Line Combos: Roster Discussion/Line Combos

[Iron Balls McGinty]

I normally agree with you but Elvis did say last night in his interview he's 100%. Based on interviews and such seems like there's been a strain in the locker room and having your players snap on the ice at other's has to never sit well with a coach, especially when your on the hot seat. Really the only players that can get away with that are your Cs and As. Letting players snap at each other just encourages contempt between them. Also like others have said I don't Elvis can't be this soft where he plays a good game then immediately goes from "illness" to maintenance all in a few hours like this when Elvis made sure to tell the radio last night he's feeling great.

Well, I don't know what is going on in that locker room but I think there are a lot of super soft egos in that room. Everyone seems to put the blame on Elvis. And he probably rightfully has some blame but it takes two to tango.

I feel like there is a lot of whining going on by multiple players in the locker room but Elvis is the one who gets all the public blame. Just more fuel to the fire that this team is a dysfunctional disaster. It is not 1 player's fault but people in the room are trying to make it 1 players fault without taking their own blame.

 

[Xoggz22]

I think both can be correct here. I don't find it professional or good for anyone the way Elvis appears to handle himself on the ice. I love the fire, but hate the antics and blaming of others. I mean the goal he blew a gasket on was one of the softest shots I've seen go in. Blame everywhere. I also think he's got issues in the room that go beyond Fredrick Norrena level. He appears to blame, not just get fired up. He's still not been good enough to show me (my personal opinion) that he's a #1 in the NHL. His contract is awful and having to retain on 3 years isn't ideal, however, the window for the team may be three more years away. If I'm the new GM, unfortunately, the first thing I'm trying to do is see how I can unload Elvis and reset in goal.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

I think both can be correct here. I don't find it professional or good for anyone the way Elvis appears to handle himself on the ice. I love the fire, but hate the antics and blaming of others. I mean the goal he blew a gasket on was one of the softest shots I've seen go in. Blame everywhere. I also think he's got issues in the room that go beyond Fredrick Norrena level. He appears to blame, not just get fired up. He's still not been good enough to show me (my personal opinion) that he's a #1 in the NHL. His contract is awful and having to retain on 3 years isn't ideal, however, the window for the team may be three more years away. If I'm the new GM, unfortunately, the first thing I'm trying to do is see how I can unload Elvis and reset in goal.

A good chance you are right but also allow for the possibility that a new GM sees the true problem lies elsewhere once he comes in from an outsider's perspective.

So we have a repetive issue with the perception that Elvis blows up at teammates when they don't play well.(which is almost every night if you look at the perception of people on this board)

If we do root cause analysis, maybe we should try to figure out why the defense in front of him plays like a junior pond hockey team. If you fix the root cause, you then tend to fix the subsequent issues.

I get that nobody is perfect and mistakes happen but for the love of all things holy in this world it happens virtually every f'ing night.

 

[majormajor]

I'm liking the fit with Voronkov with Johnny and Nylander. I'd like to see Vincent keep Voronkov there for a whlie.

 

[Cowumbus]

If we do root cause analysis, maybe we should try to figure out why the defense in front of him plays like a junior pond hockey team. If you fix the root cause, you then tend to fix the subsequent issues.

I get that nobody is perfect and mistakes happen but for the love of all things holy in this world it happens virtually every f'ing night.

How do you feel about Tarasov’s game tonight, playing with an AHL team vs an elite team?

I remember an interview back in the day with a member of the Lightning scouting department where they talked about how some goalies aren’t bad players, but bad system fits. As an example, if your team plays a run-and-gun style and gives up a lot of breakaways, you may want a goalie that is better defending 1v1 situations as opposed to a guy that is better at battling through screens (for a team that gives up a lot of in-zone time).

I’m wondering what his advanced goalie stats look like in different kind of shots/looks against vs Tarasov’s.

 

[VT]

I'm liking the fit with Voronkov with Johnny and Nylander. I'd like to see Vincent keep Voronkov there for a whlie.

I already see how Voronkov will play there when Jenner comes back...

 

[MoeBartoli]

I can already see how Voronkov will play there when Jenner comes back...

And will be back to 10 minutes a game.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

How do you feel about Tarasov’s game tonight, playing with an AHL team vs an elite team?

I remember an interview back in the day with a member of the Lightning scouting department where they talked about how some goalies aren’t bad players, but bad system fits. As an example, if your team plays a run-and-gun style and gives up a lot of breakaways, you may want a goalie that is better defending 1v1 situations as opposed to a guy that is better at battling through screens (for a team that gives up a lot of in-zone time).

I’m wondering what his advanced goalie stats look like in different kind of shots/looks against vs Tarasov’s.

Honestly was more interested in reds baseball and the women's NCAA tournament. I have no opinion tonight. He's been pretty solid over the last month or so. good for him.

In general, I do find they tighten down defensively more in a game after they get embarrassed for poor defensive moments that either cost them or almost cost them games. I think that all comes down to the dysfunctional and subpar coaching staff. I don't know what style we have honestly. Maybe Tarasov is better at battling through screens because Elvis does get screened a lot. We don't possess the puck much because we can't sustain offensive zone time. There could be something to that.

 

[VT]

And will be back to 10 minutes a game.

Optimist.

 

[Cowumbus]

If he is available, would anyone bring back Saad as a veteran role player?

 

[majormajor]

If he is available, would anyone bring back Saad as a veteran role player?

My impression was that he was never the most driven player. Power forward body but didn't make the most of it.

I'd rather a player that pushed too hard than a guy who needed pushed. Just off the top of my head, Blake Wheeler fits that bill. Queue the horror from the Laine superfans.

Henrique is another veteran leader on the market.

I'd be checking with Guentzel, Pavelski, Marchessault, maybe Monahan or Lindholm? Maybe Wennberg? Stephenson?

 

[VT]

My impression was that he was never the most driven player. Power forward body but didn't make the most of it.

I'd rather a player that pushed too hard than a guy who needed pushed. Just off the top of my head, Blake Wheeler fits that bill. Queue the horror from the Laine superfans.

Henrique is another veteran leader on the market.

I'd be checking with Guentzel, Pavelski, Marchessault, maybe Monahan or Lindholm? Maybe Wennberg? Stephenson?

Wheeler is already bad and too old. Btw, Maurice bereaved him "C" I think it has some reason. Guentzel is only dream, I like Pavelski but doubt he would want to play here after Dallas with its weather. I hope no one of the couple Lindholm/Monahan will play here.

 

[EspenK]

Wheeler is already bad and too old. Btw, Maurice bereaved him "C" I think it has some reason. Guentzel is only dream, I like Pavelski but doubt he would want to play here after Dallas with its weather. I hope no one of the couple Lindholm/Monahan will play here.

Not specifically aimed at this but I think this is symptomatic of many CBJ fans. They tend to only want guys who are stars without considering the makeup of the team. We need guys who are solid NHLers that can play D, understand the game, can make the young guys better.

My impression was that he was never the most driven player. Power forward body but didn't make the most of it.

I'd rather a player that pushed too hard than a guy who needed pushed. Just off the top of my head, Blake Wheeler fits that bill. Queue the horror from the Laine superfans.

Henrique is another veteran leader on the market.

I'd be checking with Guentzel, Pavelski, Marchessault, maybe Monahan or Lindholm? Maybe Wennberg? Stephenson?

I like this list of guys who could help. I'm sure all have some warts but all have some strengths that could help the Jackets.

 

[koteka]

How do you feel about Tarasov’s game tonight, playing with an AHL team vs an elite team?

I think it was a combination of 2 things - Tarasov had incredible positioning and Colorado was attacking from the outside and not really going to the net. That first period the Avalanche looked like they were putting on a passing drill clinic around the perimeter. A couple of shots got through Tarasov and there were some short rebounds, but Colorado couldn’t capitalize because the Jackets had a defenseman down low that either got the puck to Tarasov or cleared it out. In a lot of games this season the opponent would have a guy down low who would get a tap in, but the Avalanche weren’t fighting for goals in front of the net.

 

[Viqsi]

Not specifically aimed at this but I think this is symptomatic of many CBJ fans. They tend to only want guys who are stars without considering the makeup of the team. We need guys who are solid NHLers that can play D, understand the game, can make the young guys better.

Savior Syndrome.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

Not specifically aimed at this but I think this is symptomatic of many CBJ fans. They tend to only want guys who are stars without considering the makeup of the team. We need guys who are solid NHLers that can play D, understand the game, can make the young guys better.

not for nothing, but some of the young guys are solid and can play D, we just haven't seen it because vincent's been too cowardly to give them a chance until injuries forced his hand.

case in point: cole sillinger's last three games:

• 19:26 TOI at pittsburgh, primarily against the malkin line, 1-1-2 and +2
• 23:47 TOI vs pittsburgh, matched up on crosby, 1 assist and +2
• 22:46 TOI vs colorado, matched up on mackinnon, 1 goal and +2

in his last three games he's averaging 21:00 minutes of ice time, matched up against some of the league's top players, and he's +6 over that span with 4 points.

the team has repeatedly choked away leads this season because vincent is too afraid to do anything but lean on the only 'solid vets' on the team (jenner, kuraly). when the kids get their chance, they perform better in those moments.

there's an opportunity cost to adding more veterans, which is that it takes those minutes away from guys who will need to play those key minutes someday.

 

[EDM]

There seems to be sooooooo much talent in this franchise if they could only find the right guy to push the right buttons. It is not Vincent.

 

[EDM]

We talk about adding veterans and seem to forget we still have Brindley, Malesta, and maybe Dumais eagerly waiting in the wings. That is a major part of why I feel so strongly that Vincent must go. There are going to be a lot of difficult balancing acts that will need to be performed with the talent we have and could add over the next couple of seasons.

 

[squashmaple]

not for nothing, but some of the young guys are solid and can play D, we just haven't seen it because vincent's been too cowardly to give them a chance until injuries forced his hand.

case in point: cole sillinger's last three games:

• 19:26 TOI at pittsburgh, primarily against the malkin line, 1-1-2 and +2
• 23:47 TOI vs pittsburgh, matched up on crosby, 1 assist and +2
• 22:46 TOI vs colorado, matched up on mackinnon, 1 goal and +2

in his last three games he's averaging 21:00 minutes of ice time, matched up against some of the league's top players, and he's +6 over that span with 4 points.

the team has repeatedly choked away leads this season because vincent is too afraid to do anything but lean on the only 'solid vets' on the team (jenner, kuraly). when the kids get their chance, they perform better in those moments.

there's an opportunity cost to adding more veterans, which is that it takes those minutes away from guys who will need to play those key minutes someday.

Vincent coaches scared is what it boils down to. It'll be interesting to see how he changes as a coach over time (for other teams, obviously) as he grows more confident in himself in the role.

 

[Monk]

Vincent coaches scared is what it boils down to. It'll be interesting to see how he changes as a coach over time (for other teams, obviously) as he grows more confident in himself in the role.

I forget where it was, but a podcast a while back discussed how he's never, in his entire coaching career, coached a winning team (sub .500 or something like that). Their point wasn't that he's a bad coach and it was his fault, but that he's always come into a coaching position and had to try to preserve his job basically from the start, and that's likely impacted how he does things.

 

[Xoggz22]

A good chance you are right but also allow for the possibility that a new GM sees the true problem lies elsewhere once he comes in from an outsider's perspective.

So we have a repetive issue with the perception that Elvis blows up at teammates when they don't play well.(which is almost every night if you look at the perception of people on this board)

If we do root cause analysis, maybe we should try to figure out why the defense in front of him plays like a junior pond hockey team. If you fix the root cause, you then tend to fix the subsequent issues.

I get that nobody is perfect and mistakes happen but for the love of all things holy in this world it happens virtually every f'ing night.

I don't disagree with you. My eyes tell me that Elvis is being outplayed by Tarasov by a longshot and the temperament displayed is a stark contrast between the two. I'm a competitor and have no issue with someone pointing out mistakes and getting on someone to pick it up, however, it just feels different with Elvis (again, could be perception as clearly I'm not in the room). Both goalies are playing behind the same team. Both are seeing mistakes in front of them. Both appear to handle it differently and dare I say the team seems to be responding better to Tarasov.

I have no axe to grind and certainly just want the best decisions made to get this team on track for the long term. I'm a novice and just a fan but have played sports my entire life (over 45 years of team sports) and just don't see Elvis as the answer. Just one man's opinion.

 

[VT]

Not specifically aimed at this but I think this is symptomatic of many CBJ fans. They tend to only want guys who are stars without considering the makeup of the team. We need guys who are solid NHLers that can play D, understand the game, can make the young guys better.

We have excellent players, so don't need stars. I just doubt Lindholm and Monahan will accept salaries and years of contract adequately. Do we need other Gaudreau or Severson?

 

[Xoggz22]

We talk about adding veterans and seem to forget we still have Brindley, Malesta, and maybe Dumais eagerly waiting in the wings. That is a major part of why I feel so strongly that Vincent must go. There are going to be a lot of difficult balancing acts that will need to be performed with the talent we have and could add over the next couple of seasons.

The only one of those three I see pushing for realy NHL time is Brindley and he can play in Cleveland first. I've never been sold on Dumais and I really like Maletesta but he needs more time and is likely a bottom 6/bottom 3 guy. Not a needle pusher but a glue guy like Calvert. This team needs experience and talent to get on track in my opinion. Not more youth and promise of talent. Let them bitch about playing in Cleveland while the NHL club wins games. That's what I would love to see and dont' think we've ever seen that. Team has a lot of young talent but still lacks the drivers and elite players that make others better. That's not easy to get and takes time to build. We've done nothing but push the needle forward on the young players without having the foundation of higher end talent to help drive them.

Brindley will be one of those guys... in 3 years.

We have excellent players, so don't need stars. I just doubt Lindholm and Monahan will accept salaries and years of contract adequately. Do we need other Gaudreau or Severson?

We have excellent prospects, not players. If they were excellent players this team would be better. Maybe it's the fit, the structure, the makeup of the team? I don't want to bring in stars because they are stars (or were stars), I want the Dubinsky and Foligno's of the world that were good enough but forced everyone to be better. I'm not sure I see that to help develop any future stars. Maybe with FAntilli, Jiricek, Mateychuk and this year's 1st we get that elite level talent... who's driving them there? I"m no longer convinced we have that.

 

[Monstershockey]

I forget where it was, but a podcast a while back discussed how he's never, in his entire coaching career, coached a winning team (sub .500 or something like that). Their point wasn't that he's a bad coach and it was his fault, but that he's always come into a coaching position and had to try to preserve his job basically from the start, and that's likely impacted how he does things.

That isn't true. Had plenty of above .500 seasons in major juniors, 9 out of 11 seasons, 3 out of 5 in the AHL, although one was covid shortened.

 

[VT]

The only one of those three I see pushing for realy NHL time is Brindley and he can play in Cleveland first. I've never been sold on Dumais and I really like Maletesta but he needs more time and is likely a bottom 6/bottom 3 guy. Not a needle pusher but a glue guy like Calvert. This team needs experience and talent to get on track in my opinion. Not more youth and promise of talent. Let them bitch about playing in Cleveland while the NHL club wins games. That's what I would love to see and dont' think we've ever seen that. Team has a lot of young talent but still lacks the drivers and elite players that make others better. That's not easy to get and takes time to build. We've done nothing but push the needle forward on the young players without having the foundation of higher end talent to help drive them.

Brindley will be one of those guys... in 3 years.


We have excellent prospects, not players. If they were excellent players this team would be better. Maybe it's the fit, the structure, the makeup of the team? I don't want to bring in stars because they are stars (or were stars), I want the Dubinsky and Foligno's of the world that were good enough but forced everyone to be better. I'm not sure I see that to help develop any future stars. Maybe with FAntilli, Jiricek, Mateychuk and this year's 1st we get that elite level talent... who's driving them there? I"m no longer convinced we have that.

We are young team, if I don't count Gaudreau, Werenski is 27, Laine 26 (of course nobody know what will be with him) others are under 25 even 23.
I agree, we need a player like Dubinsky and/or Foligno. But no one of them isn't similar. I think only Gudbranson is a type of this.