Roster Speculation 2014-2015, Part VII

[Doug Prishpreed]

Does anyone see a line of GIRGS - REINHART - ARMIA going well together? Playing together, the whole line would be able to excel both PP and PP without ever having to split up. That would be really helpful when trying to keep the lines together throughout each game, which can be hard in a game with lots of penalties. First PK group, second PP group.

McEichel could center the first line and Grigorenko's line, 2a/2b, would feast on the easier minutes.

 

[Jame]

When will we stop using ancient terms like 2nd or 3rd line

 

[Paxon]

Does anyone see a line of GIRGS - REINHART - ARMIA going well together? Playing together, the whole line would be able to excel both PP and PP without ever having to split up. That would be really helpful when trying to keep the lines together throughout each game, which can be hard in a game with lots of penalties. First PK group, second PP group.

McEichel could center the first line and Grigorenko's line, 2a/2b, would feast on the easier minutes.

The problem with that line is that the fastest skater is Armia. Theoretically, let's say we get McDavid or Eichel... they might be a better fit with those wingers.

 

[kenfury]

This is where ROR or a similar player is needed. ROR helps in many ways!

Assuming he signs an extension yes. If not it regresses the plan.

 

[Samsonite23]

The problem with that line is that the fastest skater is Armia. Theoretically, let's say we get McDavid or Eichel... they might be a better fit with those wingers.

That Girgs, not Grigs.

 

[Paxon]

That Girgs, not Grigs.

Oops. Nice catch. Yeah, that makes sense then. I do like the idea of Grigorenko + X + Armia where X is a bit faster though.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

When will we stop using ancient terms like 2nd or 3rd line

There's not really a universal alternative terminology yet, and crappy teams and/or coaches still actually roll lines like that, so it's going away, just slowly. We're starting to use things like "1a" and 2b," which seems like a step in the right direction.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Oops. Nice catch. Yeah, that makes sense then. I do like the idea of Grigorenko + X + Armia where X is a bit faster though.

I guess I just like the idea of heaving three guys who are strong on both the PP and PK play on a line together so that you don't have to break them up as much. The Vanek/Pomminville line used to be difficult to keep together at times because Pomm was the only one on the PK. Most teams don't have this luxury since most teams don't have a whole line of guys that are great on both PP and PK.

 

[Paxon]

I guess I just like the idea of heaving three guys who are strong on both the PP and PK play on a line together so that you don't have to break them up as much. The Vanek/Pomminville line used to be difficult to keep together at times because Pomm was the only one on the PK. Most teams don't have this luxury since most teams don't have a whole line of guys that are great on both PP and PK.

Next year is one thing as I could see guys like Armia, Reinhart, and Girgensons on the second unit, but going forward I'd expect Reinhart on the first unit and Girgensons possibly on the 2nd or no unit, and Armia on the 1st or 2nd unit. Reinhart + Girgensons could be a PK combo for a long time but if Girgensons improves on faceoffs I would think the two would wind up on different units to take the draws.

 

[jc17]

There's not really a universal alternative terminology yet, and crappy teams and/or coaches still actually roll lines like that, so it's going away, just slowly. We're starting to use things like "1a" and 2b," which seems like a step in the right direction.

How is that any different.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

How is that any different.

For instance, 2a and 2b play the same number of minutes, just in different types of situations. It has a nuance that just saying 1/2/3 doesn't have.

2b could all play the PP and 2a maybe gets the easier minutes, meaning that they're both still offensive lines. Whereas it's implied that a third line is a defensive shut down line. Not the case with 2a/2b.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Next year is one thing as I could see guys like Armia, Reinhart, and Girgensons on the second unit, but going forward I'd expect Reinhart on the first unit and Girgensons possibly on the 2nd or no unit, and Armia on the 1st or 2nd unit. Reinhart + Girgensons could be a PK combo for a long time but if Girgensons improves on faceoffs I would think the two would wind up on different units to take the draws.

I suppose you're right - Girgensons likely won't play PP after next year (though you never know!), and putting Reinhart and McEcihel together on the first PP unit is probably too tempting to pass up.

 

[joshjull]

When will we stop using ancient terms like 2nd or 3rd line

When they stop existing.

 

[joshjull]

Heavy lifting in the D-zone against top competition.

Basically Bergeron-lite.

That's not a 3rd line role. Bergeron's role is as a top 6 all situations center. You're talking about a traditional 3rd line checking center. Something like Sutter plays in Pittsburgh.

 

[sabrebuild]

If things come through as they project right now there is zero reason to have Girgs play center on a third line. I don't think we need to argue about if that gets him enough minutes or not. I just want him with our best players, and no matter how you call a line, he won't be with those guys if he is not playing with Reinhart or McEichel. Ideally I think you want a team were each line is defensively strong and offensively threatening.
For next year

McEichel Girgs Moulson
Ennis Reinhart Stafford
Foligno Grigorenko Armia
Des McCormick Gionta

And once McEichel is ready to switch Girgs to the wing on that first line. Obviously you plan to improve on the vets you have but basically each line has at least one strong defensive player with offensive skills.

 

[sabrebuild]

Obviously that is young lineup, but until a trade or fa happens, that's what we have.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Heavy lifting in the D-zone against top competition.

Basically Bergeron-lite.

I think Jordan Staal from his Pens days is a better comparison. With all the prospects that the Sabres have, Girgensons would have better wingers than Staal ever had.

I could also see him at wing for Reinhart or McEichel. Then Grigorenko slots as the center behind Reinhart and McEichel. That's not a perfect fit for 2-way centers. But the talent the team has may end up working outside of any current model.

 

[ZeroPT*]

That's not a 3rd line role. Bergeron's role is as a top 6 all situations center. You're talking about a traditional 3rd line checking center. Something like Sutter plays in Pittsburgh.

That's what I'm saying.. There is no 3rd line role

 

[Man of Principles]

Yaaaaawn. Wish there was some juicy news to talk about.

 

[Djp]

I see buffalo eventually have 3 balanced offensive lines and then the 4th line is a regular playing defensive oriented line who also have scoring ability.

The 3 centers would be McEchel, Reinhart, Grigorenko/Girgensons. Or Reinhart, Grigorenko, and Girgensons if buffalo isn't top 2.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

For instance, 2a and 2b play the same number of minutes, just in different types of situations. It has a nuance that just saying 1/2/3 doesn't have.

2b could all play the PP and 2a maybe gets the easier minutes, meaning that they're both still offensive lines. Whereas it's implied that a third line is a defensive shut down line. Not the case with 2a/2b.

they're arbitrary labels that dont do any better job at explaining roles than 1,2,3

 

[Uberpecker]

Top 6 possible first line winger talent is a need, it seems, so what would we give up for Baertschi right now? Pysyk or McCabe seems to be agreed on by Flames posters, I don't like giving them up, though. Our 2nd 2015 or the latest of our first rounders for Baertschi + (keep in mind that there might be a very small difference between the two). What say you?

 

[Old Navy Goat]

Top 6 possible first line winger talent is a need, it seems, so what would we give up for Baertschi right now? Pysyk or McCabe seems to be agreed on by Flames posters, I don't like giving them up, though. Our 2nd 2015 or the latest of our first rounders for Baertschi + (keep in mind that there might be a very small difference between the two). What say you?

What has Baertschi done to warrant the thought that he could be a 1st line winger, right now top 6 seems to be pushing it. He's a tad undersized at 5'11 with a slight build, isn't exactly aggressive or plays physical. His waiver exemption is almost up so he'd be in the same situation as Grigorenko in needing to be put on the team next year or risk being lost to waivers. There's better options out there if you're looking at flipping prospects or giving up picks in the top 2 rounds. I'd much rather see if the Blues would move Berglund or Sobotka for the Isles' 2nd rd pick.

 

[Uberpecker]

What has Baertschi done to warrant the thought that he could be a 1st line winger, right now top 6 seems to be pushing it. He's a tad undersized at 5'11 with a slight build, isn't exactly aggressive or plays physical. His waiver exemption is almost up so he'd be in the same situation as Grigorenko in needing to be put on the team next year or risk being lost to waivers. There's better options out there if you're looking at flipping prospects or giving up picks in the top 2 rounds. I'd much rather see if the Blues would move Berglund or Sobotka for the Isles' 2nd rd pick.

Not a really good argument, 'cause what has any prospect done to justify his potential until he actually justifies it. E.g. what has Armia done prior to this season to warrant his top 6 upside-label. Waiver exemption is an issue, but IIRC, Baertschi does have an edge to his game and the tools are there. Ultimately it's just the question do you think he's gonna be a player or not. Which is obviously a gamble, as is any player you pick up with a late first/early 2nd.

Sobotka and Berglund are interesting, but different types of players. I want to specifically address the first line scoring winger issue (assuming there is one.)

 

[ZeroPT*]

Top 6 possible first line winger talent is a need, it seems, so what would we give up for Baertschi right now? Pysyk or McCabe seems to be agreed on by Flames posters, I don't like giving them up, though. Our 2nd 2015 or the latest of our first rounders for Baertschi + (keep in mind that there might be a very small difference between the two). What say you?

wut..