Roster Building XIX - Did we blow the deadline? Need to ask the magic 8-ball

[Discipline Daddy]

I don't agree. That 06 team had both high end talent and depth that not many cup winning teams have had upfront.

that line of Staal, Stillman, Cole (and then Recchi) was just as dominant and if you paid too much attention to them, the RBA/Williams line (with Ladd at the end of the season) would make you pay. And after the deadline, if you managed to stop those two lines, you had Whitney-Weight-Cullin that could burn you.

Staal: 45G, 100P
Williams: 31G, 76P
Stillman: 21G, 76P
RBA: 31G, 70P
Cole: 30G, 59P (in 60 games)
Whitney: 17G, 55P (53 games)
Cullen: 25G, 49P

Recchi: 28G, 64 points on the season
Weight: 15G, 57 points on the season

Then for depth:
Ladd, Vasicek, Larose, K. Adams, C. Adams.

Never ceases to amaze me that Vasicek went from leading the team in scoring in 03-04 (lockout 04-05) to being a healthy scratch the next year.

 

[bleedgreen]

I don't agree. That 06 team had both high end talent and depth that not many cup winning teams have had upfront.

that line of Staal, Stillman, Cole (and then Recchi) was just as dominant and if you paid too much attention to them, the RBA/Williams line (with Ladd at the end of the season) would make you pay. And after the deadline, if you managed to stop those two lines, you had Whitney-Weight-Cullin that could burn you.

Staal: 45G, 100P
Williams: 31G, 76P
Stillman: 21G, 76P
RBA: 31G, 70P
Cole: 30G, 59P (in 60 games)
Whitney: 17G, 55P (53 games)
Cullen: 25G, 49P

Recchi: 28G, 64 points on the season
Weight: 15G, 57 points on the season

Then for depth:
Ladd, Vasicek, Larose, K. Adams, C. Adams.

Yup, our first line was a legit first line with a 100pt scorer on it. If you got past them you had Rod to contend with - and his use of Staal I think reflects what he thought of his second line back then. A grind line that could score on you. That third line crushed it that year, most teams would expend their best defense to contend with the top two lines - it was often that third line that would take advantage and break the game open with either a goal or drawing a call with a nice play that led to a game changing pp.

I don’t know the numbers this year but it feels the third line hasn’t scored as much as other recent years, which I think is the big difference between the 06 and this team. Of course our third line could show up for the playoffs, and we may need them to.

Taking a good look at that 06 team and how Rod was used gives you a lot of insight on why Staal has been what he is to us during his coaching tenure and why Rod would play him (and at even strength almost does) as a 2C. He has imo seen himself in 06 when he looks at Staal, and especially early on as a coach tried to make that a thing as much as he could.

 

[Svechhammer]

Look at all those ELCs being signed by quality prospects

 

[Derailed75]

Look at all those ELCs being signed by quality prospects

This right here is the key to over spending on someone like Guentzel. You have to have a few people punching above their pay grade and thats usually only gonna be guys on ELC's. With Vets you are lucky if they provide what they get paid.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Never ceases to amaze me that Vasicek went from leading the team in scoring in 03-04 (lockout 04-05) to being a healthy scratch the next year.

And Vrbata, who went on to become a 50-60 point player for many seasons couldn't crack the roster.

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

The original consensus on KK was:

Option 1, upside: 2nd line center
Option 2, fallback: D-focused 3rd line center
Option 3, worst case: trade/cheap buyout

Looks like we're at option 3 to me. Some of that is KK, and some of it is that the Canes FO has been really aggressive in continuing to bring in talent, but regardless, if we have Aho/Kuzy/Staal for another year down the middle, KK is not cracking that lineup and is making way too much for 4C. If he can be a 3C somewhere else, let him go be that and Godspeed to him.

I agree we're at 3 and I agree it's at least partly because of the Canes FO making other moves. If not for Kuzy and hoping to sign Guentzel/needing $ for him, I'd be completely comfortable keeping Koko next season. It's crazy how quick people forget what his upside really is as the first 2-3 months of the season he looked like a legit all around 2C who could put up points. Unfortunately as we all know, his play completely fell off a cliff from there for various reasons but it's not like he doesn't have talent. Outsiders will view it as a bust for us but I do think if we didn't go aggressively bring in other forward talent that we'd stick with the plan with him and his contract and acquisition would all still be fine.

Bad timing now results in him probably being on the outs, but it's not entirely because of Koko being a bust. Option 2 is kinda out the window because we kept Staal medium term again. Also Drury has begun to surpass expectations so there just isn't room to keep Koko especially with the developing he still needs to do. Highly dependent on situation but I can see him having success on another team as soon as next year. He was a 40+ point guy with solid defense even in a somewhat limited role last year, and his start to this season was great. Just need the consistency and he needs a team who can fully buy into developing him. We still could if not for our deadline moves, which were great moves obviously.

 

[CanesUltimate11]

the Czech Condor was the man

I remember going to meet the team at the airport I think coming back from Toronto in 02 and a few players stood out. I'm 6'4" but thin as a rail. Was mostly eye to eye with Ron Francis. Towered over Sean Hill (though he was about twice as wide as me) and Vasicek was just freaking massive. It was nuts seeing him next to the fans and other players in street clothes.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

I agree we're at 3 and I agree it's at least partly because of the Canes FO making other moves. If not for Kuzy and hoping to sign Guentzel/needing $ for him, I'd be completely comfortable keeping Koko next season. It's crazy how quick people forget what his upside really is as the first 2-3 months of the season he looked like a legit all around 2C who could put up points. Unfortunately as we all know, his play completely fell off a cliff from there for various reasons but it's not like he doesn't have talent. Outsiders will view it as a bust for us but I do think if we didn't go aggressively bring in other forward talent that we'd stick with the plan with him and his contract and acquisition would all still be fine.

Bad timing now results in him probably being on the outs, but it's not entirely because of Koko being a bust. Option 2 is kinda out the window because we kept Staal medium term again. Also Drury has begun to surpass expectations so there just isn't room to keep Koko especially with the developing he still needs to do. Highly dependent on situation but I can see him having success on another team as soon as next year. He was a 40+ point guy with solid defense even in a somewhat limited role last year, and his start to this season was great. Just need the consistency and he needs a team who can fully buy into developing him. We still could if not for our deadline moves, which were great moves obviously.

With the amount of potential roster flux next offseason, I'm not entirely sure if KK is an odd man out. Regardless, I don't personally care that much about this coming offseason. We're running one of our deepest rosters ever this post-season, so I might as well enjoy it.

 

[Borsig]

at this point f*** kokonut.

I'm tired of wating for that ship to come in. Bye.

 

[SvechneJerk]

With the talk of the Yotes to SLC, how about Necas for Logan Cooley & Victor Soderstrom? Who says no??

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

With the talk of the Yotes to SLC, how about Necas for Logan Cooley & Victor Soderstrom? Who says no??

Every team in the NHL except for Carolina says no. Heck, even a team (SLC) not in the NHL says no.

 

[SvechneJerk]

Every team in the NHL except for Carolina says no. Heck, even a team (SLC) not in the NHL says now.

Just swinging for the fences, ser.

 

[NotOpie]

at this point f*** kokonut.

I'm tired of wating for that ship to come in. Bye.

I get what you're doing you sneaky devil....you're putting the "I hate Orlov" reverse hex on KK.....awesome rebound incoming.......

 

[StrmSurge]

No way... We go got two more solid players for practically nothing. This team is as stacked as I've seen in a long time.

I wouldn't be surprised if Kuznetzov and Guentzel are the pieces that finally take us to the (you know where)

 

[LakeLivin]

I get what you're doing you sneaky devil....you're putting the "I hate Orlov" reverse hex on KK.....awesome rebound incoming.......

Orlov, before that, Freddy . . . it's a tactic that has been definitively proven!

 

[Btlegend082]

Not sure where else to post this but how is Kuzy doing with yall and had he had any impact on Orlov

 

[Unsustainable]

Not sure where else to post this but how is Kuzy doing with yall and had he had any impact on Orlov

Kuznetsov is doing fine, while the points might not be happening here and there, but he's keeping the 2nd line center job on lock down. Orlov turned the corner awhile back after being cemented with Chatfield, and he plays great. Wish he was on PP2 to be honest.

Kuznetsov seems to be having fun and Rod allows him to be him.

 

[Svechhammer]

Not sure where else to post this but how is Kuzy doing with yall and had he had any impact on Orlov

Kuzy has made our 2nd line dangerous. And while they are a bit snakebit on the score sheet, they still get plenty of chances every night and they grind the heck out of the opposing backcheck. That kind of play will pay off in a 7 game series.

Orlov came into his own before Kuz got here. If anything, I think he being here helped Kuz out to get settled in right away.

 

[Bunch of Jurcos]

As well as both Kuzy and Guentzel have played so far, we've been well documented that it takes at least a half a season to finally get used to playing here. So even if we go to the mountaintop this isn't even our final form as to how good we could be. Boys, this could get absolutely disgusting to watch next year and I'm 1000% here for our vengeance.

 

[MinJaBen]

As well as both Kuzy and Guentzel have played so far, we've been well documented that it takes at least a half a season to finally get used to playing here. So even if we go to the mountaintop this isn't even our final form as to how good we could be. Boys, this could get absolutely disgusting to watch next year and I'm 1000% here for our vengeance.

And by disgusting you are referring to watching the new third pair get absolutely lit up, right?

 

[Unsustainable]

And by disgusting you are referring to watching the new third pair get absolutely lit up, right?

We have 4 defenseman under contract for next season. I have came to realize to trust The Borg on finding Dmen.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Per NST, since Necas returned from injury on January 19th, Kuzentsov+Necas (w/o Drury) has been .66 GF/60 and .34 GA/60 worse than Drury+Necas (w/o Kuznetsov). Expected, it's .15 and 1.08 (!) worse respectively.

Who's responsible for that? Hard to say. Necas was bound to cool off. Kuznetsov has been mid, though.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Per NST, since Necas returned from injury on January 19th, Kuzentsov+Necas (w/o Drury) has been .66 GF/60 and .34 GA/60 worse than Drury+Necas (w/o Kuznetsov). Expected, it's .15 and 1.08 (!) worse respectively.

Who's responsible for that? Hard to say. Necas was bound to cool off. Kuznetsov has been mid, though.

Who could have imagined 2 perimeter players who don’t play defense consistently would not be dynamic together?

The necas kuzy pair is really bad when you pull out Guentzel’s time too. 1.51 GF/60 and 1.89 GA/60

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Hot take, I guess, as some are still in the honeymoon period with Kuznetsov: right now, I like the lineup better with Drury and Kotkaniemi in. Drury has younger, fresher legs. Kotkaniemi shares more in common with a prototypical 4C.

Hopefully #92 has more to give this season.

 

[Discipline Daddy]

Who could have imagined 2 perimeter players who don’t play defense consistently would not be dynamic together?

The necas kuzy pair is really bad when you pull out Guentzel’s time too. 1.51 GF/60 and 1.89 GA/60

Yeah, the focus on Kuzy is all offense. He's a wizard with the puck. Sometimes he looks like me skating out there, but with endless confidence and zero pulse in puck movement. It's a blessing, it's a curse.

Kuzy's defense is really bad though, and I notice it in a negative way every other shift he takes. He's way more in line with a typical top 6 forward in the NHL, and we're heavily spoiled with watching a Brind'Amour coached team.

Next year maybe Kuzy will be better conditioned and make better assignments defensively. I'd expect a marginal but not major improvement.