Speculation: Roster Building Thread XXXIV: Walk the line into the ring of fire

[The Crypto Guy]

So, long term, how does Kreider make us a 'worse' team? Minus the bottleneck this upcoming season, the cap will not be an issue.

You can't get to your long goals by disregarding short - intermediate goals. All you see is long term. You don't know how you're going to get there but you envision some utopia of talent and cohesiveness.

Keep repeating the same talking points. You dont even realize what you're saying.

How did STL win? Was it with teenagers and young 20 year olds? Or was it late 20 - early 30's?
How did WAS win? Was it with teenagers and kids in their early 20's? Or was it mid/late 20's - early 30's?
How did PITT win? Was it with older vets and some form of youth infusion? or just HF dream of kids and prospects?

What you're proposing is waiting until these 19-22 year old come of age, which is 6-7 years from now... and by then, HOPE AND PRAY it works. Wait 7 years for Chytil and Kakko to come of age to lead a team. Solid plan. In your dream world there are no vets, yet in the real world, you need a strong vet presence to win.

How I see it.
We can compete and win in the short term. 1-2 years.
We can compete and win in the intermediate 3-5 years.
We can compete and win in the long term 6+ years.

It's not 1 or the other.

We have an abundance of ELC and controllable assets. So over the next 5-7 years we will get great value from them. Combine that with GOOD vet talent ( .ie Panarin.. Kreider.. NOT Staal ) there's a recipe for some delicious success. May be wise to take advantage of Igor's prime. He's 24.

When Fox, Chytil, Kakko etc reach UFA years, Panarin and Kreider will be coming off the books. At this point we'd have accumulated 7 years worth of draft picks... ( Yes I know, you forgot about that. It's an on going process.... ) Fox, Chytil, Kakko etc become the vets and we infuse more ELC/controllable asset talent into the mix.

The fact that I have to spell it out to this extent is mind numbing.

Yikes. I feel bad for you that you wasted so much time typing that out without knowing long term consequences about signing youth

 

[archanfelnsx]

Have Kreider sign a one year deal for $6 million so that when Lundqvist, Staal and Smith contract come off the books then give him his 5 year $7 million contract next year.

 

[wafflepadsave]

It's been almost two hours since the game ended. Any rumors? Anyone see one of the moms hit David Quinn with her purse?

Just Hank’s.

 

[Leetch3]

Have Kreider sign a one year deal for $6 million so that when Lundqvist, Staal and Smith contract come off the books then give him his 5 year $7 million contract next year.

zero reason that kreider would do that and there is only minimal benefit to the rangers

 

[Gospel of Prospal]

Have Kreider sign a one year deal for $6 million so that when Lundqvist, Staal and Smith contract come off the books then give him his 5 year $7 million contract next year.

Why would Kreider do that?

 

[Leetch3]

hockey gods reward us last year for playing hard and trying to win until the final game and not tanking...

and just as a reminder, the draft lottery the last 3 years...2019 Chicago jumped from 12 to 3, 2018 Carolina jumped from 11 to 2 and 2017 Philly jumped from 12 to 2

 

[RoyIsALegend]

Chris Johnston said that Joe Sakic really doesn’t seem interested in rentals and wants a forward with term. He specifically mentioned Palmieri and Tatar.

Bruins made their move.

I really think the skies are opening for a Kreider extension.

 

[egelband]

Well trying to make the playoffs this year at the expense of acquiring assets to help the team reach another level in the years to come does not sound like a very good plan to me. Besides, trading some players away doesn't mean they suddenly have no chance to keep playing well.

I don’t see it as an either/or proposition. I just think I’d rather they move lesser players like Strome, Buch, Skjei, Fast...or somehow they get out of the Henrik deal...and keep CK *on a reasonable deal*. That may not be possible. And I’m fine with them moving anyone, in theory. But realistically it’s quite tough to just gut a team that’s rolling and even-as-is the youngest team in the league. So...it’s nuanced. And it’s impossible to handicap what’s going to happen. It’s quite an interesting turning point we’ve reached. I’m just hopeful JG steers this boat right.

(For me the “reasonable” deal is $8m x 5 years. I’d pay a higher salary in exchange for a shorter term).

 

[Kupo]

Gorton started working for the Bruins in ‘92. I was 12 lol. 28 years experience in this business.

He has a Masters in sports management. Anyone here who thinks they understand this industry better than Gorton is a straight up fool.

He understands player values better than all us combined. He has more connections than all of us combined. When it comes to managing a hockey team, he has more knowledge and experience in his pinky than all of us combined.

I keep seeing one too many dumbass posts saying Gorton is going to blow it and f*** up his hand. He knows what cards he’s holding better than all of us.

The wannabe armchair GM knowitalls that think they know better than Gorton look and sound like complete ass-clowns. Seriously.

 

[egelband]

Gorton started working for the Bruins in ‘92. I was 12 lol. 28 years experience in this business.

He has a Masters in sports management. Anyone here who thinks they understand this industry better than Gorton is a straight up fool.

He understands player values better than all us combined. He has more connections than all of us combined. When it comes to managing a hockey team, he has more knowledge and experience in his pinky than all of us combined.

I keep seeing one too many dumbass posts saying Gorton is going to blow it and f*ck up his hand. He knows what cards he’s holding better than all of us.

The wannabe armchair GM knowitalls that think they know better than Gorton look and sound like complete ass-clowns. Seriously.

Good points. Thank you.

 

[Kupo]

So, long term, how does Kreider make us a 'worse' team? Minus the bottleneck this upcoming season, the cap will not be an issue.

You can't get to your long goals by disregarding short - intermediate goals. All you see is long term. You don't know how you're going to get there but you envision some utopia of talent and cohesiveness.

Keep repeating the same talking points. You dont even realize what you're saying.

How did STL win? Was it with teenagers and young 20 year olds? Or was it late 20 - early 30's?
How did WAS win? Was it with teenagers and kids in their early 20's? Or was it mid/late 20's - early 30's?
How did PITT win? Was it with older vets and some form of youth infusion? or just HF dream of kids and prospects?

What you're proposing is waiting until these 19-22 year old come of age, which is 6-7 years from now... and by then, HOPE AND PRAY it works. Wait 7 years for Chytil and Kakko to come of age to lead a team. Solid plan. In your dream world there are no vets, yet in the real world, you need a strong vet presence to win.

How I see it.
We can compete and win in the short term. 1-2 years.
We can compete and win in the intermediate 3-5 years.
We can compete and win in the long term 6+ years.

It's not 1 or the other.

We currently have an abundance of ELC and controllable assets. So over the next 5-7 years we will get great value from them. Combine that with GOOD vet talent ( .ie Panarin.. Kreider.. NOT Staal ) there's a recipe for some delicious success. May be wise to take advantage of Igor's prime. He's 24.

When Fox, Chytil, Kakko etc reach UFA years, Panarin and Kreider will be coming off the books. At this point we'd have accumulated 7 years worth of draft picks... ( Yes I know, you forgot about that. It's an on going process.... ) Fox, Chytil, Kakko etc become the vets and we infuse more ELC/controllable asset talent into the mix.

The fact that I have to spell it out to this extent is mind numbing.

You’ve said the same thing 112 times already, in an impressive 57 different ways.

At the end of the day there are valid reasons why Kreider should, and shouldn’t be signed.

Everyone thinks they’re standing on the right side of the fence, not nobody knows with complete certainty what the correct decision is.

If the rebuild is as successful as it should be, maybe the decision with Kreiders fate in NY might still lead down the same path.

There are multiple amounts of different blueprints that can lead to a Cup. It’s not black and white.

I’ve stopped trying to convince people CK should be moved. At the end of the day I’m a marketing manager who knows no better or worse than most people in this forum.

In Gorts I Trust, regardless of what decision he makes with Kreider (and the rest of the team).

 

[EdJovanovski]

Posted this in the PGT but thought it was relevant to this one. To preface this; we now have 34.7% odds of making the playoffs according to MoneyPuck. 25x greater odds of making the playoffs than winning the draft lottery and greater odds of winning the cup than the draft lottery.

I think we could surprise some teams in the playoffs, so many guys on our team just SCREAM playoff performers. I cannot wait to see the likes of ADA & Lemieux in there For years we've complained about our team not having that killer instinct, not having that edge or burning desire, being a team of pushovers who were mentally weak. I know some people like to bash "muh intangibles" but we've really developed a team with an incredible amount of heart and so many distinct personalities/characters. Look at all the comebacks, that game against Edmonton where we were nearly the first team in NHL history to come back from a 6-0 deficit. The game against Montreal where we were down 4-0 and scored 6 goals in 25 mins. We also boast an insane record in games coming off of a loss.

Quinn is a superb coach & motivator, and this team has a realistic chance of making the playoffs despite being the youngest team in the NHL. This is the first real rebuild many of us have ever been fans through, so we may just gloss over the bumps & hurdles in other teams rebuilds and just looked at the end result. I've seen many doubting our rebuild and panicking over Andersson, Kravtsov, etc. even Kakko. But things take time and for a team who just sent that letter out two years ago, we're well on our way

 

[motopanekeku]

Gorton started working for the Bruins in ‘92. I was 12 lol. 28 years experience in this business.

He has a Masters in sports management. Anyone here who thinks they understand this industry better than Gorton is a straight up fool.

He understands player values better than all us combined. He has more connections than all of us combined. When it comes to managing a hockey team, he has more knowledge and experience in his pinky than all of us combined.

I keep seeing one too many dumbass posts saying Gorton is going to blow it and f*ck up his hand. He knows what cards he’s holding better than all of us.

The wannabe armchair GM knowitalls that think they know better than Gorton look and sound like complete ass-clowns. Seriously.

A competent gm is sort of a new thing around here. Sather's antics have scarred more than a few of us.

 

[Vitto79]

Kreider talking like a guy who wants to stay that’s for sure

 

[17futurecap]

 

[Dijock94]

To be honest I don’t post much here but I am constantly reading and following these boards. I feel like I have to voice my frustration right now because we have the youngest roster in the NHL and they have really come together as a team recently and have been performing. But because of the salary cap and our teams buyouts and dead cap space we can’t even keep this current roster together if we wanted to.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Gorton started working for the Bruins in ‘92. I was 12 lol. 28 years experience in this business.

He has a Masters in sports management. Anyone here who thinks they understand this industry better than Gorton is a straight up fool.

He understands player values better than all us combined. He has more connections than all of us combined. When it comes to managing a hockey team, he has more knowledge and experience in his pinky than all of us combined.

I keep seeing one too many dumbass posts saying Gorton is going to blow it and f*ck up his hand. He knows what cards he’s holding better than all of us.

The wannabe armchair GM knowitalls that think they know better than Gorton look and sound like complete ass-clowns. Seriously.

I wasn't born lol

 

[QJL]

Kreider probably has until some specific time tomorrow to sign a deal. There are offers on the table. I’m worried they are inner division.

Fast should have the same rule or he should be traded for the highest pick.

If Kreider resigns, Strome is out in the off-season.

I think the extension happens and this team ends on the brink of the playoffs. A win tomorrow puts the Rangers at the 15th best record in the league through 60 games. Playoffs or not, and it’s going to be close, this team is tending up big time. I’m quite happy about it.

 

[Ola]

Posted this in the PGT but thought it was relevant to this one. To preface this; we now have 34.7% odds of making the playoffs according to MoneyPuck. 25x greater odds of making the playoffs than winning the draft lottery and greater odds of winning the cup than the draft lottery.

I think we could surprise some teams in the playoffs, so many guys on our team just SCREAM playoff performers. I cannot wait to see the likes of ADA & Lemieux in there For years we've complained about our team not having that killer instinct, not having that edge or burning desire, being a team of pushovers who were mentally weak. I know some people like to bash "muh intangibles" but we've really developed a team with an incredible amount of heart and so many distinct personalities/characters. Look at all the comebacks, that game against Edmonton where we were nearly the first team in NHL history to come back from a 6-0 deficit. The game against Montreal where we were down 4-0 and scored 6 goals in 25 mins. We also boast an insane record in games coming off of a loss.

Quinn is a superb coach & motivator, and this team has a realistic chance of making the playoffs despite being the youngest team in the NHL. This is the first real rebuild many of us have ever been fans through, so we may just gloss over the bumps & hurdles in other teams rebuilds and just looked at the end result. I've seen many doubting our rebuild and panicking over Andersson, Kravtsov, etc. even Kakko. But things take time and for a team who just sent that letter out two years ago, we're well on our way

Not saying this as any kind of decisive argument for that Gorton should do X or Y, but to retirate (how is that spelled? Can’t even get close enough for spell check lol) to a post I made a a few days ago — I think the distance between us and the top teams are smaller than we imagine.

What I mean with that is like, if you are say Carolina, will they face a much harder team to play against than us last night? Nah, nobody is much better than that. What other teams have is a consistency on another level, but we can play really good hockey.

 

[Ola]

Another thing, one guy I think is — misjudged — is Ryan Lindgren.

He wasn’t a big prospect, he didn’t pwn the AHL. His first camp wasn’t out of this world. And so forth.

But this guy has had a TRANSFORMATION that is simply outstanding. When you see him in the locker room he has like no body fat. His stickhandling, skating, everything is much improved.

This guy is doing everything he did in the AHL last season, but Y2Y he is so much improved.

My biggest point with this is that he shouldn’t be brushed aside as an OK D who is doing a good job and surprising everyone for performing over his abilities. If he was in this shape and this well drilled when he was a prospect he would easily have been a top 15 pick. He is a bona fide top 4 D right now.

 

[BLEETCH1994]

It's amazing how well conversations go in here while some posters are in "sleepy time".

 

[SnowFort]

I trust in Gorton. If he trades Kreider, I bet he had a good reason. If he re-signs him, I also bet he had a good reason.

But I do agree that there should be an inner deadline within the organization, they can’t let this drag on anymore. Either sign or trade. Preferably before Monday or even Sunday.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Another thing, one guy I think is — misjudged — is Ryan Lindgren.

He wasn’t a big prospect, he didn’t pwn the AHL. His first camp wasn’t out of this world. And so forth.

But this guy has had a TRANSFORMATION that is simply outstanding. When you see him in the locker room he has like no body fat. His stickhandling, skating, everything is much improved.

This guy is doing everything he did in the AHL last season, but Y2Y he is so much improved.

My biggest point with this is that he shouldn’t be brushed aside as an OK D who is doing a good job and surprising everyone for performing over his abilities. If he was in this shape and this well drilled when he was a prospect he would easily have been a top 15 pick. He is a bona fide top 4 D right now.

Oh crap there’s a player I left out in my post about ADA & Lemieux being built for the playoffs. Those 3 are going to be ready for war

 

[offdacrossbar]

i find it ironic that the youngest dmen on the team are playing the best hockey right now

lindgren plays like prime girardi and shows the same compete level as #27 did. impressive.

fox plays like a 10 year vet and has brian leech stuff. for a rook, thats just insane.

and tony has broken through to a new level. his skating is off the charts, the confidence and the ability to make plays running the PP1 has been the key to this PP success. he and panarin work beautifully together. his ability to pass the puck at the right time on the tape to the right guy is so under appreciated here. he is a marvelous outlet passer

those 3 have outplayed the trouba, skjei, staal trio by miles.

says a lot about quinn too.

 

[Vitto79]

To be honest I don’t post much here but I am constantly reading and following these boards. I feel like I have to voice my frustration right now because we have the youngest roster in the NHL and they have really come together as a team recently and have been performing. But because of the salary cap and our teams buyouts and dead cap space we can’t even keep this current roster together if we wanted to.

I wouldn’t be too concerned it’s 1 yr then Staal and Smith are off the books . May even be able to trade Smith after July 1st bonus is paid

Hank may retire and that opens up more . If not again 1 yr

Shattenkirk huge hit is off after 1 yr too

It’s besically 1 yr and then a ton of options