgeOfBennett]

Probably not but a fan can hope.

you want us to trade an elite defensemen? ok...

You also don't think Gaudreau is anything special, I'm really starting to wonder if you're actually a fan

 

[moon*]

you want us to trade an elite defensemen? ok...

You also don't think Gaudreau is anything special, I'm really starting to wonder if you're actually a fan

I don't think that Giordano is elite and certainly don't think he will be elite in the later half of his deal.

I don't want to trade him for magic beans I want to move him to either a. get younger (ie. Hamonic) while not losing much/anything or b. to address our huge hole in the top 6 after adding a stud d prospect (Chychrun).

I mean it would be great to move our crap to address our needs but likely we are going to have to move out good pieces to get good pieces back and with his age, contract and our potential strength defensively (Hamilton/Brodie/ in my scenario Chychrun) Gio could be the odd man out.

 

[SKRusty]

I don't think that Giordano is elite and certainly don't think he will be elite in the later half of his deal.

I don't want to trade him for magic beans I want to move him to either a. get younger (ie. Hamonic) while not losing much/anything or b. to address our huge hole in the top 6 after adding a stud d prospect (Chychrun).

I mean it would be great to move our crap to address our needs but likely we are going to have to move out good pieces to get good pieces back and with his age, contract and our potential strength defensively (Hamilton/Brodie/ in my scenario Chychrun) Gio could be the odd man out.

Wow .. Gio is worth being on the roster just from a leadership perspective.

Gio was a Norris candidate just 1 year ago. That is about as elite as they come. Will Gio fall down the depth chart in 3 to 4 years ... Yes but he will still be contributing.

More importantly though it will be through his leadership that the Flames will achieve greatness. Suffice it to say there are very few that have walked in Gio's shoes to make it into the NHL.. And even fewer that have achieved Gio's level of play and leadership.

For those that are having issues grasping the game of hockey here is a link:
http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/hockey-for-dummies-cheat-sheet.html

 

[Sparky93]

Gaudreau-Monahan-Beau Bennett
Jonathan Drouin-Bennett-Frolik
Colin Wilson-Jankowski-Austin Watson
Bouma-Stajan-Ferland

Giordano-Brodie
Ian McCoshen-Hamilton
Nakladal-Engelland
Smid

Ramo
Poulin

-Wideman to the Canucks for Hamhuis
-Hamhuis + Colborne to the Panthers for McCoshen + 2nd
-Backlund + Hudler to the Preds for Wilson, Watson + 2nd
-2016 1st(top 5 protected), Klimchuk, Preds 2nd + Panthers 2nd for Drouin
-Granlund + Russell/3rd to the Pens for Bennett

 

[Johnny GODreau]

Gaudreau-Monahan-Beau Bennett
Jonathan Drouin-Bennett-Frolik
Colin Wilson-Jankowski-Austin Watson
Bouma-Stajan-Ferland

Giordano-Brodie
Ian McCoshen-Hamilton
Nakladal-Engelland
Smid

Ramo
Poulin

-Wideman to the Canucks for Hamhuis
-Hamhuis + Colborne to the Panthers for McCoshen + 2nd
-Backlund + Hudler to the Preds for Wilson, Watson + 2nd
-2016 1st(top 5 protected), Klimchuk, Preds 2nd + Panthers 2nd for Drouin
-Granlund + Russell/3rd to the Pens for Bennett

Beau Bennett's always broken. Canucks aren't going to trade us Hamhuis that's a lateral move at best. That's a terrible return for Hudler, And I wouldn't trade the #6 pick for Drouin straight up.

 

[SmellOfVictory]

Dennis Wideman and Drew Shore to FLA for 1st'16, Michael Downing and Joe Wegwerth

Matt Stajan and Tyler Wotherspoon to CLB for Scotty Hartnell and Dalton Prout

Hows the value?

I don't know who Michael Downing and Joe Wegwerth are, but that Florida deal would be astoundingly good for Calgary. Not sure on the CBJ deal; not the biggest fan of Hartnell's contract.

 

[slappipappi]

FF that's what they said about Phil. Phil eclipsed 30 goals 5 out of 6 seasons before he signed the monster contract. Phil at 6 - 6.5 M a year is a good deal but Phil at 8 M became an albatross for both him and the Leaf's.

Now I am not insinuating Johnny has any of Phil's bad traits.

There are some issues there however.
1.) His height makes him more susceptible to head injuries.
2.) How will his body stand up to the wear and tear from playing against much larger players?

These are real concerns that need to be heeded.

Johnny being the humble guy he is I think would be more than happy being the 2nd - 3rd highest paid under 25 player. The only person under 25 making more than 6M a year is Tarasenko.

Johnny is far from "humble" based on what I hear. he wants to be paid.


I doubt that Kessell's failures plays into Johnny's mind come contract negotiations.

If he decides he wants an 8 year contract, I doubt that the Flames want to insult him by refusing to negotiate more than a bridge deal.

What will Flames management do come July 1st, if Johnny says he won't sign a bridge contract, instead will wait to see if an offer sheet comes in?

Will they wait until someone actually offers him $8M over 7 years and then either match it or take the draft picks?

What will the Flames fan base do if the Flames let him walk via an offer sheet?

Whether is is smart to sign Gaudreau to a 8 year, $7.5M contract may not be particularly relevant if that is what he wants. The Flames likely have little choice, unless they are in fact prepared to let him leave.