Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread: "Ken Holland's Day Off"

[Nostradumbass]

I was not, the player has improved greatly from last regular season when I was critical.

You sure have a memory on you.

I tend to take note when people say some pretty asinine things and are proven wrong shortly after.

 

[Broberg Speed]

Hyman? He was always good, it was a you thing.

I liked him in Toronto. Back to his rookie year when he was buzzing around the net even though he wasn't scoring. He was playing effectively.

I tend to take note when people say some pretty asinine things and are proven wrong shortly after.

good for you... cookie time

 

[MoontoScott]

Holland's report card overall would be

Forwards: B, I mean this is the easiest area to build on because you have McDavid/Draisaitl/RNH to start with, Hyman was a good add. Kane was a fluke, but fine. Yamamoto and Puljujarvi and the inability to get a better 3C are large mistakes.

Defence: D-, can't hold a lead, mind numbingly stupid mistakes every game, gets eaten by Colorado and other top teams like the Rangers. Cody Ceci on your top pair. No physicality, Woodcroft had to bring in Desharnais (not one of Holland's finds) to finally have some what of a net clearing presence. Embarrassing when your GM can't get anyone better than after 4 years on the job.

Goaltending: D-, Campbell has been a terrible signing, the year prior letting it ride again on Koskinen/Smith almost sank the team. We would be in a load of trouble if Skinner had not stepped up.

Cap management: D, RNH deal was nice, but immediately offset by terrible deals for Nurse and Campbell. Yamamoto and Puljujarvi eating up 6 million in cap, team isn't able to ice a full roster on many nights because the GM refuses to waive Puljujarvi.

Overall grade: C-

It's not really a great grade, unfortunately for Holland defence and goaltending are kinda part of the game. You can't just win playing pond hockey.

I think someone in the media put it best last year when they said "Holland is one of the better GMs the Oilers have ever had but that doesn't make him a really good one."

I would be a bit more charitable towards his overall score --let's say a "C+" because he has been saddled with an old boys club culture that he didn't install. There are a number of albatross sightings around the rink.

His biggest downfalls are (a) cap management (b) excessive loyalty towards certain players.

He is "friends" with many of the players but that's not always a good thing.

An old boss of mine once said "you should be on friendly terms with the people who work for you but they are not your buddies." I think this is one of the best pieces of advice that you can offer someone in management circles.

That said, look at the mistakes the Flames and Canucks have made. I would give both of those guys a lower grade.

 

[TB12]

That's the whole point. Kane busted his ass to get back on the ice after having his career ended. Asking him to sit out 6 weeks for cap space because the GM can't figure his way out of a paper bag would by itself be a complete slap in the face. There is no way he would be onside unless his injury is way worse than it seems. Asking McDavid to be the bag man would only compound this further.

No point in arguing with him when he goes on these weird tangents. You’re 100% right but he won’t listen to logic. It’s scummy, greasy and absolutely no f***ing way Kane (or Connor) would be on board with it.

 

[foshizzle]

I think he has taken plenty of risks.

Barrie was a gamble
Kane was a big gamble with his history
Smith (1st time) was a gamble
AA was a big gamble that lost.
Green was another gamble that lost.

Like any other GM in the league he won some and he lost some. But has he really dithered or been scared yo take a risk?

He’s completely changed this team from perennial lottery territory to challenging for the division every year. The Ken Holland Oilers have never missed the playoffs. The Ken Holland Oilers have never finished worse than 2nd in the Pacific.

Let’s take a closer look here. Barrie wasn’t a gamble, he signed a 1 year show me deal during the lockout for cheap. Kane also signed a 1 year deal for cheap last year. Smith wasn’t a gamble, it was because Holland screwed himself.

Under Holland, the team got worse every year when Draisaitl or McDavid weren’t in the ice. The GF% was the worst in the league. Worse than any Chia teams. This is the first year where they are above 50%. The Oilers challenging for too spot every year is due to McDavid and Draisaitl putting up numbers not seen in 30 years. They literally putting the team on their back despite Holland. Think about it- 2 players scoring close to 250 points and close to 100 goals. That’s insanity. Now he has an opportunity to add to this group with players having a career year and he is too scared. This is why people are pissed.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Pagnotta is Eklund in a suit.

Seems to be more on the ball than anyone else tbh.

 

[Wreckus]

Pagnotta is Eklund in a suit.

Pagnotta is a LA homer IMO.

 

[Klimando Kostani]

So why aren't you a GM? You seem to think you know better then Holland. I wouldn't include them if I was the GM either unless it was for a prime 2 way top pairing D signed long term. Chychrun isn't that. He is a number 3 on a good team. He about equal to Nurse and fans will quickly jump on him when he makes defensive zone mistakes.

Damn if you think Chychren is a #3 name 66 better dmen than him.

Also, does it matter? What's Broberg then? An AHL tweener? We can't trade thst and magic beans for a defenseman who can play over 20 minutes a night against tough competition?

Any GM who says they are in win now mode but does not make that trade is horrible. Truth is Holland probably makes thst trade but Arizona doesn't want anyone less than Bouchard would be my guess. Which is why the 2 firsts are probably all we can offer.

But hey, why make a winning team when we can squeek into the playoffs and maybe a series of we can score 7 goals a game

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Classic of the oilers media starting to make the annual excuses for Ken Holland!

What a fart sniffer.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

I was not, the player has improved greatly from last regular season when I was critical.

You sure have a memory on you.

And McLeod sucks as a center, at least on a team expected to compete in the playoffs.

Still can’t admit to being wrong hey?

 

[Broberg Speed]

Still can’t admit to being wrong hey?

I stick by my opinion. It was an accurate account of events as I witnessed them.

What would you do without me?

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

I stick by my opinion. It was an accurate account of events as I witnessed them.

What would you do without me?

Good point. Always need a class clown.

 

[Fourier]

What a fart sniffer.

Yah, No way that the Oilers could have made room for a guy with a $2.25M contract!!! That would have taken a brain genius to do the cypher'n to make it work.

 

[Broberg Speed]

Good point. Always need a class clown.

good one

 

[Macblender]

Yah, No way that the Oiler could have made room for a guy with a $2.25M contract!!! That would have taken a brain genius to do the cypher'n to make it work.


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I think the bigger issue is moving a Schaefer level prospect for a guy asking for $4M+ for his next contract per the STL fans in the value thread last week.

We trade something that valuable and he walks that is dumb. I like the player but this team isn’t just barbashev away we need to spend those assets solidifying our D.

And yes standing pat is unacceptable but we need to at least be smart

 

[larek]

That's what he said.

Although if you're not a native English speaker I could see how that would be confusing!

U better read it again dorky

 

[Macblender]

U better read it again dorky

Not sure what you are making a deal of haha

I said ceci is playing above his head meaning he is playing way too high in the line up on the first pair. He is a #4 playing as our #2 and is thus a pairing too high.

 

[Seachd]

U better read it again dorky

I mean, he said “Ceci isn’t playing well” and you replied with “Ceci isn’t playing well”.

So either you’re missing something or I am.

 

[YakDavid]

I think the bigger issue is moving a Schaefer level prospect for a guy asking for $4M+ for his next contract per the STL fans in the value thread last week.

We trade something that valuable and he walks that is dumb. I like the player but this team isn’t just barbashev away we need to spend those assets solidifying our D.

And yes standing pat is unacceptable but we need to at least be smart

It was a high cost for sure. I really think people need to look at the cap of trade before whining about not making trade. Vegas had 9.5 of room and paid more then I would have for this.

The cap isn’t an excuse to do nothing but it needs to be heavily considered in every move.

 

[Fourier]

I think the bigger issue is moving a Schaefer level prospect for a guy asking for $4M+ for his next contract per the STL fans in the value thread last week.

We trade something that valuable and he walks that is dumb. I like the player but this team isn’t just barbashev away we need to spend those assets solidifying our D.

And yes standing pat is unacceptable but we need to at least be smart

That's completely fair, but it is not what Matheson said. He suggested the issue was money.

 

[XXIV97]

Isn't the only real big name left Chychrun/Karlsson? Timo is going to NJ/VGK and P.Kane is going to the NYR.

Karlsson is unlikely go get traded in season, while the Oilers have never been really interested in the Chyrchun.

 

[Fourier]

It was a high cost for sure. I really think people need to look at the cap of trade before whining about not making trade. Vegas had 9.5 of room and paid more then I would have for this.

The cap isn’t an excuse to do nothing but it needs to be heavily considered in every move.

As @Macblender pointed out the issue with that deal may have been more about the prospect than the cap. Barbashev has a $2.25M cap hit. If St. Louis liked the prospect the Oilers could have sent JP along for the ride or negotiated retention. At this point Barbashev was owed about $700K in real money. The cost of retention would not have been all that much. So its not a cap issue but rather about the value relative to the assets needed to make the deal.

 

[Oilers in NS]

Isn't the only real big name left Chychrun/Karlsson? Timo is going to NJ/VGK and P.Kane is going to the NYR.

Karlsson is unlikely go get traded in season, while the Oilers have never been really interested in the Chyrchun.

Sad but true

 

[belair]

We are on pace for more goals against than the season Chiarelli was fired. They finished with 79 points that season this season though, they are on pace for 98 points. So a definite improvement. Although the biggest difference is scoring from the big guns. Cause defensively, we are just as bad.

Isn't it logical to come to the conclusion that Edmonton's offense comes at the expense of some pretty suspect team defense?

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Isn't it logical to come to the conclusion that Edmonton's offense comes at the expense of some pretty suspect team defense?

But isn't it logical to come to the conclusion that Edmonton's offense has to come because of the pretty suspect defense?