Roy or Hasek?

[Killion]

With skates it's a little bit different because we always skated on the lake and you would often freeze your fingers because of the cold, so it wasn't that strange if your dad helped you tie a knot once in a while, at that age.

... oh sure.... and of course back in the day before the boom in community and indoor arena construction in urban settings league games were played outdoors and yes, it was bloody cold at times. To a kid 5, 7. 10 or whatever with the wind chill factor, sun obscured or playing into it, night games under floodlights it could feel like absolute zero on the Kelvin Scale. Especially if you were a Goalie though fortunately in my case I started playing the position indoors though earlier played Left Wing and all of that outdoors in league play (shinny as well but thats different).

I well remember Dads tying up or untying their Squirts, Tykes & Atoms' skates. Pretty hard for a kid to be doing when his hands are frozen solid in a Claw huh? Never mind that he cant feel them nor his feet at all. Ears, nose & cheeks beet red from Severe Frostbite or if lucky a ghostly white from the Superficial stage though in both cases.... immediate hospitalization & critical care very much a possibility, recommended....

Seriously. Well do I recall feeling like a Sword Fish on the deck of a North Atlantic Troller in January flash frozen but hideously still alive by the middle of the 1st Period of play. So cold in fact & too numb to even think straight that I would ignore the Center Ice Red Line entirely and the Referee's Off-Side whistle's, howls of outrage from both benches scoring Buckets of goals as skating full-on Breakaway speed was the only way to keep warm... unless the wind was against you of course... in which case you'd all be blown into your own end boards leaving the Goalie to his own devices.... in a semi conscious state the poor wee Bastid....

.... and which is why until the early 60's most Goalies were Porky see. All that extra fat meant they could keep warmer than the rest of us. Ja. Is true story. Look it up. Lumley (Apple Cheeks = 3rd Degree Frostbite), Sawchuk, Hall, Broda, Bower, Gumpster etc. Fat Boys.... Fact. HOH.

 

[Troubadour]

This is just horrible logic. H2H results can't be irrelevant in one case and relevant in another.

I don't wanna sound smug, but I knew what I meant; do you?

If you want to, consider them relevant in both cases. Does Belfour-Hasek H2H switch the argument in favor of Belfour? Absolutely not, thus irrelevant.

If the case is so close as Hasek-Roy is according to many, may their H2H play a role? Definitely.

Do you get it know?

EDIT: To prevent any further pseudo-arguments on this, I decided to demonstrate my point in the most embarrassingly obvious manner.

None of the people who refuse or just can't wrap their brains around the perfectly logically sound fact that many aspects may vary in relevance across different comparisons will have any problem with that afterwards, trust me.

They don't even have to be a woman or gay to get it.

Imagine a hotness contest

Who's hotter?

This guy:

View media item 3379
(He's 6'6)

Or this guy

View media item 3377
(He is 5'10, if even that)

Of course, B is the correct answer, and no-one but the ugly man's blind mother will ever wonder why.

Imagine a different hotness contest.
Who's hotter? This guy

View media item 3377
(He's 5'10, if even that.)

Or this guy

View media item 3381
(He's 6'3, yes!)

After a brief thought, B is the correct answer again. In this case, many will wonder why. As far as facial features go, they're both gorgeous. What do I say? Because B is taller!

Let's pretend the ugly guy's mother has remained with us up till here. What will her biased majesty squeal?

My son is even taller!

Yes ma'am, but as far as your son goes, height is completely irrelevant.

That's a terrible, terrible, terrible logic. Either height is, or it is not relevant!

Now, let me ask you, dear @BraveCanadian. How would you explain to that poor lady that in one instance, height matters, while in another, it's just fluff.

Hush! Don't tell me. Tell to yourself!

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Brodeur is in the discussion and is most certainly in the same class. Those who don't think so foolishly hold an unqualified stat like sv% in too much esteem or simply have an unjustifiable bias. All of the typical narratives about system or defensemen in front of him are completely bogus.

OT but what was harder to watch? brodeur last week, or giguere holding the conn smythe?



vs

 

[sr edler]

I always (or at least most often) find these speeches really awkward to watch. Any disclaimer what happened?

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

I always (or at least most often) find these speeches really awkward to watch. Any disclaimer what happened?

a lot of crying

 

[sr edler]

a lot of crying

Haha, I watched it, I thought it would be a lot worse actually. I wanted to see some actual real big tears!

Perhaps it's a bit different though if isn't a player you've been invested in or a fan of. When I watched Bure's HHOF speech (not the whole, but the start), I thought it was just boring because he came across as a listless bank clerk reading the annual financial report for the bank manager.

 

[sr edler]

I watched a bit of Mats Sundin's HHOF speech too, as he was in the same class as Bure, and while he seemed more comfortable and laid back as a public speaker, it just came across so scripted right from the start that I couldn't finish it.

I also listened a bit to his Sommar radio program here in Sweden, and while he a had a lot better music taste than Markus Näslund, he just came across so extremely normal that it became pretty uninteresting to listen to.

 

[Neutrinos]

To be fair to Roy, we'll disregard some of his bloated playoff numbers from the late 80's, and we'll compare their playoff stats starting from the time that Hasek entered the league in 1991 up until Roy's retirement in 2003:

From '91 - '03, Roy's playoffs stats:
2.27 GAA, .921 SV%

From '91 - '03, Hasek's playoff stats:
2.03 GAA, .927 SV%

 

[VanIslander]

Hasek or Roy.

Yes.

That is my final ANSWER.

(Good question.)

 

[The Panther]

To be fair to Roy, we'll disregard some of his bloated playoff numbers from the late 80's...

No reason to ignore anything starting from 1988. I think 1988-89 was his best-ever season, closely followed by 1989-90. In the playoffs in '89, he went 13-6, with a .920. Those are good numbers today, let alone in the 80s.

 

[Tuna Tatarrrrrr]

Roy no question.

 

[JackSlater]

I prefer Hasek. I don't think that the arguments for Roy are outlandish, but they are not the main things I look for. It's also simpler than that - to me Hasek looked better.

 

[sabremike]

Remember the insane performance by Bishop in that game 7 a few weeks back? In his time with the Sabres Hasek had performances like that on a fairly routine basis.

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

Because the regular season doesn't matter much I vote Roy

 

[Neutrinos]

Because the regular season doesn't matter much I vote Roy

From '91 - '03, Roy's playoffs stats:
2.27 GAA, .921 SV%

From '91 - '03, Hasek's playoff stats:
2.03 GAA, .927 SV%

 

[Asheville]

Roy was awesome.....until Hasek was on the other end of the ice.

 

[whcanuck]

To me, Hasek's peak was insane. That period from '94 to '99 he was one of the best players on the planet, not just goaltenders. He was the biggest reason the Sabres made it to the finals in '99 and why the Czech Republic won the gold medal in the '98 Olympics. Having said that, for a career, it's Roy. He was great from start to finish. He came into the league with a bang, and was basically a top-flight goaltender his entire career. 3 Conn Smythes is an NHL record, and Roy was always a beast whenever you needed him to be. His playoff record speaks for itself.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

LOL so why was Roy the only one PLAYER to win the award three time in the history of the game over players like Gretzky, Lemieux and Orr?

Only 7 goalies in history I believe have won the Hart. Hasek did it in back to back seasons. How many goalies have won the Conn Smythe? What about the Lester B Pearson? Cmon you need to do better than this? How about vezina's, you know, the award that covers the entire season worth of games. Looking at these 20-25 game runs is fun and all, but it does little for me. This micro-analyzing individual playoff series and individual games is silly.

Hasek is the Gretzky of goaltenders, I was hoping to read some compelling arguments against it, but the more I have read the more convinced I am that this is Hasek all day.

 

[Tuna Tatarrrrrr]

Hasek is the Gretzky of goaltenders, I was hoping to read some compelling arguments against it, but the more I have read the more convinced I am that this is Hasek all day.

LOL "the Gretzky of goaltenders..." Where are all his playoffs records then? Oh I forgot, Roy owns nearly all of them, he must be the real Gretzky of goaltenders.

 

[Neutrinos]

Winning 3 Conn Smythes is great, but it just means Roy had 3 great playoff runs

Based on the numbers, Hasek was the better playoff goalie on a per-game basis

 

[Tuna Tatarrrrrr]

Winning 3 Conn Smythes is great, but it just means Roy had 3 great playoff runs

Based on the numbers, Hasek was the better playoff goalie on a per-game basis

Yep something Hasek has never done though but "HaSeK iS bEtTeR"...

 

[Doctor No]

Based on the numbers, Hasek was the better playoff goalie on a per-game basis

"Numbers" don't say a damn thing.

What I think you mean is that "Based on the numbers [that I choose to focus on and place importance to, my subjective interpretation is that] Hasek was the better playoff goalie on a per-game basis."

Does that help?

 

[Neutrinos]

Yep something Hasek has never done though but "HaSeK iS bEtTeR"...

And Roy never won the Hart trophy, or Lester Pearson


Bill Ranford has a Conn Smythe, does that mean he was better than Belfour?

 

[Tuna Tatarrrrrr]

And Roy never won the Hart trophy, or Lester Pearson


Bill Ranford has a Conn Smythe, does that mean he was better than Belfour?

And Hasek has never won a Conn Smythe.

José Théodore has a Hart, does that mean he was better than Roy?

 

[Neutrinos]

And Hasek has never won a Conn Smythe.

José Théodore has a Hart, does that mean he was better than Roy?

Exactly. Awards don't determine who the better player was

Which is why I said "Based on the numbers, Hasek was the better playoff goalie on a per-game basis"

From '91 - '03, Roy's playoffs stats:
2.27 GAA, .921 SV%

From '91 - '03, Hasek's playoff stats:
2.03 GAA, .927 SV%