Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | You're My Boy Bouch!

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Soundwave

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Mar 1, 2007
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Once again, there isn't a single goalie that could realistically be had that you can say with confidence is going to put up whatever arbitrary numbers you deem necessary to win a cup. It's a crapshoot.

Improve the defense and the goaltending improves as well.

Skinner was bad in the LA series too, .892 save percentage, we are fortunate that we didn't get beat in the 1st round (how devastating would that have been) because he certainly didn't help the team at all.

The Oilers probably have to get used to the idea that they have to fix BOTH the D and goaltending. It's not one or the other, it's highly probable neither of these areas are good enough.

If they want to sit in a corner and cry about that, it's like tough shit. No one in the league feels sorry for a franchise that got gift wrapped McDavid and Draisaitl and can't get their shit together as far as putting together goaltending and defence that doesn't fall apart in the playoffs every time.

Gary Bettman has been the commissioner of the NHL for 30 seasons. It has been 30 years since a Canadian team has won the Stanley Cup. Before Bettman oozed onto the scene Canadian teams won Stanley Cups all the time.

Go tell someone else about Bettman not being culpable. He has f***ed Canada for 30 years and counting. Enough with the "every GM being incompetent except for the super GM bullshit!" Because it's bullshit.

Vegas Golden Knights
6 years in the league
made the playoffs 5 of those six years
11 playoff series wins... not playoff game wins, PLAYOFF SERIES WINS!
2 Stanley Cup appearances
1 Stanley Cup

This just dumb. They have the best management team in the NHL and the best pro scouting. That's why they have so many good players on top of being in a desireable location which doesn't hurt.

If Bettman wanted one franchise to be good he'd have chosen Arizona, since they're his pet project. Canadian teams just keep hiring mediocre managers, that's why none of them have won anything.
 

GOilers88

#DustersWinCups
Dec 24, 2016
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Gary Bettman has been the commissioner of the NHL for 30 seasons. It has been 30 years since a Canadian team has won the Stanley Cup. Before Bettman oozed onto the scene Canadian teams won Stanley Cups all the time.

Go tell someone else about Bettman not being culpable. He has f***ed Canada for 30 years and counting. Enough with the "every GM being incompetent except for the super GM bullshit!" Because it's bullshit.

Vegas Golden Knights
6 years in the league
made the playoffs 5 of those six years
11 playoff series wins... not playoff game wins, PLAYOFF SERIES WINS!
2 Stanley Cup appearances
1 Stanley Cup
Totally Bettmans doing when the Oilers traded for Griffin Reinhart. And Hall for Larsson. And Eberle for Strome for nothing. And drafting JP without doing any due diligence on him at all. And for hiring Dallas Eakins. And for decades of inept drafting/scouting. And for the Jeff Petry debacle. And for numerous terrible contracts like Horcoff, Campbell, Kassian and a slew of others. And for Pronger leaving. And for Roloson getting hurt in game 1. And for the mishandling of Sheldon Souray. And for taking Yakupov over Murray even though the scouts voted 9-2 in favor of Murray. And dropping Ray Whitney on waivers after 9 games. And Kevin Lowe botching a trade for Corey Perry because he's a cheap, egotistical twat.

I could go on and on because Edmonton had a colorful history of mind boggling blunders, and that's just the Oilers! Nevermind Jim Benning in Vancouver. If it wasn't for that meddling Bettman, none of that would have happened and surely we'd have had a cup by now!
 
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Soundwave

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I bet Aiden Hill and Laurent Brossoit would have filled you with positivity last off-season.

Ironically Vegas and Colorado proved that you don't need a Hellebuyck. The examples you used are doing the opposite for the argument you're trying to make.

Vegas would've lost to us if we could've played them with Skinner in net. We basically got an idea how much easier that would be because they did have Brossoit in net which was basically Skinner level goaltending.

Colorado proved they can win with one of the deepest forward groups in the modern NHL era, and then having an embarrassment of riches on their blue line including Makar, Toews, Manson, Byram, etc.

Call me when Holland gets players comparable to that here and sure you can sit there and say "dur hur, Connor you should be bringing home a Cup, no excuses even with our goaltending" then. Until then though it's not even a remotely realistic comparison.
 

Mr Positive

Cap Crunch Incoming
Nov 20, 2013
36,057
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What if Adin Hill doesn't turn back into a pumpkin. Good chance he doesn't. Look at that freakin defense in front of him.

And I look at the Golden Knights draft picks over the next 3 years. They have 20 of 21 picks. Missing a 7th rounder from the 2025 season.

Screw you Bettman.
Vegas is very deep but overrated. Part of the torture of this past playoffs is that the road to win the cup was pretty simple. Florida took out the true contenders out east. The major contender out west was Colorado, and they had key injuries to Landeskog and Makar.

Vegas doesn't have that top elite talent. That's why Eichel was such a big win for them, and yet even he hasn't been that great for them. Him and Stone domt compare to McDavid, Draisaitl, MacKinnon, Rantanen or Makar
Pietrangelo has started to decline and Theodore seems to have hit a ceiling. Even on D it's mostly driven by depth

In our playoff series we just gave Vegas everything and didn't have goaltending to cover up our team's awful systemic play, and we still gave Vegas their hardest test of the playoffs.

Vegas is definitely good enough to win a cup if things go their way. The Oilers had to throw away the series for Vegas to have any chance to win. That's what McDavid and Draisaitl mean when they say they don't like the way that that series ended.

I really don't fear Vegas that much going into this year. Colorado has used the Landeskog space to beef up, and Makar should be 100% again.
 

duul

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Jun 21, 2010
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Vegas would've lost to us if we could've played them with Skinner in net. We basically got an idea how much easier that would be because they did have Brossoit in net.

Colorado proved they can win with one of the deepest forward groups in the modern NHL era, and then having an embarrassment of riches on their blue line including Makar, Toews, Manson, Byram, etc.

Call me when Holland gets players comparable to that here and sure you can sit there and say "dur hur, Connor you should be bringing home a Cup, no excuses even with our goaltending" then. Until then though it's not even a remotely realistic comparison.
It is a bit upsetting when you see Vegas and Colorado both with absolutely stacked bluelines, wondering why since Pronger the only good defenceman we have traded for is Ekholm. Am I missing someone? Keep in mind while I like Ekholm overall as a player and he is our best defenceman, this guy was playing second fiddle to Josi, has never made an All Star game, and seemed to fold against Vegas with Bouchard surprisingly stepping up and being the defacto go to guy in that series.

We saw one of the reasons Ekholm had never been 'the guy'. He's a real good second pairing type guy, kind of like Nurse in a way. Both guys who can play second fiddle and play it well. Neither should be 'the guy' like Pietro is who is specifically tasked with going up against McDavid types all night.

Our presumed wealth of riches up front dried up. The free agent scoring forwards we brought in did nothing and we were back to being a 2 man club at even strength. We can cite them being hampered with injury, and I'm willing to go with that because Kane did show strong last playoffs, as did Hyman.

It's depressing when we're desperately trying to patch holes on a sinking ship and as soon as we figure we might have solved the leak, another springs at the other end.

If we were to get one more piece somehow at RHD, I really think it would put us in a good spot. That should be a reasonable expectation. I wish we had moved heaven and earth for Karlsson, but I don't know. There's a lot of second tier guys out there like the Ekholm's and Pesce's of the world who are solid players, and are obvious big upgrades on our group, but even with them it's going to be a struggle.

For example I think Vegas' entire D corps is solid. We would have to add two more Ekholm level guys to match them. Colorado is obviously miles ahead on D.

As others have posted about and I've come to agree with only recently, Woodcroft really is the lynchpin here. The strategies in place defensively are either absurd, or our personnel is not good enough to play them properly. Combination of both perhaps. We've seen how Cassidy groups play D in Boston and Vegas. We've seen how each and every player buys in to the physicality and aggressive forechecking (maybe not Pastrnak), but it's a near 100% buy in of hard aggressive play with desperation on every shift to get the puck to the slot and net front.

We simply do not see that style of play here aside from a couple guys. When your leaders are playing a certain way, the rest of the team seems to follow. In Boston they had their leaders in Marchand and Bergeron crashing the net, forechecking hard, backchecking even harder on every single shift. The rest of the guys are held accountable in their hearts and minds. They must put in the same amount of effort. In Vegas you have Marchessault and Eichel, Eichel being considered now as one of the premier defensive centres in the NHL. These guys lead the way and the rest of Vegas, every single man, is playing pucks to the centre of the ice on each entry to create chaos.

McDavid and Draisaitl do not play in this manner, and I wouldn't ask them to. It's simply how they are made up to be. McDavid the speedster beating people wide and doing things we can't expect anyone else in the league to, so the bench looks on in awe. Draisaitl is the much slower, methodical, precision passing type who slows the game down in the offensive zone, stopping up and looking for plays to form or mispositioning.

So when your two leaders play the game in a way that only they can, it leads to a disconnect. You have the rest of the group following suit trying to play the game in a way that they simply aren't built for. Maybe it's hard for them to get up to play a certain aggressive and brutalizing style of reckless abandon when neither of their superstar leaders play that way. It's the catch-22 in my eyes of having a McDavid level player. With the Edmonton of old (correct me if I'm wrong), they had Messier every step of the way demanding more from everyone while Gretzky worked his quiet magic.

We're missing the type of leaders who play like the Bergeron's, Marchand's, and Marchessaults of the world. That style of play can be played by anyone up and down the lineup as we've seen with Vegas and Boston, with L.A. etc.
 

belair

Jay Woodcroft Unemployment Stance
Apr 9, 2010
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Energy means bringing fans to their feet and pumping up the bench. McLeod and Janmark had the 'energy' of Yamamoto and Hyman but Kostin brought a different energy. Kassian (younger) is a good comparable.


We didn't because Kassian declined on ice and had the dumb penalty psycho concerns. If he had the motor of Kostin he would have been a good PTO add
My point is that the motor means nothing if the production doesn't match the salary. When those earnings increase, so do the expectations. And very frequently, players in that position fail to meet them.

Kostin at $2m is gross knowing what he brings to the table.
 
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Soundwave

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My point is that the motor means nothing if the production doesn't match the salary. When those earnings increase, so do the expectations. And very frequently, players in that position fail to meet them.

Kostin at $2m is gross knowing what he brings to the table.

HFOil logic

McLeod - 11 goals in 57 games, 0 goals in the playoffs = perfectly acceptable for $2 million

Kostin - 11 goals in 57 games, 3 goals in the playoffs = gross

lol

The whole "this guy doesn't play for us, so that means he sucks now" thing is so lame and tired.
 

McHelpus

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Jan 16, 2021
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HFOil logic

McLeod - 11 goals in 57 games, 0 goals in the playoffs = perfectly acceptable for $2 million

Kostin - 11 goals in 57 games, 3 goals in the playoffs = gross

lol

The whole "this guy doesn't play for us, so that means he sucks now" thing is so lame and tired.
I wish we kept Kostin but those 2 shouldn't be compared based on points alone...
 
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TopShelfGloveSide

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Dec 10, 2018
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HFOil logic

McLeod - 11 goals in 57 games, 0 goals in the playoffs = perfectly acceptable for $2 million

Kostin - 11 goals in 57 games, 3 goals in the playoffs = gross

lol

The whole "this guy doesn't play for us, so that means he sucks now" thing is so lame and tired.
Cant afford to keep them both. McLeod is the safer bet.
 
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duul

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Jun 21, 2010
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HFOil logic

McLeod - 11 goals in 57 games, 0 goals in the playoffs = perfectly acceptable for $2 million

Kostin - 11 goals in 57 games, 3 goals in the playoffs = gross

lol

The whole "this guy doesn't play for us, so that means he sucks now" thing is so lame and tired.
If I had to guess, it is something to do with McLeod being the home grown guy who we desperately need to pan out (he won't), vs the Russian mercenary. I don't need to tell you why someone of Russian nationality would be prejudiced against in such a time, especially by the types of people we have posting here.

Nobody can look at the two players and decide McLeod is more valuable, either currently or at both of their peak potentials, unless they are a Canadian Oilers fan.
 

TheNumber4

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Nov 11, 2011
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Kostin is a huge loss. I don’t know why more Oil fans aren’t pissed that we lost the fruits of our ONE good trade of the last 10 years and one of the best bottom 6ers this team has identified ever.

A dude with size, a shot, who can skate, who can throw the body, and still has 1st round untapped potential. Someone with enough tools to be a Top 6 RW even, and look at that, we’re in need of a cheap Top 6 RW with Pool/Yams failing out.

Remember that we stole this dude from Chia in St. Louis too. It was a nice story line that we finally got something back from Chia’s incompetence.
 

joestevens29

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Apr 30, 2009
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Gary Bettman has been the commissioner of the NHL for 30 seasons. It has been 30 years since a Canadian team has won the Stanley Cup. Before Bettman oozed onto the scene Canadian teams won Stanley Cups all the time.

Go tell someone else about Bettman not being culpable. He has f***ed Canada for 30 years and counting. Enough with the "every GM being incompetent except for the super GM bullshit!" Because it's bullshit.

Vegas Golden Knights
6 years in the league
made the playoffs 5 of those six years
11 playoff series wins... not playoff game wins, PLAYOFF SERIES WINS!
2 Stanley Cup appearances
1 Stanley Cup
Canadian teams being ran like morons might be a larger issue
 
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Tobias Kahun

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Oct 3, 2017
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If I had to guess, it is something to do with McLeod being the home grown guy who we desperately need to pan out (he won't), vs the Russian mercenary. I don't need to tell you why someone of Russian nationality would be prejudiced against in such a time, especially by the types of people we have posting here.

Nobody can look at the two players and decide McLeod is more valuable, either currently or at both of their peak potentials, unless they are a Canadian Oilers fan.
Ryan McLeod and Klim Kostin scored at the exact same goals per game rate last year in the regular season btw.

Kostin is a huge loss. I don’t know why more Oil fans aren’t pissed that we lost the fruits of our ONE good trade of the last 10 years and one of the best bottom 6ers this team has identified ever.

A dude with size, a shot, who can skate, who can throw the body, and still has 1st round untapped potential. Someone with enough tools to be a Top 6 RW even, and look at that, we’re in need of a cheap Top 6 RW with Pool/Yams failing out.

Remember that we stole this dude from Chia in St. Louis too. It was a nice story line that we finally got something back from Chia’s incompetence.
Kostin has untapped potential, but McLeod doesnt?
 

TheNumber4

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Ryan McLeod and Klim Kostin scored at the exact same goals per game rate last year in the regular season btw.


Kostin has untapped potential, but McLeod doesnt?

I wasn’t comparing the players. I like both. But as a Top 6er, I think Kostin showed more potential last year than Mcleod has.
 

duul

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Comtois put up 19 points last year, is a much bigger and more physical player than McLeod which would lead me to ASSUME that his style of play would lend itself to a playoff series a bit better. Anaheim knew he was due for an arbitration of ~2m and opted not to qualify.

We must assume both of these players still have more to give. Is there a reason why McLeod would be the heavily sought after staple of our third line like many posters suggest, while Comtois is PTO waiver fodder?

Let's keep in mind the best team in the league decided to bring this guy to camp. There seems to be a disconnect going on here, where somehow Kostin is not worth McLeod money, and neither is a similar style player in Comtois, yet these guys are being specifically targeted by the likes of Yzerman and Vegas brass.

McLeod has never had a positive corsi relative to his teammates. Comtois does. Comtois is regularly well above his teammates in terms of corsi +/- , while McLeod has NEVER been + in relation to his teammates.

Guys like Comtois are a no brainer to bring into camp, as again, the best team in the league jumped on. Meanwhile we are bringing in absolute do-nothings in Sutter, Gagner, Caggiula.
 
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Soundwave

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Canadian teams being ran like morons might be a larger issue

The last Canadian team that was really well built from top to bottom was probably the 2011 Canucks and they can only blame themselves for blowing that Finals series.
 

Tobias Kahun

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Comtois put up 19 points last year, is a much bigger and more physical player than McLeod which would lead me to ASSUME that his style of play would lend itself to a playoff series a bit better. Anaheim knew he was due for an arbitration of ~2m and opted not to qualify.

We must assume both of these players still have more to give. Is there a reason why McLeod would be the heavily sought after staple of our third line like many posters suggest, while Comtois is PTO waiver fodder?

Let's keep in mind the best team in the league decided to bring this guy to camp. There seems to be a disconnect going on here, where somehow Kostin is not worth McLeod money, and neither is a similar style player in Comtois, yet these guys are being specifically targeted by the likes of Yzerman and Vegas brass.

McLeod has never had a positive corsi relative to his teammates. Comtois does. Comtois is regularly well above his teammates in terms of corsi +/- , while McLeod has NEVER been + in relation to his teammates.

Guys like Comtois are a no brainer to bring into camp, as again, the best team in the league jumped on. Meanwhile we are bringing in absolute do-nothings in Sutter, Gagner, Caggiula.
I'm sure Comtois being a good relative player in Anaheim has nothing to do with that team having like 2 good NHL quality forwards.
 

duul

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Ryan McLeod and Klim Kostin scored at the exact same goals per game rate last year in the regular season btw.


Kostin has untapped potential, but McLeod doesnt?
McLeod played 220 more minutes. He scored significantly less goals while he was on the ice than Klim Kostin did, with better linemates.

That's the regular season where weak, perimeter players often get a pass as well. As we've seen it's an entirely different ballgame come playoff time. Would you like to compare their goals per game there instead?
 

Tobias Kahun

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McLeod played 220 more minutes. He scored significantly less goals while he was on the ice than Klim Kostin did, with better linemates.

That's the regular season where weak, perimeter players often get a pass as well. As we've seen it's an entirely different ballgame come playoff time. Would you like to compare their goals per game there instead?
Yeah, im sure that Kostins 12.15% on ice shooting with McDrai off the ice is something that will happen again.

McLeod and Kostin both have 3 playoff goals in their careers.
 
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duul

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Yeah, im sure that Kostins 12.15% on ice shooting with McDrai off the ice is something that will happen again.

McLeod and Kostin both have 3 playoff goals in their careers.
Your logic is consistently so wrong it's hilarious. By that metric they're both better than Bedard. You're the most disingenuous poster here.

Again, nobody outside of this board would think McLeod is a better player than Kostin. We got handcuffed by qualifying McLeod when we shouldn't have, that's all.
 

Tobias Kahun

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Your logic is consistently so wrong it's hilarious. By that metric they're both better than Bedard. You're the most disingenuous poster here.

Again, nobody outside of this board would think McLeod is a better player than Kostin. We got handcuffed by qualifying McLeod when we shouldn't have, that's all.
That's gold, you should be looking in the mirror before you call anyone disingenuous.

The amount of times you move the goalposts, im surprised your back doesnt hurt.

So you think scoring at a 65% gf rate on a 46% xGF is something Kostin can repeat?

He couldnt even have a positive xGF on a team like the Oilers.
 
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TopShelfGloveSide

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I wasn’t comparing the players. I like both. But as a Top 6er, I think Kostin showed more potential last year than Mcleod has.
I agree that Kostin has a higher ceiling but I also think Kostin has a higher bust chance.
He was great here but he also cleared waivers half a season ago. There’s definitely risk there.
 

Soundwave

Registered User
Mar 1, 2007
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Yeah, im sure that Kostins 12.15% on ice shooting with McDrai off the ice is something that will happen again.

McLeod and Kostin both have 3 playoff goals in their careers.

Kostin has had a high shooting percentage pretty much his entire career even before coming to Edmonton.

Dude just has a pretty good shot.
 
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