Line Combos: Roster Discussion/Line Combos

[koteka]

Maybe he's wrong, but he's on the record about why he has this approach. And you don't need a team with a lame duck GM or injured President to have an agreement with the coach to follow a certain path with prospects. It's not even an unusual path.

But why does a last minute rookie coach get the power to decide on player usage for a team out of playoffs? At some point somebody needs to step in and say, “Why aren’t you playing Voronkov more?” My uncharitable assumption is the people in the front office are all updating their resumes and reaching out to contacts looking for other jobs rather than challenging Vincent on player usage. “I could go into the staff meeting and raise an issue about playing Boone 23 minutes per night or I could just keep my mouth shut and wait for my buddy in the Kings organization to get back to me on potential jobs.”

 

[Xoggz22]

Brindley is better than some of the guys on our roster, right now; and 100 percent a line driver.

If it takes that long I will be disappointed.

I agree he's better than some in the lineup currently, but expectng him to be a line driver in the NHL immediately is ludicrous. A year in the AHL, a year in the NHL and then maybe he starts to make an impact. Again, my opinion. I'm tired of counting on 20 year olds to make a difference in the toughest league in the world. It's rare for a first round pick let alone a 2nd rounder. Just my opinion and I would love it if you are right and he stays making a difference sooner. I don't expect it, nor will I be disappointed if it takes 3 years.

 

[koteka]

I've taught college off and on for many years and it just comes to mind now that there are a few similarities. You can't teach someone harder concepts if they have a weakness in their basics. You'll have to teach them the whole thing over and over again and it wastes their time. Nail the basics and then go to the next step.

I have taught college as well. Sometimes you have a smart kid who can coast on his brains at one level and he expresses a desire to get a graduate degree. And sometimes you need to show him what it’s like in the deep end of the pool so he can either revise his expectations or revise his work habits. Show them what they are aiming for and then they’ll hopefully see how much work they need to put in on the basics. Sometimes just saying “you aren’t ready for that yet” sounds condescending and builds resentments, even if it may be true.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

Ideally it should be very incremental. You show you can handle sheltered minutes well, then let's add an extra shift or two. Then you add more d-zone starts, then more minutes against top lines.

Sillinger and Fantilli are already playing about 16 minutes a night, which is in line with their results so far. I think that's fine. They'll gradually get better at it and earn more (perhaps that is what Sillinger is doing now with his current impressive run). The one guy where I don't get it is Voronkov, he's playing 13 minutes despite great results at both ends. He's obviously ready for much harder duties.

You can think of Sillinger last year as a cautionary example - he was so overburdened that he lost confidence and it just made the situation worse and worse. Maybe some lessons learned from him but I think also a lot of lost development time there.

I've taught college off and on for many years and it just comes to mind now that there are a few similarities. You can't teach someone harder concepts if they have a weakness in their basics. You'll have to teach them the whole thing over and over again and it wastes their time. Nail the basics and then go to the next step.

** If a guy is only playing 10 minutes a night then that is a very different situation - that's a player not getting enough reps on the basics. But I'm talking about the development process here for Voronkov, Fantilli, and Sillinger, who are all getting a lot more than that.

As someone who teaches music to high school level kids in my free time I agree. Where the CBJ has ultimately failed is by rushing people to the NHL level who aren't ready for those basic skills. Sillinger was probably rushed his first year in hindsight and we seem to be lucky his development has caught up while not being totally destroyed last season.

I heard Jody mention last night thqt Voronkov take short shifts. Is that because his conditioning is still poor for an NHL workload? He has certainly earned the right for more time. I just seem to ge frustrated when they can't decide where a prospect should be.

Jiricek is the example with how he's been jerked around. I'll compare him to Simon Nemec in NJ. The Devils absolutely held him in the AHL until they couldn't do it anymore and had to bring him up. On the flip side of that, Luke Hughes is a defensive train wreck and was brought straight into the lineup this year to learn on the job because he has great offensive skills. We'll see how each of them benefit or suffer from those 2 approaches in the long term.

 

[CBJx614]

I agree he's better than some in the lineup currently, but expectng him to be a line driver in the NHL immediately is ludicrous. A year in the AHL, a year in the NHL and then maybe he starts to make an impact. Again, my opinion. I'm tired of counting on 20 year olds to make a difference in the toughest league in the world. It's rare for a first round pick let alone a 2nd rounder. Just my opinion and I would love it if you are right and he stays making a difference sooner. I don't expect it, nor will I be disappointed if it takes 3 years.

Not just that, but going from 30-40ish games(including playoffs) a season up to 80+ is MASSIVE increase in ice time over just one season. Its doubtful that he'd be able to maintain a super high level of play against quality opponents over a full season without a dip in performance, which isn't what you want. Send him to Cleveland and make him earn the NHL time.

But another year in Michigan(especially if so many key guys are coming back) won't hurt.

 

[koteka]

I heard Jody mention last night thqt Voronkov take short shifts. Is that because his conditioning is still poor for an NHL workload? He has certainly earned the right for more time. I just seem to ge frustrated when they can't decide where a prospect should be.

Vincent made a comment one time that the Russian line (back when they played together) was the only line that got off the ice when they should and that impacted their ice time. I thought it was a weird comment and didn’t reflect well on Vincent. But maybe they want the guys to take shorter shifts.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

I heard Jody mention last night thqt Voronkov take short shifts. Is that because his conditioning is still poor for an NHL workload? He has certainly earned the right for more time. I just seem to ge frustrated when they can't decide where a prospect should be.

i wouldn't be shocked at all if voronkov came into next season 15-20 pounds lighter. seems like 215-225 is probably a better weight for someone who's 6'5, especially if they want to play a pace-heavy system.

Jiricek is the example with how he's been jerked around. I'll compare him to Simon Nemec in NJ. The Devils absolutely held him in the AHL until they couldn't do it anymore and had to bring him up. On the flip side of that, Luke Hughes is a defensive train wreck and was brought straight into the lineup this year to learn on the job because he has great offensive skills. We'll see how each of them benefit or suffer from those 2 approaches in the long term.

the devils also purposely deployed nemec to maximize his skills (power play time, good partners, offensive-focused minutes) while the jackets have done the opposite with jiricek. granted the devils also did similar things with hughes, who struggled.

sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, but we'll never know if jiricek would have been more effective/confident in a more skill-appropriate role in the NHL this season because pascal vincent was too cowardly to put the big, skilled defenseman with a booming shot on either power play unit.

 

[Cowumbus]

Not sure how credible.

 

[cslebn]

Vincent made a comment one time that the Russian line (back when they played together) was the only line that got off the ice when they should and that impacted their ice time. I thought it was a weird comment and didn’t reflect well on Vincent. But maybe they want the guys to take shorter shifts.

I feel like watching games. Voronkov was almost always the first off the ice on that line and Marchenko was always last.

I've often wondered if that had to do with previous coaching or just conditioning with this being Voronkov's first season over here.

 

[koteka]

This is once again making rather bold uncharitable assumptions. You can't help yourself, it just never ends.

Putting on my “maybe the front office knows what it is doing” tin foil hat and doing some wild speculating based on seeing today’s rumor, maybe they know Voronkov isn’t coming back next year so they aren’t playing him much. But that doesn’t make me feel very good.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Not sure how credible.

Hasn’t this rumor already been confirmed by the club? That they were trying to get him back

Doesn’t mean he’s signed it or he is going back.

 

[koteka]

Let the speculation begin

Columbus Blue Jackets forward Patrik Laine lists Miranova condo for $2.75 million

Columbus Blue Jacket Patrik Laine lists his condominium in Downtown's Miranova tower.

www.dispatch.com

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Let the speculation begin

Columbus Blue Jackets forward Patrik Laine lists Miranova condo for $2.75 million

Columbus Blue Jacket Patrik Laine lists his condominium in Downtown's Miranova tower.

www.dispatch.com

I speculate that he's buying a house. Or that he found out in the PAP that his true calling is to be a Solid Gold Dancer and that he's leaving hockey behind.

In all seriousness, I hope his time away from the team this season had something to do with his reaction/overall mindset to his father's passing a few years ago and not anything that has long term implications.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

Hasn’t this rumor already been confirmed by the club? That they were trying to get him back

Doesn’t mean he’s signed it or he is going back.

We heard it back in the fall. We haven't heard it in April.

I honestly wouldn't be shocked. if I was homesick after an entire year on a dysfunctional team, I could see wanting out too.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

Let the speculation begin

Columbus Blue Jackets forward Patrik Laine lists Miranova condo for $2.75 million

Columbus Blue Jacket Patrik Laine lists his condominium in Downtown's Miranova tower.

www.dispatch.com

Here is the real question. Let's just say he's done with hockey, wants to leave Columbus to go back to Finland and not play anymore. Under auspice of the assistance program, are we on the hook for his salary against the cap for an 8.7 cap hit for the next 2 years?

It's like LTIR but without the cap relief. Is there a point where insurance takes over the salary and some sort of relief could be negotiated? All the best to Patrik but 8.7 million in dead cap space for that long it is a real hinderance to the future of the organization.

I don't see a situation like what was handled with Texier by tolling the contract a year to go play in France is an option.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Here is the real question. Let's just say he's done with hockey, wants to leave Columbus to go back to Finland and not play anymore. Under auspice of the assistance program, are we on the hook for his salary against the cap for an 8.7 cap hit for the next 2 years?

It's like LTIR but without the cap relief. Is there a point where insurance takes over the salary and some sort of relief could be negotiated? All the best to Patrik but 8.7 million in dead cap space for that long it is a real hinderance to the future of the organization.

I don't see a situation like what was handled with Texier by tolling the contract a year to go play in France is an option.

I believe if he’s still in the PA program he would not count against the cap. I believe he is paid from the league.

If he’s out of the program and just wants to not play anymore we would “suspend” him and he’d probably not get paid and not count against the cap. Which is what we did to Texier when he left for France.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

 

[Marioesque]

Oh my that's awful. All the Best to Boone and his family

 

[Cujorulesdtown9]

Theres so much news today.
First and foremost, deepest sympathies to the Jenner family, that is so awful.

2nd, if that listing does indicate Laine is done, the way things have sounded, would not be shocked, his health and happiness are the top priority, hockey or no hockey.

3rd, Voronkov almost left once, after this year, if he decided to go home, it would not be a surprise, as well.

 

[Monstershockey]

Wow. I am lost for words. Just terrible.

 

[VT]

Not sure how credible.

It is right. Ak Bars needs him and its GM said they are trying to return him back. Also don't forget Dima is a home type, he might prefer to play in the KHL just to be at home.

https://sport.business-gazeta.ru/news/293233

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

I believe if he’s still in the PA program he would not count against the cap. I believe he is paid from the league.

If he’s out of the program and just wants to not play anymore we would “suspend” him and he’d probably not get paid and not count against the cap. Which is what we did to Texier when he left for France.

yes but the downside of not knowing when/if he is coming out of the program is that we sort of have to keep the cap space available. I guess it falls into a the scenario at hand if it comes to this but there has to be some sort of release of responsibility/liability in the process to truly free the cap space for the team.

 

[Aaaarrgghh]

That's really terrible. Poor family.

Not sure how credible.

As a loan?

 

[CBJWerenski8]

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Oh no.