Salary Cap: Roster going forward (Or: How the cap is coming to kill us)

[Rschmitz]

I would say tanner richard and adam erne! yes erne needs to be top nine! all I know is jt brown will have his last season in tampa next year. Vladdy has to be on the nhl roster next year we won't put him on waivers. I'd expect drouin and erne to start in the ahl next year. But come december I really think those two make there way to tampa's roster. I'd like yzerman to sign glencross next year and dump morrow.

I don't see Brown going anywhere with that chap contract of his. They'll need a few serviceable guys to balance out the more expensive contracts.

 

[Todd1a]

Cap won't be an issue until the Summer of 2017. In a worst case scenario, Garrison and Filppula could be dealt and Coburn could be allowed to walk. Hopefully a Carle deal nips that in the bud.

my gut says stevie keeps this team together for a run again next year. but dumping carles money might be worth it in the long run.

 

[CarpeNoctem]

my gut says stevie keeps this team together for a run again next year. but dumping carles money might be worth it in the long run.

Sending Carle off and putting Nes-Tea in his place is an upgrade, even if Nesterov looks only half as good next season. Let's call a spade a spade.

 

[garmonbozia]

This thread should be merged with the "Salary Cap: Tampa Bay Lightning" one from January here;

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1810459&highlight=

That one has most of the relevant info save the change from Gudas and Connolly to Coburn.

I hold to the same thinking now as then that any and/or all of Bishop, Coburn, Cally, Carle, Filppula, Garrison, or Stralman will be moved long before we're "forced" into moving ANY of our more talented younger core members. We shouldn't need to lose all of the vets. Which ones remain beyond the gigantic looming 2017 offseason will be flexibly determined by their play up to that point, as well their value and leaguewide interest in potential trades leading up to that point.

I don't worry about losing Stamkos, Hedman, Kucherov, Johnson, Palat, or anybody else able to solidify core positions between now and then. If they're worth keeping at a fair rate, Yzerman will find a way to keep them. If he continues drafting and developing as well as we have so far, the current depth will remain as we shed the higher priced vets.

TLDR: We'll be fine (Or: How the Cap is NOT Coming to Kill Us)

dun dun DUNNNNNNN

 

[HoseEmDown]

I would say tanner richard and adam erne! yes erne needs to be top nine! all I know is jt brown will have his last season in tampa next year. Vladdy has to be on the nhl roster next year we won't put him on waivers. I'd expect drouin and erne to start in the ahl next year. But come december I really think those two make there way to tampa's roster. I'd like yzerman to sign glencross next year and dump morrow.

Richard needs to continue to improve, he wasn't very good last year but bounced back this. He still isn't pushing for an NHL job yet, another good season in the A he may get more a look, not sure his defensive game will be what Cooper wants. Erne needs defensive help too, he looks disinterested and lazy in the memorial cup.

Vladdy will most likely be on the 3rd line with Paquette hopefully going back to the 4th. He'll be traded before waivers, maybe Filpulla stays on the top line and he gets a shot at 3C. You do know Glencross isn't really a 4th liner and definitely won't be cheap. No need to pay him what he'll want to be a fringe 3rd liner. We don't need a veteran presence anymore.

 

[LTIR Trickery]

Richard needs to continue to improve, he wasn't very good last year but bounced back this. He still isn't pushing for an NHL job yet, another good season in the A he may get more a look, not sure his defensive game will be what Cooper wants. Erne needs defensive help too, he looks disinterested and lazy in the memorial cup.

Vladdy will most likely be on the 3rd line with Paquette hopefully going back to the 4th. He'll be traded before waivers, maybe Filpulla stays on the top line and he gets a shot at 3C. You do know Glencross isn't really a 4th liner and definitely won't be cheap. No need to pay him what he'll want to be a fringe 3rd liner. We don't need a veteran presence anymore.

That might be the strangest forward layout i've read.

 

[Werewolf]

So I did the breakdown for the defense at $26.1 Million. Now continuation on that for the forwards.

Don't expect any changes for 2015-16 Season. So we might still be taking a look at the same playoff lineup to start the new season. We have no idea what Cooper is going to do with the lines so this is not the debate here just the roster spots.

Palat / Johnson / Kucherov ($7.3M)
Killorn / Filppula / Stamkos ($15M)
Drouin / Namestnikov / Callahan ($9.85M)
Paquette / Boyle / Brown ($3.58M)
Marchessault ($1M)

*Out in 2015-16 - Morrow @ $1.5M
*In in 2015-16 - Namestnikov @ $850k (has to be on the roster or waivers)
*In in 2015-16 - Drouin @ $3.2M (incentives/bonus + Base Salary) too good for AHL
*In in 2015-16 - Marchessault @ $1M (RFA done with development & PPG in AHL)

This is a $36.7M Forward Group for 2015-16.

For 2016-17 we will have the following "decisions" to make: Stamkos (UFA), Killorn (RFA), Brown (RFA), Kucherov (RFA), Paquette (RFA).

So our forward lines may still look pretty much the same way except some raises are due:

Stamkos ($10.5M from $7.5 UFA), Killorn ($3.3 from $2.5 RFA), Brown ($1.5 from $950k RFA), Kucherov ($3.3 from $711k RFA), Paquette ($1.2 from $633k). So now we are looking at a forward lineup that will cost: $44.1M.

For 2017-18 we will have the following decisions to make: Palat (RFA), Johnson (RFA), Boyle (UFA), Drouin (RFA).

If our forward line still look pretty much the same way except the raises then we could be looking at: Palat ($5.5M from $3.3M RFA), Johnson ($5.5M from $3.3M RFA), Boyle ($3M from $2M UFA), Drouin ($4M from $3.1M RFA). So now we are pretty much looking at forward group that costs: $50M

So we are now at $50M (Forwards) and $26M (defenseman) to keep basically the same band together including Callahan/Filppula/Coburn/Garrison and all the vets from this team that will probably still not be in decline.

Now Bishop is a UFA going into this season as well with a $6M tag. So we are looking at a roster that is probably in the neighborhood of: $82M but we have two off-seasons between now and then until we get there. We are going to have to make some cuts based on the new CAP numbers - who knows how much fat we have to cut. But something is certain...we can afford the entire core.

 

[RDTBay4]

Dump the bum Drouin for picks.

 

[IdealisticSniper]

So I did the breakdown for the defense at $26.1 Million. Now continuation on that for the forwards.

Don't expect any changes for 2015-16 Season. So we might still be taking a look at the same playoff lineup to start the new season. We have no idea what Cooper is going to do with the lines so this is not the debate here just the roster spots.

Palat / Johnson / Kucherov ($7.3M)
Killorn / Filppula / Stamkos ($15M)
Drouin / Namestnikov / Callahan ($9.85M)
Paquette / Boyle / Brown ($3.58M)
Marchessault ($1M)

*Out in 2015-16 - Morrow @ $1.5M
*In in 2015-16 - Namestnikov @ $850k (has to be on the roster or waivers)
*In in 2015-16 - Drouin @ $3.2M (incentives/bonus + Base Salary) too good for AHL
*In in 2015-16 - Marchessault @ $1M (RFA done with development & PPG in AHL)

This is a $36.7M Forward Group for 2015-16.

For 2016-17 we will have the following "decisions" to make: Stamkos (UFA), Killorn (RFA), Brown (RFA), Kucherov (RFA), Paquette (RFA).

So our forward lines may still look pretty much the same way except some raises are due:

Stamkos ($10.5M from $7.5 UFA), Killorn ($3.3 from $2.5 RFA), Brown ($1.5 from $950k RFA), Kucherov ($3.3 from $711k RFA), Paquette ($1.2 from $633k). So now we are looking at a forward lineup that will cost: $44.1M.

For 2017-18 we will have the following decisions to make: Palat (RFA), Johnson (RFA), Boyle (UFA), Drouin (RFA).

If our forward line still look pretty much the same way except the raises then we could be looking at: Palat ($5.5M from $3.3M RFA), Johnson ($5.5M from $3.3M RFA), Boyle ($3M from $2M UFA), Drouin ($4M from $3.1M RFA). So now we are pretty much looking at forward group that costs: $50M

So we are now at $50M (Forwards) and $26M (defenseman) to keep basically the same band together including Callahan/Filppula/Coburn/Garrison and all the vets from this team that will probably still not be in decline.

Now Bishop is a UFA going into this season as well with a $6M tag. So we are looking at a roster that is probably in the neighborhood of: $82M but we have two off-seasons between now and then until we get there. We are going to have to make some cuts based on the new CAP numbers - who knows how much fat we have to cut. But something is certain...we can afford the entire core.

Just a quick glance but no way are Brown or Paquette getting that type of raise. Both will get the standard 10% required, maybe a little more. Also I foresee Kucherov getting a bigger cap hit but a longer contract. Say like 4.5 for 5 years.

 

[BoltSTH]

I can see Toronto making a big push to try to get Stammer. It would have to be a huge offer (multiple 1st + 1 or 2 blue chip prospects). I am a big fan of Stammer, and he is the captain (already had 3 in 3 years), but the team comes first.

 

[2020 Cup Champions]

Just a quick glance but no way are Brown or Paquette getting that type of raise. Both will get the standard 10% required, maybe a little more. Also I foresee Kucherov getting a bigger cap hit but a longer contract. Say like 4.5 for 5 years.

Agree big time.

EDIT: Also, what are the requirements for the bonus on Drouin's contract? Is that some kind of standard ELC thingie?

 

[DFC]

So I did the breakdown for the defense at $26.1 Million. Now continuation on that for the forwards.

Don't expect any changes for 2015-16 Season. So we might still be taking a look at the same playoff lineup to start the new season. We have no idea what Cooper is going to do with the lines so this is not the debate here just the roster spots.

Palat / Johnson / Kucherov ($7.3M)
Killorn / Filppula / Stamkos ($15M)
Drouin / Namestnikov / Callahan ($9.85M)
Paquette / Boyle / Brown ($3.58M)
Marchessault ($1M)

*Out in 2015-16 - Morrow @ $1.5M
*In in 2015-16 - Namestnikov @ $850k (has to be on the roster or waivers)
*In in 2015-16 - Drouin @ $3.2M (incentives/bonus + Base Salary) too good for AHL
*In in 2015-16 - Marchessault @ $1M (RFA done with development & PPG in AHL)

This is a $36.7M Forward Group for 2015-16.

For 2016-17 we will have the following "decisions" to make: Stamkos (UFA), Killorn (RFA), Brown (RFA), Kucherov (RFA), Paquette (RFA).

So our forward lines may still look pretty much the same way except some raises are due:

Stamkos ($10.5M from $7.5 UFA), Killorn ($3.3 from $2.5 RFA), Brown ($1.5 from $950k RFA), Kucherov ($3.3 from $711k RFA), Paquette ($1.2 from $633k). So now we are looking at a forward lineup that will cost: $44.1M.

For 2017-18 we will have the following decisions to make: Palat (RFA), Johnson (RFA), Boyle (UFA), Drouin (RFA).

If our forward line still look pretty much the same way except the raises then we could be looking at: Palat ($5.5M from $3.3M RFA), Johnson ($5.5M from $3.3M RFA), Boyle ($3M from $2M UFA), Drouin ($4M from $3.1M RFA). So now we are pretty much looking at forward group that costs: $50M

So we are now at $50M (Forwards) and $26M (defenseman) to keep basically the same band together including Callahan/Filppula/Coburn/Garrison and all the vets from this team that will probably still not be in decline.

Now Bishop is a UFA going into this season as well with a $6M tag. So we are looking at a roster that is probably in the neighborhood of: $82M but we have two off-seasons between now and then until we get there. We are going to have to make some cuts based on the new CAP numbers - who knows how much fat we have to cut. But something is certain...we can afford the entire core.

TKO are all getting significantly more $ than what's listed here.

We'll be buying UFA years on Johnson and Palat. That won't be cheap.

Does anyone not think Kucherov won't be at least as good as he was this year moving forward? If he is, $3.3 is pretty much insulting. He's more accomplished right now than either TJ or Palat were when we signed them to $3.3, and he has another year to add to that.

 

[dbieon12]

So I did the breakdown for the defense at $26.1 Million. Now continuation on that for the forwards.

Don't expect any changes for 2015-16 Season. So we might still be taking a look at the same playoff lineup to start the new season. We have no idea what Cooper is going to do with the lines so this is not the debate here just the roster spots.

Palat / Johnson / Kucherov ($7.3M)
Killorn / Filppula / Stamkos ($15M)
Drouin / Namestnikov / Callahan ($9.85M)
Paquette / Boyle / Brown ($3.58M)
Marchessault ($1M)

*Out in 2015-16 - Morrow @ $1.5M
*In in 2015-16 - Namestnikov @ $850k (has to be on the roster or waivers)
*In in 2015-16 - Drouin @ $3.2M (incentives/bonus + Base Salary) too good for AHL
*In in 2015-16 - Marchessault @ $1M (RFA done with development & PPG in AHL)

This is a $36.7M Forward Group for 2015-16.

For 2016-17 we will have the following "decisions" to make: Stamkos (UFA), Killorn (RFA), Brown (RFA), Kucherov (RFA), Paquette (RFA).

So our forward lines may still look pretty much the same way except some raises are due:

Stamkos ($10.5M from $7.5 UFA), Killorn ($3.3 from $2.5 RFA), Brown ($1.5 from $950k RFA), Kucherov ($3.3 from $711k RFA), Paquette ($1.2 from $633k). So now we are looking at a forward lineup that will cost: $44.1M.

For 2017-18 we will have the following decisions to make: Palat (RFA), Johnson (RFA), Boyle (UFA), Drouin (RFA).

If our forward line still look pretty much the same way except the raises then we could be looking at: Palat ($5.5M from $3.3M RFA), Johnson ($5.5M from $3.3M RFA), Boyle ($3M from $2M UFA), Drouin ($4M from $3.1M RFA). So now we are pretty much looking at forward group that costs: $50M

So we are now at $50M (Forwards) and $26M (defenseman) to keep basically the same band together including Callahan/Filppula/Coburn/Garrison and all the vets from this team that will probably still not be in decline.

Now Bishop is a UFA going into this season as well with a $6M tag. So we are looking at a roster that is probably in the neighborhood of: $82M but we have two off-seasons between now and then until we get there. We are going to have to make some cuts based on the new CAP numbers - who knows how much fat we have to cut. But something is certain...we can afford the entire core.

Kucherov getting 3.3 the year after Drouin gets 3.1 is ludicrous. Stamkos' number could be low now that he's stepping up.

Even recognizing it's a bad contract, Johnson and Palat taking 5.5 which is less than Callahan's 5.8 is also a little bizarre.

If anyone can pull it off, though, it's Yzerman.

 

[Cigar City]

It's simple. If they all WANT to stay here, we will keep them. If they want their payday, they will go somewhere else.

I honestly see the core taking discounts on their next contracts for a few more runs, then bailing when they get to UFA for absurd amounts of money.

 

[DFC]

It's simple. If they all WANT to stay here, we will keep them. If they want their payday, they will go somewhere else.

I honestly see the core taking discounts on their next contracts for a few more runs, then bailing when they get to UFA for absurd amounts of money.

Discounts, sure. But we can't be shaving multi millions off them and expect them to stay. We have to keep their salaries somewhat in line with their comparables. There's just 0 chance Palat and Johnson sign for less than Ryan Callahan. They'll be older RFAs. We'll be paying for their prime years.

 

[The Gongshow]

TKO will all be making much more then 4-5 atlas 6 and its well deserved. Stamkos has been playing great lately and is hopefully back to the way he should be and will probably get atleast 9.5 (2 million raise, I think its fair saves us about 1.5 million too) Hedman will stay and probably get anything from 6-7 (he only makes 4 right now which is an absolute steal but that was before he broke out as the beast he is now)

Our core (TKO + Stamkos + Hedman) will be around for a long time. I'd keep Coburn, Stralman, Garrison for a while too, soon ad Koekkoe and DeAngelo and our D will be top 5 in the league. Keep Killorn for another few years, get Drouin some actual ice time and watch him shine too, it will be great!

 

[Werewolf]

If you disagree put the number you have in mind up there. Or else your contribution is worthless.

 

[Werewolf]

Remember folks Callahan signed as UFA at 29 yrs old - thats the pay day contract. Palat and Johnson are still RFAs at the end of their current contracts plus hometown discount to stay here. Take those factors into consideration and put your cap hit plus any other criteria worth consideration.

 

[HoseEmDown]

Werewolf I won't quote your post since it's long and has been done several times already. But what you said just makes dumping Callahan sound even better. You still have him as the 2nd highest paid player 3 years down the line. He's already being outproduced by 5 players and will most likely be by 2 or 3 more in that time. You can't have your 2nd highest paid not producing, leadership and other intangibles are nice but production is what really counts.

 

[HoseEmDown]

That might be the strangest forward layout i've read.

Why do you say that?

Killorn - Stamkos - Callahan
Palat - Johnson - Kucherov
Paquette - Filpulla - Drouin
Namestnikov - Boyle - Brown
Marchessault

Killorn - Filpulla - Stamkos
Palat - Johnson - Kucherov
Drouin - Namestnikov - Callahan
Paquette - Boyle - Brown
Marchessault

I like option 2 with Callahan on the 3rd and Paquette the 4th. Namestnikov looks awful in the playoffs but was alright playing center late in the season.

 

[DFC]

Remember folks Callahan signed as UFA at 29 yrs old - thats the pay day contract. Palat and Johnson are still RFAs at the end of their current contracts plus hometown discount to stay here. Take those factors into consideration and put your cap hit plus any other criteria worth consideration.

Palat and Johnson are going to be old RFAs though. So it's quite similar to being a UFA, except there's a longer time limit on negotiations. But they're not going to sign contracts that take them into their 30s without getting PAID, because, like Callahan's contract, this is their Pay Day contract coming up. They'll be 26/27. After this contract, this upcoming contract, they could very well be on the downsides of their careers. They'll also have two more years under their belts and there are no signs that those years will be any less successful than this one.

I think they'll each get in the neighborhood of $7m, maybe $7.5, for roughly five years.

Kucherov will be a bit lower because he's a younger RFA, and this contract won't eat up too much of his prime. Maybe $5m or $5.5mx4.

 

[Werewolf]

Werewolf I won't quote your post since it's long and has been done several times already. But what you said just makes dumping Callahan sound even better. You still have him as the 2nd highest paid player 3 years down the line. He's already being outproduced by 5 players and will most likely be by 2 or 3 more in that time. You can't have your 2nd highest paid not producing, leadership and other intangibles are nice but production is what really counts.

My ideal scenario would be without Callahan at $5.8M. I just put up there what I think that CAP would be should everyone on the team get their contracts. It is not an assumption of what my team would look like...it is a starting point or template that everyone can use to create their ideal lineup. Any ideal scenario, of course, would need to start with what you think the CAP would be and then fill in the pieces.

 

[geoo9]

Just a quick glance but no way are Brown or Paquette getting that type of raise. Both will get the standard 10% required, maybe a little more. Also I foresee Kucherov getting a bigger cap hit but a longer contract. Say like 4.5 for 5 years.

I hope Triplets Line all must give similar payment - 3?5-4 mil for 4-5 years. They realizes -that must be best way to improve the team

 

[Sky04]

If Stamkos is getting 10m+, each of TKO is getting at least 6m, Kucherov may have a bridge deal for a couple years but he'll be getting the same as Palat and Johnson afterwards.

 

[dbieon12]

I agree with Werewolf and my post is buried in the earlier thread but the main differences is:
Stamkos 9.5-12M/year
Kucherov 4.0M/year
Nesterov 2.0M/year

Johnson 6.5M/year (if he improves, this is a discount)
Palat 6.5M/year (but I could see him go lower than Johnson next time around)
Hedman 7.5M/year