Speculation: Roster Speculation 2017-18 Part 2

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

Maatta's contract makes him a total non starter to me.

It's horrible given where he is now. You could pair him and Bogo together as a ten million dollar pair who are never healthy and play like ****.

Nightmares. That would be almost as bad as two headed dragon in Dallas. No thanks. Bogo and Ennis are enough as a reclamation projects on high salary. We also still have Gorges and Moulson for 1-2 more years. Maatta is literally the last thing I want on our roster.

 

[dkollidas]

i wonder if we don't see a move that brings in multiple defensemen from Vegas. Maybe Kane, with a small plus for Jack Johnson & Trevor VanRiemsdyk?

And then buffalo also sends Vegas something like a 2017 2nd & 2018 3rd Round Pick so that they take one of Ennis/Moulson (preferably Moulson).

Then you'd have a defense of
Johnson-Ristolainen
McCabe-Antipin
Bogosian-Van Riemsdyk

Not the best thing ever but it's a way to add cheaply.

I just don't think Kane gets us a player on the level we're looking for.

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

i wonder if we don't see a move that brings in multiple defensemen from Vegas. Maybe Kane, with a small plus for Jack Johnson & Trevor VanRiemsdyk?

And then buffalo also sends Vegas something like a 2017 2nd & 2018 3rd Round Pick so that they take one of Ennis/Moulson (preferably Moulson).

Then you'd have a defense of
Johnson-Ristolainen
McCabe-Antipin
Bogosian-Van Riemsdyk

Not the best thing ever but it's a way to add cheaply.

I just don't think Kane gets us a player on the level we're looking for.

Vegas are not giving up 2 NHL level D-s for Evander Kane. Doubt their GM is an idiot lol 1 maybe is fair, but you don't get the other one for a 2nd. Kane + 2 2nds maybe they think about it. But that's giving up assets for mediocre D...not too keen.

 

[Ace]

I do think that if Kane gets moved Vegas makes the most sense. There just aren't going to be goal scorers out there under the expansion draft system. They also don't have to worry about fitting in his cap number.

But it's impossible to speculate since...you know...they don't have players.

 

[Chainshot]

I wonder how much groundwork has been laid for deals around the expansion draft and the regular draft with most of the front office types in town for the combine? Botterill can certainly get some more feelers out.

 

[NotABadPeriod]

With most of the front office types in town for the combine, I wonder how much groundwork has been laid for restaurants around the expansion draft and the regular ve with most of the front office types in town for the combine, I wonder how much groundwork has been laid for restaurants around the expansion draft and the entry draft this week? Botterill can certainly get some more feelers out.

Yeah, you wouldn't want to try and close a deal eating at a Chinese restaurant if the other guy likes Italian. Makes sense to get that out of the way now.

 

[Chainshot]

Yeah, you wouldn't want to try and close a deal eating at a Chinese restaurant if the other guy likes Italian. Makes sense to get that out of the way now.

Siri edit fail.

 

[is the answer jesus]

I'd rather wait till the expansion draft is over to determine if we pick a goalie. I'm all for throwing a deal Vegas' way for Ullmark. If GMJB can get that done, then picking a goalie early isn't that important.

If Ullmark is gone, then picking a goalie gets a relook.

I've been saying for months I think Ullmark is the guy Vegas takes and honestly it's not that big of a deal. Hell if it makes it a more appealing situation to get Petersen into the fold it may even work out for the best. I'm not giving Vegas anything to not take Ullmark. Giving them a pick or prospect to take Ennis or Moulson is a better plan. As for taking a goalie in the 1st 2 rounds I'll pass. Take a mid-round guy and hope he develops.

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

I've been saying for months I think Ullmark is the guy Vegas takes and honestly it's not that big of a deal. Hell if it makes it a more appealing situation to get Petersen into the fold it may even work out for the best. I'm not giving Vegas anything to not take Ullmark. Giving them a pick or prospect to take Ennis or Moulson is a better plan. As for taking a goalie in the 1st 2 rounds I'll pass. Take a mid-round guy and hope he develops.

Is there success rates per goalie draft in terms of where they were taken in the draft? Like from 2005 to 2012 or something like that? Would be interested to check out how random exactly it is with goalies. I know there's plenty of late round picks but not sure how the stats look exactly.

 

[BananaSquad]

I've been saying for months I think Ullmark is the guy Vegas takes and honestly it's not that big of a deal. Hell if it makes it a more appealing situation to get Petersen into the fold it may even work out for the best. I'm not giving Vegas anything to not take Ullmark. Giving them a pick or prospect to take Ennis or Moulson is a better plan. As for taking a goalie in the 1st 2 rounds I'll pass. Take a mid-round guy and hope he develops.

This all day, Lehner is the starter for years to come.

 

[Ace]

I said last July that Ullmark made the most sense given the crap sandwich we'd leave available. Everyone told me this either would never happen or it would be the best case scernerio for us (which made no sense then and makes no sense now).

Throw in Peterson's situation and it's doubly fun now.

 

[Der Jaeger]

I've been saying for months I think Ullmark is the guy Vegas takes and honestly it's not that big of a deal. Hell if it makes it a more appealing situation to get Petersen into the fold it may even work out for the best. I'm not giving Vegas anything to not take Ullmark. Giving them a pick or prospect to take Ennis or Moulson is a better plan. As for taking a goalie in the 1st 2 rounds I'll pass. Take a mid-round guy and hope he develops.

I think one of the good ways to work goalies on the NHL roster is to have a starter and a younger goalie who is up and coming. Ullmark pressures Lehner. Then have another goalie in Rochester, who puts pressure on the NHL goalies. And have another goalie in juniors, NCAA, or Europe working toward Rochester.

Keep that going like a conveyor belt. Lehner prices himself beyond the cap structure. Ullmark becomes the starter, Petersen moves from Rochester to Buffalo. And so on.

I'm down with throwing a player like Hagel to Vegas to either keep Ullmark or to ensure McPhee selects a particular player.

 

[Der Jaeger]

With Tanev seemingly out of play, what to do? I've been traveling for the last week thinking it through a bit. I wonder if GMJB fills defense with Pittsburgh style players to complement Ristolainen. Also thinking about going all in on defense in this draft.

Re: Kane. Maybe the best play is to move him for futures. Either someone has to love him (Wild, Canucks), or a team which feels pressure to make a short term move, or a team that's ok moving futures for one year of Kane.

I don't think Minnesota or Vancouver will take him on. Minnesota is looking to move contracts as well as buffer against the expansion draft. Vancouver doesn't have the futures that GMJB would want. Best futures Benning offers is 33 overall.

Montreal: Could Bergevin take on Kane? He fits Julien's play style. Montreal took a chance with Radulov, but also moved Subban for internal issues. If Bergevin is feeling the heat maybe he mortgages the future for single season gain. Kane is exactly the type of player the Habs could've used in the playoffs. 25 overall?

Boston: Kane seems to be a fit. Sweeney is a trader, and Kane fits what Boston is looking for. 18 overall?

Edmonton: So close to getting to the WCF. Chiarelli seems to be surrounding his centers with big, power wingers. 22 overall?

If one of those trades works out (with adds and tweeks), that puts GMJB in trade up striking range, in a move similar to what Regier did in 2012 to get Girgensons. Add in assets to move up, use 8 to take Makar, Valimaki, or Brannstrom. Then use the next pick to take Valimaki or Brannstrom, depending on how 8 shakes out.

I'd be very excited if GMJB could walk away from the first round with Valimaki and Brannstrom.

Then fill the defense with mid- to lower-end moves. Sign Brendan Smith? Trade with Vegas for either Ian Cole, Schultz, or Maatta, whoever Pittsburgh leaves unprotected? Trade with Vegas for another D, like CDH or Demers (depends on who's selected, of course). Hainsey, to get Bogosian jump started? Low budget last chance move, like Poulliot? (Deliberately using mostly Pens examples; aware that there are more options).

I think GMJB could go big on D in the draft, then patchwork until they're ready. Guhle is already close. A defender like Valimaki isn't that far away. It's not an immediate fix approach, but with a play style change, it could work.

 

[CatsforReinhart]

If we can trade Reinhart for a 1-2 defenceman to cornerstone our defence for 10 years imo we do it or Kane+ for a 3-4 defenceman and draft Glass at the draft(If available).

 

[MacOfNiagara]

I'd rather wait till the expansion draft is over to determine if we pick a goalie. I'm all for throwing a deal Vegas' way for Ullmark. If GMJB can get that done, then picking a goalie early isn't that important.

If Ullmark is gone, then picking a goalie gets a relook.

I cant see burning assets when we are in one of the best expansion protection situations in the league.

What are you proposing we offer to convince the not to take Ullmark? If they take him, sign Petersen. If he doesnt sign, then pick up a ufa backup. I cant see burning assets in this situation as a wise move.

 

[Chainshot]

With Tanev seemingly out of play, what to do? I've been traveling for the last week thinking it through a bit. I wonder if GMJB fills defense with Pittsburgh style players to complement Ristolainen. Also thinking about going all in on defense in this draft.

Re: Kane. Maybe the best play is to move him for futures. Either someone has to love him (Wild, Canucks), or a team which feels pressure to make a short term move, or a team that's ok moving futures for one year of Kane.

I don't think Minnesota or Vancouver will take him on. Minnesota is looking to move contracts as well as buffer against the expansion draft. Vancouver doesn't have the futures that GMJB would want. Best futures Benning offers is 33 overall.

Montreal: Could Bergevin take on Kane? He fits Julien's play style. Montreal took a chance with Radulov, but also moved Subban for internal issues. If Bergevin is feeling the heat maybe he mortgages the future for single season gain. Kane is exactly the type of player the Habs could've used in the playoffs. 25 overall?

Boston: Kane seems to be a fit. Sweeney is a trader, and Kane fits what Boston is looking for. 18 overall?

Edmonton: So close to getting to the WCF. Chiarelli seems to be surrounding his centers with big, power wingers. 22 overall?

If one of those trades works out (with adds and tweeks), that puts GMJB in trade up striking range, in a move similar to what Regier did in 2012 to get Girgensons. Add in assets to move up, use 8 to take Makar, Valimaki, or Brannstrom. Then use the next pick to take Valimaki or Brannstrom, depending on how 8 shakes out.

I'd be very excited if GMJB could walk away from the first round with Valimaki and Brannstrom.

Then fill the defense with mid- to lower-end moves. Sign Brendan Smith? Trade with Vegas for either Ian Cole, Schultz, or Maatta, whoever Pittsburgh leaves unprotected? Trade with Vegas for another D, like CDH or Demers (depends on who's selected, of course). Hainsey, to get Bogosian jump started? Low budget last chance move, like Poulliot? (Deliberately using mostly Pens examples; aware that there are more options).

I think GMJB could go big on D in the draft, then patchwork until they're ready. Guhle is already close. A defender like Valimaki isn't that far away. It's not an immediate fix approach, but with a play style change, it could work.

Yep, it's not a linear "Trade Kane for Defenseman" market. It's "Trade Kane for assets that allow for another trade for a defenseman". Making Vegas an offer for someone on the expansion unprotected list still seems like the way to go.

 

[is the answer jesus]

I think one of the good ways to work goalies on the NHL roster is to have a starter and a younger goalie who is up and coming. Ullmark pressures Lehner. Then have another goalie in Rochester, who puts pressure on the NHL goalies. And have another goalie in juniors, NCAA, or Europe working toward Rochester.

Keep that going like a conveyor belt. Lehner prices himself beyond the cap structure. Ullmark becomes the starter, Petersen moves from Rochester to Buffalo. And so on.

I'm down with throwing a player like Hagel to Vegas to either keep Ullmark or to ensure McPhee selects a particular player.

It might be a bit of a stretch to have Petersen on the nhl squad backing up Lehner, but it might be the only way to get him to sign here. Having 2 other goalies higher on the pecking order probably isn't all that of an enticing situation for Petersen to walk in to. If we went that route we keep the better long-term goalie prospect and keep that "conveyor belt" going. Petersen gets a chance to be on the big club and gets himself closer to a bigger payday faster than if he sits in the AHL for a year or two.

 

[jcbeze]

I cant see burning assets when we are in one of the best expansion protection situations in the league.

What are you proposing we offer to convince the not to take Ullmark? If they take him, sign Petersen. If he doesnt sign, then pick up a ufa backup. I cant see burning assets in this situation as a wise move.

And if Peterson walks? We need Ullmark, badly

 

[Team Cozens]

I think one of the good ways to work goalies on the NHL roster is to have a starter and a younger goalie who is up and coming. Ullmark pressures Lehner. Then have another goalie in Rochester, who puts pressure on the NHL goalies. And have another goalie in juniors, NCAA, or Europe working toward Rochester.

Keep that going like a conveyor belt. Lehner prices himself beyond the cap structure. Ullmark becomes the starter, Petersen moves from Rochester to Buffalo. And so on.

I'm down with throwing a player like Hagel to Vegas to either keep Ullmark or to ensure McPhee selects a particular player.

Depends on the cost. But if it's to take Moulson off our hands, yes please.

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

I'm not moving Kane just to move him. A late first in this draft is terrible value for Kane considering what offense he provided and what we gave up. Now if the asset acquired for Kane is immediately moved for roster help then sure. But for a team who hasn't made the playoffs in six mother****ing seasons is trading its best pure goal scorer for a late first in a weak draft...just makes zero sense. I know Kane has one year left. I'd rather hold onto him for a playoff push. He continues his scoring pace he's put up as a Sabre then a first in 2018 at the deadline is a lock, and a much better draft.

 

[Ace]

So...a first round pick isn't good enough value...but letting him go for nothing to try and improve nearly 20 points overnight is? Because maybe you can get...a first round pick at the deadline...

Hmm

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

The issue is the better player we want, the better package we have to give up. With a number of teams looking to better their D and minimum decent UFA availability, I doubt we can get Brodin for anything less than Reinhart even if Minny has to add to Brodin for that. Our fanbase seems to not be keen on that scenario. We don't have much else to entice them to give us Brodin when other teams would likely outbid us with NHL ready players if we try to center the trade around 8OA and/or Nylander. While Murray is likely doable for anything around these two assets.

Minnesota is screwed. Their best bet is to move Dumba and Brodin for assets to avoid losing them for nothing. #8+Bailey is plenty for Brodin. No chance he gets Reinhart when he is most likely going to Vegas for free. Minnesota WILL LOSE one of Brodin or Dumba. If I was them I'd move them both for some major assets then lose them for nothing. Dumba for an expansion draft exempt young D ready to step in and Brodin for #8 and Bailey. Minnesota takes Liljegren. Much better long and short term then just losing Brodin or Dumba for free. Thank you Minny for letting Parise and Suter take those contracts. We dodged a major bullet.

So...a first round pick isn't good enough value...but letting him go for nothing to try and improve nearly 20 points overnight is? Because maybe you can get...a first round pick at the deadline...

Hmm

Convenient you left out the fact that 2018>>>>2017. Oh, and I'd prefer to just keep him because I don't foolishly believe our forwards are set minus Kane but with Bailey, Baptiste, Carrier, Fasching and Nylander. But I forgot the narrative is this team is better without Kane. I'm sure the rest of our stud forwards will pick up the slack. Who needs Kanes 25 goals. We got Bailey

If this team finishes bottom 8 again then it's already proven the rebuild failed. If a team has an elite center and a supposed franchise 1C in RoR along with a supposed long term #1 goalie and can't get out of the bottom 8 then it's pretty clear the core isn't good.

 

[BananaSquad]

I dont see Botterill making many moves.

 

[Jame]

I'm not moving Kane just to move him. A late first in this draft is terrible value for Kane considering what offense he provided and what we gave up. Now if the asset acquired for Kane is immediately moved for roster help then sure. But for a team who hasn't made the playoffs in six mother****ing seasons is trading its best pure goal scorer for a late first in a weak draft...just makes zero sense. I know Kane has one year left. I'd rather hold onto him for a playoff push. He continues his scoring pace he's put up as a Sabre then a first in 2018 at the deadline is a lock, and a much better draft.

^ thinks Kane is a better pure goal scorer than Eichel

 

[Djp]

Vegas are not giving up 2 NHL level D-s for Evander Kane. Doubt their GM is an idiot lol 1 maybe is fair, but you don't get the other one for a 2nd. Kane + 2 2nds maybe they think about it. But that's giving up assets for mediocre D...not too keen.

I think a deal can be made with vegas based on them picking a player then trading him yo buffal9 mainly for futures.

I'd rather wait till the expansion draft is over to determine if we pick a goalie. I'm all for throwing a deal Vegas' way for Ullmark. If GMJB can get that done, then picking a goalie early isn't that important.

If Ullmark is gone, then picking a goalie gets a relook.

Losing Ullmark in the expansion draft has no bearing on buffali drafting a goalie. Goalies just dont come in snd play. A goalie drafted won't see the nhl till 20/21 at the earliest.

I expect buffalo to draft a goalie at some point vet ween late 2nd aND 6th rounds.