Prospect Info: Round 1, Pick 27: Morgan Frost, C, Sault Ste. Marie (OHL)

[TB87]

Yep. That’s my point. In the O he adjusted then dominated.
He either didn’t make or was pedestrian in best in best type games.
He’s a slow cooker. Nothing wrong with that.
Once he’s ready. He’s likely going to be a good one. Just needs time

Slow cookers generally don’t start off their first pro season with 12pts in their first 13 games. He’s remedying his natural tendency to slow things down while he has possession in the NZ. That’s the primary issue with his game right now. His defensive play is solid and his hockey sense is very, very good. Would be a bit of a shock really if he wasn’t an NHL regular by the time Dec/Jan roll around.

WJC, & the Russia series are events that are considered, generously I might add, a “small sample size.” Coming to any kind of conclusions about a player based on how they play in those events is a flimsy thought process. It’s a more sound process to place a greater emphasis on how a player performs in the regular season. Playoffs too, but only if the players team makes it far and plays a lot of games. The more games played, the more info to glean from a players performance.

 

[Dr Hook McCraken]

Slow cookers generally don’t start off their first pro season with 12pts in their first 13 games. He’s remedying his natural tendency to slow things down while he has possession in the NZ. That’s the primary issue with his game right now. His defensive play is solid and his hockey sense is very, very good. Would be a bit of a shock really if he wasn’t an NHL regular by the time Dec/Jan roll around.

WJC, & the Russia series are events that are considered, generously I might add, a “small sample size.” Coming to any kind of conclusions about a player based on how they play in those events is a flimsy thought process. It’s a more sound process to place a greater emphasis on how a player performs in the regular season. Playoffs too, but only if the players team makes it far and plays a lot of games. The more games played, the more info to glean from a players performance.

Yep like I said. He’s good. Tons of talent. Seems to need time to adjust to higher competition. But he’ll get there.
All good.

 

[Rebels57]

I think my Igor Silent is about to have another member.

 

[Dr Hook McCraken]

Speaking of prospects. Going to the Wolves game tomorrow night Sudbury vs the Soo. Buddy of mine is with hockey Canada. Checking out Byfield.

I’m happy the Flyers are winning. But this would have been a good year to be bad. Tons of good prospects in this draft. Byfield would look great in orange and black.
Sadly projected top 5.
How do we get into the top 5. Want that kid

 

[FLYguy3911]

Bulk of his points in one game against....Denmark? They have a team?

Every player in the tournament got at least one crack against Denmark or Kazakhstan. Not sure why that should be held against him. Their goalie went just outside of the 1st round fwiw. Farabee scored a hattrick against Kazakhstan, didn't score a goal against any other team. Good players tend to do this...as they should.

Also important to point out Frost was playing wing which he never did (in favor of his junior teammate who often played on his wing with SSM), wasn't on the top PP, and infamously didn't get a shift in OT when Canada got eliminated. So not exactly a guy that was getting propped up with favorable usage.

And as always, these are SSS events.

 

[FlyTimmo]

Bulk of his points in one game against....Denmark? They have a team?

couldn’t make the Canadian Jrs outside of one year.

was invisible during the super series.

just saying. I have concerns when the competition ratchets up. I’ve no doubt he’s going to be a good one. But may need time to get there.

You're grasping at straws my dude

 

[Dr Hook McCraken]

Every player in the tournament got at least one crack against Denmark or Kazakhstan. Not sure why that should be held against him. Their goalie went just outside of the 1st round fwiw. Farabee scored a hattrick against Kazakhstan, didn't score a goal against any other team. Good players tend to do this...as they should.

Also important to point out Frost was playing wing which he never did (in favor of his junior teammate who often played on his wing with SSM), wasn't on the top PP, and infamously didn't get a shift in OT when Canada got eliminated.

And as always, these are SSS events.

Understood. Appreciate the input.
I’m not trying to devalue Frost. He’s a helluva player
I just see him as a guy who needs a little time to adjust to higher caliber rather than the type who just walks in and takes it over immediately
Maybe I’m wrong...but from what I’ve seen of him he hasn’t shown me the ability to step into situations and take over. Immediately....
I know he’ll be good. I’m just comfortable giving him time to hone his craft in the A until he’s ready to step up and give the Flyers the player we all hope he’ll be.

 

[Dr Hook McCraken]

You're grasping at straws my dude

Opinion.

 

[Dr Hook McCraken]

You're grasping at straws my dude

Ever watch him live?

 

[Dr Hook McCraken]

I think my Igor Silent is about to have another member.

Fill your boots sunshine. I’ll not miss your nothing either.

in my limited time here you’ve brought nothing but negative comments to a new member

cheers! Thanks for being so gratious.

 

[FlyTimmo]

Ever watch him live?

Dozens of times

 

[Dr Hook McCraken]

Dozens of times

Nice. So what are your thoughts on him based on actual live performance.

 

[Starat327]

I think my Igor Silent is about to have another member.

Glad I got ahead of the gun on this ones. Looks to be some ripe opinions.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Understood. Appreciate the input.
I’m not trying to devalue Frost. He’s a helluva player
I just see him as a guy who needs a little time to adjust to higher caliber rather than the type who just walks in and takes it over immediately
Maybe I’m wrong...but from what I’ve seen of him he hasn’t shown me the ability to step into situations and take over. Immediately....
I know he’ll be good. I’m just comfortable giving him time to hone his craft in the A until he’s ready to step up and give the Flyers the player we all hope he’ll be.

I think people see his stat lines and expect to see a physically dominant player that can take over games with his skating and skill. He's not really that kind of player. He can skate. And he has plenty of skill, but most of his damage is done as a result of his feel for the game. Making heady subtle plays all over the ice, great anticipation, tremendous passes, etc. Does he make mistakes? Sure. Can he manage the puck better? Sure. But when you get called up to the National League, you aren't bringing the Greg Carey's of the world up with you. You actually get to play with guys of your skill level. Guys that think the game like you. You can play off of those guys. That's where Frost will really thrive. He won't have to create all of the offense by himself.

Every player needs time to adjust, but at the end of the day, he's a PPG player as a 20 year old rookie in the AHL. It's pretty damn impressive, especially after he went scoreless the first 3 games of the season and the sky was falling. So quite possibly him needing an extended "adjustment period" is just something built up in people's minds. He can play in the NHL right now and contribute. He won't be flawless, but he'll be effective. I have little doubt. Like others before him, I think people focus too much on what he can't do and not enough on what he can do. And what he can do is a hell of a lot.

 

[Dr Hook McCraken]

I think people see his stat lines and expect to see a physically dominant player that can take over games with his skating and skill. He's not really that kind of player. He can skate. And he has plenty of skill, but most of his damage is done as a result of his feel for the game. Making heady subtle plays all over the ice, great anticipation, tremendous passes, etc. Does he make mistakes? Sure. Can he manage the puck better? Sure. But when you get called up to the National League, you aren't bringing the Greg Carey's of the world up with you. You actually get to play with guys of your skill level. Guys that think the game like you. You can play off of those guys. That's where Frost will really thrive. He won't have to create all of the offense be himself.

Every player needs time to adjust, but at the end of the day, he's a PPG player as a 20 year old rookie in the AHL. It's pretty damn impressive, especially after he went scoreless the first 3 games of the season and the sky was falling. So quite possibly him needing an extended "adjustment period" is just something built up in people's minds. He can play in the NHL right now and contribute. He won't be flawless, but he'll be effective. I have little doubt. Like others before him, I think people focus too much on what he can't do and not enough on what he can do. And what he can do is a hell of a lot.

That’s a great response and evaluation. Thanks.
I’ll admit. I’ve only see him play 3 times live. And he wasn’t a factor in any game I saw. That doesn’t mean anything in it’s small sample. But combined with his inability to take his dominant act to the world juniors or other big games I had concerns.
Thanks for the insight. Appreciated.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

My biggest concerns with Frost with respect to being NHL-ready now are his pace of play, his strength, & his play away from the puck.

Center in the NHL is a damn difficult position & it’s easy to be eaten alive as a skinny 20 year old against big, strong, smart NHL vets. I mean, Vorobyev & Rubtsov got crushed. Frost has good hockey sense, so eventually he should be fine defensively, but he’s really going to have to earn their trust away from the puck in the AHL before he gets a callup. The skill isn’t a question.

 

[Tripod]

It's amazing Nick Suzuki can survive in the NHL given Frost can't. Slightly outplayed when on the ice, but helping the team win.

Suzuki: 49.24 CF%, 48.11 XGF%, 44.07 HDCF%

I would take those number for Frost as a #3C letting Giroux to move to LW where he is better. Oh, and it pushes Twar down replacing AA or Pitlick.

 

[deadhead]

Watching Frost in the AHL, I think he'll score in the NHL because he can flash instantly, and has the offensive skill package, speed, quickness, vision, wrist shot.

But, he doesn't stand out, and yes, that matters, when I saw Farabee in the WJC-20, instant love, Farabee in pre-season, wow, only issue was strength, Farabee in the NHL, well, notwithstanding his share of mistakes and getting pushed around, the puck finds him.

Can't say that about Frost. It's not that he can't play, but he disappears for long stretches.
He may be smart and fundamentally sound, but he lacks the great instincts.
And he doesn't play fast. He probably could beat TK in a foot race, but TK at 19 played fast, clueless at times, but he did everything fast, including his mistakes.

Which is why he needs seasoning, Giroux who plays "slow," had 33 AHL games and came up around his 21st birthday, and I think that helped him adjust.
[Playing slow reflects a more deliberate style where you size up opportunities instead of skating willy nilly, but it requires more experience to make it work]
Even so, in Giroux's first full season, at age 22, he only had 26 ES points playing 12:57 at ES. CF 51.00%, CFrel -1.8. Pretty meh.
Giroux's coming out party were the playoffs after that season, where he emerged as a dominant player.
And he was initially a RW, not a center (with Briere, Carter and Richards at center).

 

[deadhead]

It's amazing Nick Suzuki can survive in the NHL given Frost can't. Slightly outplayed when on the ice, but helping the team win.

Suzuki: 49.24 CF%, 48.11 XGF%, 44.07 HDCF%

I would take those number for Frost as a #3C letting Giroux to move to LW where he is better. Oh, and it pushes Twar down replacing AA or Pitlick.

Those are pretty mediocre especially when combined with 5 ES points in 17 games [24 point pace].
You could probably get similar production just plugging in Laughton at 3C. And similar mediocre defense.
Which is why we really miss the player Patrick should be this season.

If that's all you're gonna get from Frost right now, there's no reason to rush him to the NHL.

 

[Tripod]

Those are pretty mediocre especially when combined with 5 ES points in 17 games [24 point pace].
You could probably get similar production just plugging in Laughton at 3C. And similar mediocre defense.
Which is why we really miss the player Patrick should be this season.

If that's all you're gonna get from Frost right now, there's no reason to rush him to the NHL.

So it's pretty much what Patrick has been in his career so far, right?

Not asking him to save the franchise as a rookie or be Barzal. If he filled in UNTIL Laughton was ready, that helps us now to fill the gap. Then based on his own play, you make the decision once Laughton is back what the next move is...more seasoning...or replace with Laughton.

 

[deadhead]

It's hard to compare Patrick with any other player, how many players have major abdominal surgery two straight summers before their rookie season?
This was the season Patrick was going to have added strength and finally was healthy - then the migraines.
And he'd have been a perfect fit for AV's system, given it's emphasis on defensive play by the centers.

If Frost can't give us more than Suzuki has done in Montreal, then he'd have zero impact on our winning games.
Laughton will be back in two weeks and can give us that at 3C if AV wants to move Giroux back to LW.
But AV might just stick with the current lineup until then, given they're 5-0-1.

It's a judgment call, will Frost develop faster in the AHL or as a 3C in the NHL?
Now once Frost has 30 or so AHL games under his belt, odds are that judgment starts shifting toward the NHL.
Even then, depends on Patrick, if he returns, the emergence of Farabee makes it hard to fit Frost in until he's good enough to move Hayes to RW.

These are rich people's problems.

 

[Tripod]

It's hard to compare Patrick with any other player, how many players have major abdominal surgery two straight summers before their rookie season?
This was the season Patrick was going to have added strength and finally was healthy - then the migraines.
And he'd have been a perfect fit for AV's system, given it's emphasis on defensive play by the centers.

If Frost can't give us more than Suzuki has done in Montreal, then he'd have zero impact on our winning games.
Laughton will be back in two weeks and can give us that at 3C if AV wants to move Giroux back to LW.
But AV might just stick with the current lineup until then, given they're 5-0-1.

It's a judgment call, will Frost develop faster in the AHL or as a 3C in the NHL?
Now once Frost has 30 or so AHL games under his belt, odds are that judgment starts shifting toward the NHL.
Even then, depends on Patrick, if he returns, the emergence of Farabee makes it hard to fit Frost in until he's good enough to move Hayes to RW.

These are rich people's problems.

So if Frost did what Suzuki is doing, what Patrick has done, and what Laughton has done...it has ZERO impact on winning games?

At times, I wonder if you even believe what you write.

 

[deadhead]

Laughton is a 30 point ES scorer who is substantially bigger than Frost, he lacks defensive instincts, but how good would Frost be right now?
So I'd consider both Patrick and Laughton > Frost as a 3C, RIGHT NOW, in AV's system.

I'd really like to see Frost look more in command before we bring him up, especially b/c we don't have the ideal wings to match with him.
A month from now he may well be a better bet at 3C than Laughton (though not a healthy Patrick).

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Every time I think it cant get worse, it does.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Giroux was way grittier & rougher on the boards than Frost, & G was even smaller. There’s a reason he had Doug Gilmour comparisons. Frost would never get a Gilmour comp. And for the 50th time, I REALLY LIKE FROST. I think he’s going to be good.