Speculation: Roster Speculation 2017-18 Part 2

[Djp]

Kinda like that idea. I'd tweek it a bit. Add something on the Sabres side to also get the Jackets' first rounder, 24th overall.

Something like:

8OA
Bailey
Sabres' 2nd

for

Murray
24OA

That'd keep Buffalo in the first round with the ability to trade up for Valimaki or Brannstrom.

Of note, I'd only do this if Makar isn't available at 8OA. Sort of keep the trade on the burner but not pull the trigger until Arizona makes their pick. Of course, Columbus would need to play in all of this.

Is this pre or post expansion draft ???

A deal for him pre expansion heeds to factor in the fact buffalo goes from 20 yo 8 skaters thus exposing 2 more forwards.

 

[Jame]

Kinda like that idea. I'd tweek it a bit. Add something on the Sabres side to also get the Jackets' first rounder, 24th overall.

Something like:

8OA
Bailey
Sabres' 2nd

for

Murray
24OA

That'd keep Buffalo in the first round with the ability to trade up for Valimaki or Brannstrom.

Of note, I'd only do this if Makar isn't available at 8OA. Sort of keep the trade on the burner but not pull the trigger until Arizona makes their pick. Of course, Columbus would need to play in all of this.

Seems like a desperation trade.

 

[NotABadPeriod]

I wonder if Botterill looks to grab a D-man from Pittsburgh--they too might look to deal one for expansion draft reasons (Letang, Dumoulin, Maatta, Schultz, Cole) and obviously there's the Pittsburgh connection with Botterill. Additionally, if they go 7-3-1, and wait to re-sign Bonino (or other UFA forward) until after the draft, they'll have a spot open to protect another forward.

Girgensons + ? for Dumoulin.

Dumoulin would make a great partner for Risto.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Seems like a desperation trade.

Would much rather make a run at Brodin, or CDH. I'd also rather develop Makar. But I'd be ok with a Murray trade to solidify the top 4.

Not sure about the value. Throwing something out there to get opinions.

 

[joshjull]

Yeah Calgary and Columbus would probably disagree with you cause they got Hamilton and Seth Jones past 2 years. Most players have a price. There's no such rule as "No one is giving up good long term D". Especially with ED coming up, it's quite likely to see more deals than average made past few years.

To add to the bold. Many are speculating this offseason may be the busiest in NHL history, particularly the time leading up to the expansion draft and then into the regular draft.

 

[joshjull]

I got decent reviews on Reinhart for Murray & Jenner. I don't want to trade Reinhart, but I thought the value was close.

I would try something around Foligno+ for Jack Johnson?

Or something around Nutivaara for Foligno? I know he's not a top pair type (maybe not even a top-4 yet), but he's got good skating ability and was solid.

If you make this trade prior to the expansion draft you just moved out one exempt player (Reinhart) for two you'd have to protect (Jenner/Murry). I would argue you give up the best asset in the deal as well.

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

Yuck. Murray has shown he was a reach at #2. He's simply not a top pairing D.

 

[tsujimoto74]

Yuck. Murray has shown he was a reach at #2. He's simply not a top pairing D.

Way too soon to write him off like that. And you don't need to be a top pairing defenseman to be a good player worth trading for. Murray would fix a crapload of problems on our blue line. The kid is super calm, poised, and positionally sound, and he has decent enough offensive instincts.

 

[Moskau]

Guy ranked 1 or 2 his entire draft season is now considered a reach.

 

[Team Cozens]

Would much rather make a run at Brodin, or CDH. I'd also rather develop Makar. But I'd be ok with a Murray trade to solidify the top 4.

Not sure about the value. Throwing something out there to get opinions.

I've seen these names tossed around. How would you rank them in order?
I honestly have no clue, I just know we need one. Lol

Cam Fowler
Ryan Murray
Tyson Barrie
Travis Harmonic
CDH
Olli Maatta
Jake Muzzin
Jonas Brodin
Noah Hanifin
Karl Alzner

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

Brodin (coincidentally autocorrected to Brodie which, yes)
Muzzin/Hanifin
CDH (due to cost)
Fowler/Murray/Barrie
Hamonic


Maatta/Alzner

 

[Team Cozens]

Brodin (coincidentally autocorrected to Brodie which, yes)
Muzzin/Hanifin
CDH (due to cost)
Fowler/Murray/Barrie
Hamonic


Maatta/Alzner

Thanks for giving me some perspective.... helps me in terms of value and potential trade cost.
Obviously age and contract are other huge factors!

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

Context time:

Brodin is pretty proven in our most-needed roles with a contract situation that captures a minimum of 80% of every comparable's peak.

Muzzin and Hanifin represent the highest immediate positional and potential fits (unless Brodin hits like the top 5% of his potential)

CDH is a generic positive presence at a position of need who projects to cost the least

The next three cost a lot and are unproven relative to our needs, especially if Antipin isn't great and without a Bogosian trade.

Maatta and Alzner have giant potential downsides while providing minimal value. Maybe if we clear out other salary, Maatta is a decent buy-low who's locked in at market, but he could also become an even worse version of the Bogosian contract.

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

Guy ranked 1 or 2 his entire draft season is now considered a reach.

OK let me put it in better words. Underachiever.

Murray has less then three seasons of experience and is turning 24. He gets middle pairing ice time. And people are proposing Reinhart for him? Please. Murray is highly unlikely to ever become a top pairing guy. Hanifin is better then he is already. If I'm trading Reinhart, I want a dman back who projects to be at worst a high end #2. Murray isn't that. Not to mention dude has had numerous severe injuries. I guess Bogosian wasn't enough. Bogo was just as heralded and high a draft pick as Murray, not to mention was just as good if not better at his peak in Atlanta/Winnipeg. No interest in trading for a guy who hasn't lived up to his draft status and misses numerous games a year. Bogo was enough .

And I'll take Alzner all day for free. People acting like he wouldn't be one of our best dmen, please. No assets needed to be moved for him either. Unlike the players on the Sabres he also doesn't miss games. If he can be signed for Bogosian money I gladly sign him for 5-6 years and know that I just added a proven top 4 D for no assets. You got people wanting to trade #8+ or Reinhart for Tanev, so what, he can play 55 games a year? I'll sign Alzner for free, Alzner playing 82 games a year >> Tanev playing 60 at best.

 

[Sabre the Win]

OK let me put it in better words. Underachiever.

Murray has less then three seasons of experience and is turning 24. He gets middle pairing ice time. And people are proposing Reinhart for him? Please. Murray is highly unlikely to ever become a top pairing guy. Hanifin is better then he is already. If I'm trading Reinhart, I want a dman back who projects to be at worst a high end #2. Murray isn't that. Not to mention dude has had numerous severe injuries. I guess Bogosian wasn't enough. Bogo was just as heralded and high a draft pick as Murray, not to mention was just as good if not better at his peak in Atlanta/Winnipeg. No interest in trading for a guy who hasn't lived up to his draft status and misses numerous games a year. Bogo was enough .

And I'll take Alzner all day for free. People acting like he wouldn't be one of our best dmen, please. No assets needed to be moved for him either. Unlike the players on the Sabres he also doesn't miss games. If he can be signed for Bogosian money I gladly sign him for 5-6 years and know that I just added a proven top 4 D for no assets. You got people wanting to trade #8+ or Reinhart for Tanev, so what, he can play 55 games a year? I'll sign Alzner for free, Alzner playing 82 games a year >> Tanev playing 60 at best.

I stopped reading your rant here because not one person suggested trading Reinhart for him.

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

I stopped reading your rant here because not one person suggested trading Reinhart for him.

I got decent reviews on Reinhart for Murray & Jenner. I don't want to trade Reinhart, but I thought the value was close.

Yeah you were saying? Murray is nothing special. Far behind Jonas Brodin who is a much better player, target and actual feasible acquisition. He's a #3-4 dman at best. He has around 220 games of experience. He turns 24 in few months. He isn't magically becoming a top pairing dman when he has shown to be nowhere near that good.

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

Yeah you were saying? Murray is nothing special. Far behind Jonas Brodin who is a much better player, target and actual feasible acquisition. He's a #3-4 dman at best. He has around 220 games of experience. He turns 24 in few months. He isn't magically becoming a top pairing dman when he has shown to be nowhere near that good.

The issue is the better player we want, the better package we have to give up. With a number of teams looking to better their D and minimum decent UFA availability, I doubt we can get Brodin for anything less than Reinhart even if Minny has to add to Brodin for that. Our fanbase seems to not be keen on that scenario. We don't have much else to entice them to give us Brodin when other teams would likely outbid us with NHL ready players if we try to center the trade around 8OA and/or Nylander. While Murray is likely doable for anything around these two assets.

 

[CatsforReinhart]

Guy ranked 1 or 2 his entire draft season is now considered a reach.

And Grigorenko was ranked 2nd best forward. Doesn't mean much once you get to the NHL.

 

[Onslow]

Brodin, Muzzin, CDH would all be good pickups and the Sabres have a realistic chance at acquiring one of them without getting bent.

I'd love Hanifin the most, but idk if I really wanna trade Reinhart for him. Tough call.

Not sure on Murray. He'd fit in well on the 2nd pair I think. What would it cost? I wouldn't do Nylander. 8th + Bailey/Fasching/Baptiste sounds good. Cbus is looking for centers I think though. They'd want Reinhart, and Botts would rightly say no.

 

[ottawah]

Guy ranked 1 or 2 his entire draft season is now considered a reach.

I for one thought he was over exposed, and the truth is that was a terrible draft.

My own draft report card him I remember. Injury prone, offensively limited D who is not over physical, but does not shy away from it. top end was a top pairing who was a defensive presense for a high end D man (i.e. methot via karllson), but likely a second pairing D man.

Thats about what he turned into. He is pushed down the chart a bit in Columbus due to their blue line strength, but he is still a very useful D man. He was never going to put up big points or deliver big hits, but he is a great skating steady D man not prone to mistakes. Take that any day.

 

[CaptPantalones]

I wonder if Botterill looks to grab a D-man from Pittsburgh--they too might look to deal one for expansion draft reasons (Letang, Dumoulin, Maatta, Schultz, Cole) and obviously there's the Pittsburgh connection with Botterill. Additionally, if they go 7-3-1, and wait to re-sign Bonino (or other UFA forward) until after the draft, they'll have a spot open to protect another forward.

Girgensons + ? for Dumoulin.

Dumoulin would make a great partner for Risto.

I'm it's you that I think that is what will happen.

I wouldn't be shocked if one of dumoulin, maata or Cole are here

 

[Chainshot]

I'm worried that it's Maatta given how he's fallen off. He may be the least expensive to acquire too in terms of hockey assets, but man... that contract and his level of play would make me nervous.

 

[Sabreality]

I'm worried that it's Maatta given how he's fallen off. He may be the least expensive to acquire too in terms of hockey assets, but man... that contract and his level of play would make me nervous.

I still think Maatta can be fixed. I'm not sure the Pens 'hail mary' style of hockey is best suited for him, I think he needs to play a little bit more controlled style of possession play (ala the Wild or Sens).

His inconsistency can really be an issue yes, I thought he played a solid 1st in Game 7, then just imploded.

If he doesnt cost as much as others and we miss out on some of those guys, I wouldnt be too upset in taking a look, I know I'm likely in the minority, but he's still only 22.

 

[Der Jaeger]

I'd rather wait till the expansion draft is over to determine if we pick a goalie. I'm all for throwing a deal Vegas' way for Ullmark. If GMJB can get that done, then picking a goalie early isn't that important.

If Ullmark is gone, then picking a goalie gets a relook.

 

[Ace]

Maatta's contract makes him a total non starter to me.

It's horrible given where he is now. You could pair him and Bogo together as a ten million dollar pair who are never healthy and play like ****.