Roster Speculation – 2015-16 – Part V

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

moving back in to the Roster Speculation thread...

What about:
Ennis (25 yrs old with 4 yrs remaining at 4.6)
for
Kulikov (24 yrs old with 2 yrs remaining at 4.333)

obviously, this deal can't happen because Kulikov is russion...

at some point before his next contract is up, he's going to show a stat bump related to there being actual talent around him, hopefully management will have the foresight to trade him when that happens

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

Who is ready for this guy to unleash his true potential this year?

HYPE!

In all the hype over rookies, he's slid back in people's minds. For now.

If he's healthy, watch out. If he's playing against other third line players, he'll chew them up. The kid is hard and has some nice puck sense. He's got crazy upside

 

[Wisent42]

Maybe this thought has already been exercised here, or in some other thread, so if I'm just repeating it, I'm sorry. Anyway, I was thinking that if the right deal for a top-4 LHD turns up before season starts (á la Islanders last year), maybe we should just wait it out until closer to trade deadline? We're not in a rush, we're not about to turn into a contender just yet. So how about starting the season with what we've got today and see how it plays out? Closer to deadline, there will be a couple of teams who don't pan out as they had hoped that become sellers. Or a contender that needs to make an improvement, but also needs to unload something to gain cap space. Half a season with, let's say, Gorges, Weber, CC and Donovan or McCabe as our LHD-options wouldn't be the worst. At least it can't be worse than dressing Benoit...

 

[stokes84]

moving back in to the Roster Speculation thread...

What about:
Ennis (25 yrs old with 4 yrs remaining at 4.6)
for
Kulikov (24 yrs old with 2 yrs remaining at 4.333)

obviously, this deal can't happen because Kulikov is russion...

I get it, defense for offense. But we shouldn't be in the business of trading away the better player. Ennis > Kulikov.

 

[Jame]

I get it, defense for offense. But we shouldn't be in the business of trading away the better player. Ennis > Kulikov.

I'm not gonna bother with Ennis vs Kulikov, that's a dead end

But your argument highlights the "message board" factor in what you want

"We are unbalanced"
"We have too many forwards"
"We have guys playing below their lines"
"We need a top 4 defensemen"

But

"No, we shouldn't trade a top 6 forward for a top 4 defensemen, we should trade from our bottom 6 for a top 4 defensemen... You know, we'll add a pick/prospect"

If you think the LD hole is so serious that we need to fill it with a real top 4 talent, that fits going forward, then you should be willing to put Ennis on the table. Objectively

 

[Mit Yarrum]

I watch Kulikov a lot down here. I don't think the value is there.

 

[Havok89]

I'm not gonna bother with Ennis vs Kulikov, that's a dead end

But your argument highlights the "message board" factor in what you want

"We are unbalanced"
"We have too many forwards"
"We have guys playing below their lines"
"We need a top 4 defensemen"

But

"No, we shouldn't trade a top 6 forward for a top 4 defensemen, we should trade from our bottom 6 for a top 4 defensemen... You know, we'll add a pick/prospect"

If you think the LD hole is so serious that we need to fill it with a real top 4 talent, that fits going forward, then you should be willing to put Ennis on the table. Objectively

I won't bother with the Ennis vs ... debate but I'd rather aquire a defenseman without trading away a good forward roster player.

 

[Zman5778]

I won't bother with the Ennis vs ... debate but I'd rather aquire a defenseman without trading away a good forward roster player.

Then what kind of defenseman do you expect to get?

The FA pool is more or less dried up.

In a trade, you have to give to get.......

 

[Sabre Dance]

Then what kind of defenseman do you expect to get?

The FA pool is more or less dried up.

In a trade, you have to give to get.......

We have gotten 2nd pair Dmen easily in the past. Seems like people are trying to find a #1 or #2, but I thought we had those guys already.

 

[CaseyMitts37]

Then what kind of defenseman do you expect to get?

The FA pool is more or less dried up.

In a trade, you have to give to get.......

Just wait until the 2016 Draft

We're not contending this year or next year

 

[Zman5778]

Just wait until the 2016 Draft

We're not contending this year or next year

This is my stance. To the letter.

 

[Sabre Dance]

Just wait until the 2016 Draft

We're not contending this year or next year

Drafting a guy wont help for years realistically unless we have a top pick again.

Find a 2nd pairing D that a team doesn't plan to be in their future. These guys get traded all the time. He may be a 28-32 year old guy on the downside of his career, but still a few good years left

 

[sabresandcanucks]

Calgary seems like the trading partner who makes the most sense....It's just trying to put a deal together that both teams can agree too.

 

[CatsforReinhart]

I think the sabres stand pat and wait to see what they have. I could see a trade going down if they are flirting with the playoffs. If they are not then why bother. See what 2016 UFAs are left on the table after all the extensions are signed.

 

[Zman5778]

Find a 2nd pairing D that a team doesn't plan to be in their future.

Murray has more or less said that this is completely opposite to his plan. He's not going for a quick fix that will help him a few extra games now.

If signing Cola and Donovan to help round out the LHD didn't signal that, I'm not sure what else does.

 

[sabresandcanucks]

I wonder what Nashville would want for Ekholm?

 

[Havok89]

Then what kind of defenseman do you expect to get?

The FA pool is more or less dried up.

In a trade, you have to give to get.......

I don't expect us to land a really good LHD like some are expecting. This team is too young and needs time to gel, I don't think we're a playoff team either way.

 

[Jame]

Then what kind of defenseman do you expect to get?

The FA pool is more or less dried up.

In a trade, you have to give to get.......

That's my point

If we aren't trading anything of value, we aren't really going to upgrade what we already have in Carlo, Weber, Pysyk, McCabe, Gorges

I understand the perception will be different... The guy we trade a 2nd for will automatically be viewed as better than the guy we signed for 900k.

The reality is that if you REALLY want to acquire someone that would truly make a difference, than you need to be willing to part with a good top 6 asset like Ennis or Girgensons.

 

[Jame]

I won't bother with the Ennis vs ... debate but I'd rather aquire a defenseman without trading away a good forward roster player.

What you'd rather do just seems unrealistic to me

I'd rather add a core top 4 defensemen at the cost of a good top 6 forward, than add another depth defensemen for a bottom 6 forward

I'd also rather do nothing, than add another depth defensemen for a bottom 6 forward. Because ultimately we may need to still trade for that core top 4 defensemen, and it will still cost the top 6 forward, so depleting depth at forward now would be a hinderance later

 

[tsujimoto74]

What you'd rather do just seems unrealistic to me

I'd rather add a core top 4 defensemen at the cost of a good top 6 forward, than add another depth defensemen for a bottom 6 forward

I'd also rather do nothing, than add another depth defensemen for a bottom 6 forward. Because ultimately we may need to still trade for that core top 4 defensemen, and it will still cost the top 6 forward, so depleting depth at forward now would be a hinderance later

Right now? Perhaps, but give it time. Quality young players can shake loose because of depth and cap issues, where the team needs to take back picks/prospects to clear space. Or established prime-aged guys might become available for picks from a team that decides it needs to rebuild, or just has a problem with mismatched personalities in their locker room. And sometimes GMs just flat-out undervalue their own guys and make bad trades. We can afford to wait for a scenario like that to present itself. If it doesn't, and we also aren't able to land a good D via UFA in the next year or two, then I'd be very ready and willing to look at a quality-for-quality deal where we ship out a good forward for a good defenseman. Because, at that point, we need to finish shaping up the roster to get the team where we want it to be. Until that point though, I just don't think we need to rush into giving up good assets for a D. We're not contending next season either way. I'd rather wait and see if we can fill the hole cheaper later than paying more to do it now.

 

[WeDislikeEich]

Just wait until the 2016 Draft

We're not contending this year or next year

This is exactly how I feel. I wanted Oduya because I thought he'd be a perfect guy to bridge the gap for a few years. But now that is is signed with Dallas, I'd rather just go into the season with who we have (unless we can pick up a guy somewhat cheap in trade (a draft pick or 2)).
I would honestly rather see what Donovan and Ruhwedel can do than sign Franson or trade away a guy like Ennis or Larsson. I want to see what those guys can do with some actual talent around them and competent coaches on the bench.
Tim Murray made some great moves this offseason, but we are still a team on the rebuild. Another top 10 pick would be great. The 2016 draft has some real good looking D prospects and we should be able to land one of the top 3 defenseman in the draft if we pick top 10. It would fill the hole Zadorov left without having to sacrifice any more of our talented players. We need to see how guys like Ennis mesh with this new team. We can always make more trades in a year or two when we see what we actually have in some of these young guys (and we know who does and doesn't fit this team).

 

[NEcoli]

That's my point

If we aren't trading anything of value, we aren't really going to upgrade what we already have in Carlo, Weber, Pysyk, McCabe, Gorges

I understand the perception will be different... The guy we trade a 2nd for will automatically be viewed as better than the guy we signed for 900k.

The reality is that if you REALLY want to acquire someone that would truly make a difference, than you need to be willing to part with a good top 6 asset like Ennis or Girgensons.

The Islanders got 2 quality defensemen last year for picks and prospects. It's not impossible. Particularly with so many teams up against the cap.

 

[Havok89]

What you'd rather do just seems unrealistic to me

I'd rather add a core top 4 defensemen at the cost of a good top 6 forward, than add another depth defensemen for a bottom 6 forward

I'd also rather do nothing, than add another depth defensemen for a bottom 6 forward. Because ultimately we may need to still trade for that core top 4 defensemen, and it will still cost the top 6 forward, so depleting depth at forward now would be a hinderance later

I guess I don't view Kulikov as a core defenseman. If you find a good, young, core LHD who can make an impact this season ill pony up a lot more than Ennis.

 

[Sabre Dance]

Murray has more or less said that this is completely opposite to his plan. He's not going for a quick fix that will help him a few extra games now.

If signing Cola and Donovan to help round out the LHD didn't signal that, I'm not sure what else does.

That's exactly what we have tried to sign. Low key 2nd pairing types.

Why wouldn't he trade a couple 2nds for 1 or a couple middle prospects?

 

[Jame]

I guess I don't view Kulikov as a core defenseman. If you find a good, young, core LHD who can make an impact this season ill pony up a lot more than Ennis.

On the ice, I think Kulikov could be a good, core, 2nd pair guy. I'm not sure what the deal is with his off ice stuff (or even if there is any, I vaguely remember something about a falling out in Florida which was the main reason for the trade post from my POV)

I don't think a defensemen better than Kulikov is hitting the trade market. Who is trading top young defensemen?