Jussi
Registered User
*looks at score* NZL-ITA 96-10. Was it the 70th point that broke their back?
Rugby World Cup 2023
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96-17 final. I mean, Italy had their chance to show something, anything against the All Blacks, and then just cooked up a dud.
Namibia with a team of mainly semiprofessionals put up a better showing. I don't know what it is. Italy seem to have an aversion to playing NZ. It's a mental block. I was there at the McAlpine way back in 1999 and watched the Azzurri being demolished.
Last night NZ were good. They upped it a gear but that's no excuse for the way Italy capitulated. It was also extremely surprising given the way they played in the 6N. Few players can receive credit from last night aside from Ioane, Capuozzo and Brex.
The pack normally solid was abject. They competed against France and France more than tamed NZ yet last night they were shoved at the scrum constantly conceding penalties, maul defence was abject and the lineout was something you see in Tier 3 rugby. Lofted balls throw in and no one with any idea of where to go and lift.
One try was a bit fortunate for NZ with the bounce but you create your luck. Six were absolute gifts. I don't think the ABs expected these either.
Conceding a try from a kickoff into the opposition 22 and missing tackle after tackle. Twice off a scrum allowing an AB to glide in unopposed. And further appalling fringe defence to leave a gaping hole to allow a 2 on 1. Then Page-Relo with his comical charge down. And Odogwu stepping in off the flank at a line out to allow another easy 2 on 1.
Shockingly bad. Someone like Telea. Like the French did. Either one goes high and another low or just employ the chop tackle. When you fall off first up tackles or allow the space to allow momentum to build you are going to suffer. 31 missed tackles.
And in offence. No idea what Crowley was thinking. NZ were not committing to the ruck and spreading wide yet the Italians kept trying to play expansively running into trouble. When sides employ a high rushing line at speed you either play deep to a 10 or 15 in the line to chip or hit one long over the defence. Or as a wing outside centre you grubber the ball through and chase hard. In both cases you turn the opposition and then force them to kick into touch with territorial gain. Not only was the Italian side deficient in technique but also IQ throughout.
It's a young side compared to the ABs in age and caps. I hope it's a salutary lesson and that in another 4 years they will be much improved plus their terrific u20s who don't seem mentally fragile like many of their seniors will be integrated into the side. That was another thing. 3 tries in 5 minutes and they were shell shocked but no one said or grabbed each other giving smacks on the had saying this is simply not good enough. Maybe we've lost the game now , but let's show some pride get something on the board and minimize the damage. Awful. A result like this won't do the sport any good in Italy.
hockey20000
Registered User
- Dec 23, 2018
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hopfully they show up vs sa and push them abit.. would love to see scotland in a qf but sa is tough.
Romanian rugby is in a mess. The federation they have don't know how to develop the sport. The head honchos are more interested in luxury trips to France. The coach is inexperienced and only has domestic experience. He also made some bizarre choices like leaving out 2 players with Top14 experience. Why ?
Players have said the coaching is a mess too. Injuries have not helped but neither has switching lineups constantly especially at half back. There is no recognized flyhalf in the side either. What is very worrying that is Romania u18 finished bottom of the 8 team European championship and were beaten by Spain 102-0. Spain are really moving forward and but for a technicality would have been at this WC not Romania.
It's extremely sad to see a once proud rugby nation in the state it is. Remember back in the 1980s they drew with NZ beat all of the Home Unions barring England. They need to get someone in who will increase junior numbers, better junior coaching and make the league stable with 10 top level clubs that the rest feed into. And try and get a side into the Challenge Cup as well. It's going to be a long term project.
In the game itself they fought well but having 3 yellow cards was costly. Mind you the referee was quick to penalize Rosu but numerous Scottish infringements on their own line went unpunished. Scotland are only where they are because of imports notably from South Africa. Their own juniors are pretty bad. They lost to Uruguay in the u20 World Trophy but as usual WR bend the rules for the old boys and are thinking of an expanded u20 World Trophy which runs below the u20 World Cup for the top 12 sides current holders being France.
Romania need to follow Portugal's lead in junior development. The scoreline flatters Australia considerably as for most of the game the Wolves were the best side. The have a fantastic back three in Marta, Storti and Guedes. Lagisquet has instilled that old style French flair into them. They stuffed up a couple of tries notably Martins failing to pass the ball inside to Guedes just before half time. While wonderful to watch their expansive rugby at times they were a little naive. A minute to go for Bettencourts yellow to expire Marques chips over. It's collected and run back for an Australian try. The sole difference was strength too in contact. Given that most of the Portuguese side are semiprofessionals that's just down to gym work.
The Portuguese President was there watching. I'm sure rugby will get a funding boost, more sponsorship. And more importantly many young kids will be interested now and take the sport up. Longer term Portugal need to get a professional league if possible, a side like the Lusitanos not just in the Challenge Cup of Europe but into the United Rugby Championship.
It would be great if the URC has a second tier with sides like Black Lion from Georgia, a rep.side from Spain and maybe Holland plus an additional 2 SA teams and others.
Tonga looked better last night too. The scoreline flattered SA as well. Three cheap tries one again from being naive trying to run out from the 22, coughing the ball up and allowing a simple score, and a bit of fortune for SA with the ball coming off the shoulder for Moodie to score. Not to mention the referee not making the mark but still allowing Reinach to score with the Tongan's backs turned.
Also highlights their need for a kicker. They missed all 3 conversions. Kefu said the side needs time together. Problem is the French season runs deep so in the summer when there are tournaments like the Pacific Test Championship these players are unavailable. Also the eligibility rule change. Players like Fekitoa are available now. But they are available not at their peak but in their 30s so it will be a constant race for teams like Tonga to try and scoop up players this way. It would be better if players like the young scrum half Fakatava in the AB squad declared for Tonga now.
Indeed 3 of the AB side were Tongan born and represented Tonga to the age of 16. They get scholarships to NZ and end up playing for NZ. NZ say well most of the Tongan team learnt rugby in NZ being born to first generation parents. Sure that is true. But I still think it's a bit rich for them to keep pinching such players. And they also make sure that players from the islands and abroad in order to play Super Rugby don't declare for their nation. That needs to stop. The same with SA.
I mean NZ have capped German Anton Segner at u20 along with Dutchman Fabian Holland. Both should be looking to play for the countries in which they developed Segner at SC Frankfurt, Fabian at Castricumse. Both are chasing an AB jersey but I think that is sad. Players like these need to spearhead their own nations development and Holland are forming a nucleus of a very good side for the future.
spintheblackcircle
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- Mar 1, 2002
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Well damn. I was hoping Japan would win. Three of the four quarterfinals are set now and the fourth one might as well be because Portugal ain't beating Fiji.
TheMoreYouKnow
Registered User
Ireland vs All Blacks will arguably the most pivotal sporting event in the history of Ireland as a country. Pretty crazy.
Argentina normally would swat Japan aside. They still look deficient in some areas and are not performing to the level they can. I don't like seeing Santiago Carreras at flyhalf especially when he is off form. Sanchez must start against Wales but Cheika is very stubborn. Good sequences ie score try then Rubiolo knocks on at the restart. These need to be eradicated and better competition at the ruck. Matera is out for sure so I'd expect Gonsalez to go into his natural flanker role and Isa a natural 8 to go into that position. Bruni onto the bench.
Japan are still heavily reliant on naturalizations. Their own domestic programme is moving forward but they need to do better in that regard. The league is well funded by corporations. The odd thing is the four Japanese playing in NZ in the NPC and chasing an AB jersey. They should be looking to play for their own nation given that the chances of gaining an AB jersey are small.
Tonga as expected breezed through Romania though it's a more creditable performance from the Oaks. They have players like the fullback Simonescu and Boboc who can play at a higher level than the Romanian domestic league and others like baby faced Conache (distinguished rugby family) who has talent. But as mentioned before the federation needs total reform and a dedication to grass roots rugby, growing numbers, stabilizing clubs and getting the best kids into France. There are a lot of Romanian emigres in England and France perhaps some may end up in rugby. Theo Dan playing for England is an example. Adrien Mitu son of Petre is playing espoirs rugby in France and is eligible.
Tonga will hope like the kid making his debut and scoring Tamoufolau that Moana Pasifika in SR can provide them with a regular stream of players. But you also have to see the pride of these players. Some who are retiring from the international scene lie Surigiu and Gorin in tears. People decry these teams but it means so much to these players.
Fiji will need to buck up their ideas. The lineout is still not functioning, neither is maul defence and with their coaches visibly upset they reverted to their old ways of playing as individuals. Highly talented of course but it's a team sport and that doesn't win games at this level. They played a very structured game to beat England, Australia and would have beaten Wales but for the referee but in their last 2 games whether it's being too casual or taking the opposition for granted their level has dropped.
They'll need to revert to their A game to beat England. And hope Mayanavanua is fit too. But no small credit to Os Lobos and Lagisquet who will have made many fans of the neutrals and put Portuguese rugby firmly on the map. The celebrations at the end was rugby in it's pure form. Commiserating with the other team and then celebrating directly with your fans. Something that rarely happens in sports today.
The sevens influence and the old French style were very much in evidence. They've shown what T2 sides with some real preparation including a warm up game against Ireland can do. They have been a joy to watch. The benefits will be another boost to junior playing numbers which are increasing all the time anyway. More awareness in the general public in Portugal and sponsorship and some players like Portela getting pro contracts abroad.
To admit them to the 6N is premature as the depth in squad is not there. Lusitanos need ideally to be in the URC or a second tier URC and have sufficient depth to be competitive over a season. The entire front row are on the verge of retirement and Marques at 37 will need replacing. However their u20s are pretty decent. Also the question of their coaching direction with Lagisquet ending his tenure.
Georgia are the side that need admittance to the 6N and u20 6N. Despite not having performed as they should that comes down to poor player selections, injuries and coaches who are not of the top drawer. The scorelines against Australia bely the chances they wasted and against Wales the scoreline would have been far tighter but for a gift of a try and 2 tries that were fortunate to be awarded including one with a suspiciously forward pass.
Their u20s have some exceptional players one or two already making their mark in the Top14 and they have the depth to play a sustained tournament like the 6N. Black Lion should be in the URC as of right not having to travel to South Africa to play Currie Cup. Unfortunately the stick in the muds still want to keep the door closed. World in Union. Lol.
Samoa also desperately unfortunate. They showed what they can do and again with Moana Pasifika as a template I hope they can carry that forward. England looked mediocre and incredibly uninspired and made for most of the game to look incredibly ordinary.
The winner still will come from Ireland, France, SA and NZ. Ireland didn't let Scotland have a sniff until they relaxed. Clinical performance. Bench strength though could be a deciding factor in what are expected to be these titanic clashes along with discipline.
For most of the Tier 2s the things WR could help them with are more Tests v T1s. Specialist coaching on lineouts, maul defence and for several of these sides to find decent props to anchor their scrums. In some cases it is sheer size that is an issue. Other things. Place kicking coaches and also general IQ. Rugby is a game of territory. Too often T2s don't play this well and end up under incessant pressure. Professionalism for all would solve a lot of the issues in contact and rucks because players would have higher core strengths. Sadly WR is still very much an Anglocolonial relic and doesn't have the people to make these decisions or indeed upset the applecart by for example asking for Lions tours to be scrapped. They really need to rapidly increase the competitive depth and strength of the sides ranked 14-30 in the world currently.
Japan are still heavily reliant on naturalizations. Their own domestic programme is moving forward but they need to do better in that regard. The league is well funded by corporations. The odd thing is the four Japanese playing in NZ in the NPC and chasing an AB jersey. They should be looking to play for their own nation given that the chances of gaining an AB jersey are small.
Tonga as expected breezed through Romania though it's a more creditable performance from the Oaks. They have players like the fullback Simonescu and Boboc who can play at a higher level than the Romanian domestic league and others like baby faced Conache (distinguished rugby family) who has talent. But as mentioned before the federation needs total reform and a dedication to grass roots rugby, growing numbers, stabilizing clubs and getting the best kids into France. There are a lot of Romanian emigres in England and France perhaps some may end up in rugby. Theo Dan playing for England is an example. Adrien Mitu son of Petre is playing espoirs rugby in France and is eligible.
Tonga will hope like the kid making his debut and scoring Tamoufolau that Moana Pasifika in SR can provide them with a regular stream of players. But you also have to see the pride of these players. Some who are retiring from the international scene lie Surigiu and Gorin in tears. People decry these teams but it means so much to these players.
Fiji will need to buck up their ideas. The lineout is still not functioning, neither is maul defence and with their coaches visibly upset they reverted to their old ways of playing as individuals. Highly talented of course but it's a team sport and that doesn't win games at this level. They played a very structured game to beat England, Australia and would have beaten Wales but for the referee but in their last 2 games whether it's being too casual or taking the opposition for granted their level has dropped.
They'll need to revert to their A game to beat England. And hope Mayanavanua is fit too. But no small credit to Os Lobos and Lagisquet who will have made many fans of the neutrals and put Portuguese rugby firmly on the map. The celebrations at the end was rugby in it's pure form. Commiserating with the other team and then celebrating directly with your fans. Something that rarely happens in sports today.
The sevens influence and the old French style were very much in evidence. They've shown what T2 sides with some real preparation including a warm up game against Ireland can do. They have been a joy to watch. The benefits will be another boost to junior playing numbers which are increasing all the time anyway. More awareness in the general public in Portugal and sponsorship and some players like Portela getting pro contracts abroad.
To admit them to the 6N is premature as the depth in squad is not there. Lusitanos need ideally to be in the URC or a second tier URC and have sufficient depth to be competitive over a season. The entire front row are on the verge of retirement and Marques at 37 will need replacing. However their u20s are pretty decent. Also the question of their coaching direction with Lagisquet ending his tenure.
Georgia are the side that need admittance to the 6N and u20 6N. Despite not having performed as they should that comes down to poor player selections, injuries and coaches who are not of the top drawer. The scorelines against Australia bely the chances they wasted and against Wales the scoreline would have been far tighter but for a gift of a try and 2 tries that were fortunate to be awarded including one with a suspiciously forward pass.
Their u20s have some exceptional players one or two already making their mark in the Top14 and they have the depth to play a sustained tournament like the 6N. Black Lion should be in the URC as of right not having to travel to South Africa to play Currie Cup. Unfortunately the stick in the muds still want to keep the door closed. World in Union. Lol.
Samoa also desperately unfortunate. They showed what they can do and again with Moana Pasifika as a template I hope they can carry that forward. England looked mediocre and incredibly uninspired and made for most of the game to look incredibly ordinary.
The winner still will come from Ireland, France, SA and NZ. Ireland didn't let Scotland have a sniff until they relaxed. Clinical performance. Bench strength though could be a deciding factor in what are expected to be these titanic clashes along with discipline.
For most of the Tier 2s the things WR could help them with are more Tests v T1s. Specialist coaching on lineouts, maul defence and for several of these sides to find decent props to anchor their scrums. In some cases it is sheer size that is an issue. Other things. Place kicking coaches and also general IQ. Rugby is a game of territory. Too often T2s don't play this well and end up under incessant pressure. Professionalism for all would solve a lot of the issues in contact and rucks because players would have higher core strengths. Sadly WR is still very much an Anglocolonial relic and doesn't have the people to make these decisions or indeed upset the applecart by for example asking for Lions tours to be scrapped. They really need to rapidly increase the competitive depth and strength of the sides ranked 14-30 in the world currently.
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I am not exposed
Registered User
Quarter final predictions
New Zealand vs. Ireland. I think New Zealand win with a dodgy decision.
South Africa vs. France. Dupont not 100%. Libbok actually has a good kicking game from the tee.
England vs. Fiji. England win this more comfortably than most of their fans think.
Wales vs. Argentina. Wales win comfortably.
New Zealand vs. Ireland. I think New Zealand win with a dodgy decision.
South Africa vs. France. Dupont not 100%. Libbok actually has a good kicking game from the tee.
England vs. Fiji. England win this more comfortably than most of their fans think.
Wales vs. Argentina. Wales win comfortably.
The Marquis
Moderator
I’m a casual enjoyer of Rugby, but I’ve got tickets to the Saturday semifinal. I’m really hoping France makes it that far. I’d love to be there for that.
Dingo
Registered User
- Jul 13, 2018
- 1,816
- 1,814
I hope you are wrong about NZ Ireland. Funny that you included a guess on reffing. NZ always seems to get the benefit of the doubt.
Im hoping that Wales and Ireland meet in the semi, sending one of the two through. That would be huge, as neither have done it but both are always game.
An all- Northern hemisphere final also looks possible, which would also be a first. I suppose that it COULD be 4 northern teams in the final four, as well.
Going to be an exciting weekend, thats for sure.
I am not exposed
Registered User
I'm rooting for Ireland, but I think New Zealand come through it somehow. Unfortunately.
I hope so but as a proud Kiwi I'm going to say this game scares the absolute crap out of me
The Irish play in a way that mitigates a lot of our strengths and when we have beaten them recently its been by the skin of our teeth
spintheblackcircle
incoming!!!
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The ref in the Wales-Argentina match hurt his knee after 10 minutes and had to be replaced.
Argentina missed an early chance and are down 10-0, Wales much better
Argentina missed an early chance and are down 10-0, Wales much better
spintheblackcircle
incoming!!!
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A few Wales mistakes right before half and it's 10-6. Anything can happen, (says the guy who has not watched rugby before this year) LOL
I've watched rugby since the 2007 World Cup and I still have no idea what I'm talking about.
I am not exposed
Registered User
John Adams the Welsh player was lucky not to get a yellow card at the end of the half.
I think Wales for the most part look comfortable and the scoreline flatters Argentina. I think Wales pull away in the second half.
I am not exposed
Registered User
I've been watching since 1991, and started playing in 1995. Sometimes I don't even know what's going on with penalties! haha
They're easy to notice if you're on the field playing forward (I played flanker). Other than that, I just trust the ref.
spintheblackcircle
incoming!!!
- Mar 1, 2002
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I’m still at the point when I hear “offside” I have no idea what they see
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