Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | Shopping List For Forwards

[Jimmi McJenkins]

Guentzel is not in the same tier as ROR or Giroux. Flip Guentzel to Crosby and sure!

Ideally Oilers should go after Giroux (OTT)or ROR (NSH) using these assets.

Scratch that, go get Zub. He's not in his late 30s and very good.

 

[Gordy Elbows]

Sure but what is the ++ really? Personally I value a 3rd round pick in our current situation at next best to nothing. I guess the best prospect comparable we have would be Broberg? Opinions on how good he is and what we should do with him vary wildly.

Just to reiterate I wasn't making an argument we should pay the price for Guentzel, but if(big if) management has decided he's their guy then IMO they should just do what they have to do.

Ordinarily I take the position that “never a 1st rounder for a rental” trade. However, this season I believe we’re going all in (with good reason) and getting a top-6 winger is a big part of that. As you mentioned, 4 years later doesn’t matter right now.
In fact, a top prospect holds more value than a pick.
Let’s make the trades we need…we owe the team that much.

 

[K1984]

I’ve been apprehensive about it because of the possibility of Drai walking as a UFA and not having any quality prospects to plug into the lineup or use as trade chips to fill that hole. But on the other hand maybe getting Drai a quality rental winger could lead to a deep run and help persuade him to stay.

Thing is we don't have any quality prospects to plug in to that spot even in the current state. The third rounder is irrelevant, and where we will be drafting there is probably about a 10-15% chance of the player we pick being much better than replacement level.

Broberg and Holloway are both at the point where they might become something, and I would be a little hesitant moving them for the sole reason that they both still have some upside and both can play in the NHL at league minimum. I have zero hesitation to move any other prospect that isn't those two, however.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

I mean it really depends on who the rental is replacing.

Right now acquiring Guentzel would push Perry back down into the bottom 6. Perry has 1 assist in 4 games. I don't think it’s unrealistic that Perry keeps up that pace in a bottom 6 role.

Perry has been in the top 6 for like 20 minutes. You don’t truly believe he would have the same production playing bottom 6 than he would playing with Kane / Drai the rest of the season do you?

Giroux plays like 18 minutes a night. Those minutes gotta come from somewhere. Less ice time / less opportunity equals less production. Im not saying it wasn’t a positive for Florida to add his 8 points in 10 games but it’s not an “extra 8 goals.”

 

[Fourier]

Part of value for the first is the retention by the Caps. They also take back Janmark, a player they probably have no interest in, to make it work for the Oilers financially. Dowd is signed for another season. I'm not saying it's great value, but it's what we should expect. The Oilers 1st will probably be around 20th (or 32nd...we hope) this season.

Retention at the TDL by the selling team is almost a given these days and should for the level of players involved in the proposal at hand not cost hardly anything, if anything at all, if the player is a UFA.

 

[McAsuno]

 

[Zguy370]

Scratch that, go get Zub. He's not in his late 30s and very good.

Getting Zub would be a like a miracle, don't think there is any way Ottawa entertains the thought of moving him, he is well like by the fans and teammates from the couple of games I saw in Ottawa this season. One of the games was against the Oilers, we won and Jesse scored a beauty lol

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

Getting Zub would be a like a miracle, don't think there is any way Ottawa entertains the thought of moving him, he is well like by the fans and teammates from the couple of games I saw in Ottawa this season. One of the games was against the Oilers, we won and Jesse scored a beauty lol

I'm sure they don't want to, but I think they also didn't want to be last. It's worth pursuing hard, imo.

 

[Fourier]

There certainly seems to be a lot of things Holland finds difficult. I have some sympathy for the challenges he faces but in the end if you cash your very large pay cheque you need to do the hard stuff.

 

[McAsuno]

There certainly seems to be a lot of things Holland finds difficult. I have some sympathy for the challenges he faces but in the end if you cash your very large pay cheque you need to do the hard stuff.

I won't comment anything negative until after the TDL. Still got couple weeks left anyways.

 

[Zguy370]

There certainly seems to be a lot of things Holland finds difficult. I have some sympathy for the challenges he faces but in the end if you cash your very large pay cheque you need to do the hard stuff.

Pretty well, hopefully he watched the Vegas and LA games! He definitely should be adding another piece or two.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

I won't comment anything negative until after the TDL. Still got couple weeks left anyways.

Same I was fire bombing him last season and then he got Ekholm.

 

[Fourier]

I won't comment anything negative until after the TDL. Still got couple weeks left anyways.

Of course. What the win streak did do is buy him time to make the right decisions. I just find it intersting how often the word "hard" seems to surface with respect to Holland. The reality is that a lot of this is hard. But like anyone earning millions per year that is to be expected. If his job was easy why pay him anything close to his salary.

 

[McDoused]

Perry has been in the top 6 for like 20 minutes. You don’t truly believe he would have the same production playing bottom 6 than he would playing with Kane / Drai the rest of the season do you?

Giroux plays like 18 minutes a night. Those minutes gotta come from somewhere. Less ice time / less opportunity equals less production. Im not saying it wasn’t a positive for Florida to add his 8 points in 10 games but it’s not an “extra 8 goals.”

When you add a rental like giroux or guentzel, you get that production at the expense of whoever he is replacing. Your argument holds water if for example they replace a guy who was producing with that icetime. I'm not as familiar with Florida and who Giroiux replaced so its very possible that whoever he replaced was productive. So yes you would be right.

For the Oilers, these guys would be massive upgrades to whoever they replace here. My point is that on the Oilers we have guys that are literally not producing at all, despite been given that even strength TOI. It's not like we are replacing Yamamoto who is on pace for 15 goals or something and adding a 30 goal scorer resulting in net 15 goals. Whatever the rental brings for production is basically a net positive.

Perry has been getting 13 EV minutes a night with 1 point. Brown gets 11 EV minutes a night and Janmark 10 with a goals between the two of them.

I just looked up Giroux and he had 14 minutes a night in the playoffs for Florida. In that time he had 8 EVP. If we added a guy with the same sort of production that's basically an extra goal a game.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

That bundle for 8 points in the playoffs. A serious reminder how much trading the farm for a rental can backfire.

Haha and some on here didn't view Tippett as a quality A prospect. Still funny thinking about those discussions.

The Oilers do not have the prospect pipeline or draft collateral depth to blow out their A level assets on a 1 and done. Arguably they could use upgrades across all position areas. I anticipate they use A assets like Ekholm type deal for a quality asset with term in one upgrade area whether top 4 D; a hard 3C/4C guy; or last resort a top 6 wing. Easiest to cherry pick cheap forward help waiting for deadline day. Blow a secondary asset to add to this team's greatest area of strength.

The Florida fiasco was quite likely the tipping point whereafter the market started to shift away from blowing big overpays on UFA one and done.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Scratch that, go get Zub. He's not in his late 30s and very good.

The Ottawa defense issue is at LD which is sucking up too much dollars and term. They're on record apparently chasing another veteran RD in Tanev to balance their d-core and add additional veteran experience (as Staios is quoted on record as valuing). Staios is one guy who knows the value of a strong d-corp and veteran NHL leadership. He's not dealing Zub for more question marks in prospects or draft picks.

 

[Fourier]

In the end that Giroux trade was a loss for Florida. I am not adverse to the Oilers trading a first for a pure rental, but if it involves a guy like Holloway I think the risk increases exponentially. The player you get with a late first won't help this team much for 4 years or more most likely and even then probably not much. Holloway is ready to contribute now and the Oilers need cheap contracts that can play in multiple roles. For me in practical terms, Holloway is worth far more than a late first in terms of winning over the next few years.

 

[TheNumber4]

That’s actually not too much…

Do we have a Tippet to give? Tippet’s a blue chip prospect now turned franchise player for Flyers.

 

[TheNumber4]

I'm not making a case for any specific player with this post, but I don't really get the apprehension to trading our 1st for a rental. What are we going to need that pick for? Someone to play 12 minutes a game 4 years from now?

There are times to be hoarding picks and times to be trading them. We're in the latter of these two times.

Yeh we shouldn’t be worried about trading a late 1st in what’s been reported as a weak draft class in the back half of the 1st round. But we still only have so many 1sts to throw around so really have to nail down which player or players combo makes the most sense.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

The Ottawa defense issue is at LD which is sucking up too much dollars and term. They're on record apparently chasing another veteran RD in Tanev to balance their d-core and add additional veteran experience (as Staios is quoted on record as valuing). Staios is one guy who knows the value of a strong d-corp and veteran NHL leadership. He's not dealing Zub for more question marks in prospects or draft picks.

Ottawa was on record as suggesting they were going to compete for the playoffs this year.

So instead of Ceci you move Kulak then, and move Ceci in a separate deal to improve Kulak's spot.

Like I get all of this, and I Don't Care.

Zub is a very good, but not a young core player, and I am willing to pay alot for him.

 

[Jet Walters]

I’m warming up to the Mantha idea. Would need double retention to get his cap hit down under 1.5. 15 even strength goals is top 40 in the league and he’s 6’5” 230 lbs+. Doing that with Lars Eller as your primary center is quite impressive. He’d definitely be cheaper than Tarasenko and might be a similar level sniper.

 

[Slats432]

There is zero chance I trade a 1st, 3rd and Holloway for Guentzel. 1st, 3rd and anyone in Bako? Sure.

 

[frag2]

There certainly seems to be a lot of things Holland finds difficult. I have some sympathy for the challenges he faces but in the end if you cash your very large pay cheque you need to do the hard stuff.

I mean based on how he keeps bringing up Detroit in pressers, it would appear he already has difficulty just remember which team he is running lol

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Ottawa was on record as suggesting they were going to compete for the playoffs this year.

So instead of Ceci you move Kulak then, and move Ceci in a separate deal to improve Kulak's spot.

Like I get all of this, and I Don't Care.

Zub is a very good, but not a young core player, and I am willing to pay alot for him.

Highly doubt Staios is compromising their defense corp right side which he wants to build up with an additional veteran. Even allegedly taking a run at a UFA Tanev to do it. Throwing away a prime age RD Zub to weaken it makes zero sense.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

Highly doubt Staios is compromising their defense corp right side which he wants to build up with an additional veteran. Even allegedly taking a run at a UFA Tanev to do it. Throwing away a prime age RD Zub to weaken it makes zero sense.

What? The Defense corps that's led them to last place? Yeah, he should be listening.



Go get Zub