Salary Cap: Roster-building Thread XXVIII : Lots of D prospects... but need moar D.

[wizmet12]

Can we just go and get Burns?
i like him alot
Sutter+(Kunitz)

 

[penguins2946*]

Here's a couple deals that I think could help us a lot:

At the deadline:

Martin to anyone for a 1st
Kunitz to Montreal for a 2nd and 3rd
Waive Adams

Lineup for the rest of the year:

Perron-Crosby-Hornqvist
Comeau-Malkin-Bennett
Spaling-Sutter-Rust
Wilson-Lapierre-Downie

Despres-Letang
Dumoulin-Ehrhoff
Scuderi-Pouliot

In the offseason:

Sutter and Megna to Edmonton for our 1st
Bennett, Harrington and our 1st to Toronto for JVR
Scuderi at $2.5 million to Minnesota for a 5th
Our 2nd in 2016 to Buffalo for Gorges (same thing he was traded for last summer)
Re-sign Downie ($2.5 million) and Comeau ($2.5 million)
Sign Jagr ($2 million), Soderberg ($5 million) and Dorsett ($1.5 million) in free agency

Perron-Crosby-Hornqvist
JVR-Malkin-Jagr
Comeau-Soderberg-Downie
Sundqvist-Spaling-Dorsett
Wilson-Rust

Maatta-Letang
Gorges-Despres
Pouliot/Dumoulin/Bortuzzo rotating

Fleury-Zatkoff

That's a much nicer lineup IMO, and the best part is we still have a 1st, 2 2nds and a 3rd in the draft this year. That lineup costs about $70 million, which gives us $1 million space in wiggle room.

 

[redsono93]

Well that and piss poor drafting. Nyqvist was picked 1 pick after we picked Moon (who?). Pulkkinen was drafted 1 pick after we drafted Kuhnhackl. Those 2 players alone would make a massive difference. But you add in poor drafting AND drafting more D than any other team in the league (by a noticeable margin) AND trading a lot of draft picks... and it's a receipt for disaster. Shero did redeem himself with the Staal trade (for bringing in assets), he then shot himself in the foot, by drafting Pouliot. Great prospect and should be a great player... but so far from what we needed (and yes I know FF was never a real option - but he should have been).

I do blame RS but what about our scouting department? I almost feel we need a new scouting department. Seeing Nyquist in this post makes me sad Nathan Moon where are you now

 

[Riptide]

Trade Dumoulin for Kassian. Trade Kunitz for picks or prospects and cap space. Send Harrington to Anaheim for Nick Ritchie. Trade a pick or two to Winnipeg for Brenden Lemieux. Send Sunqvist+other pick+prospect to Arizona for Hanzal. Resign Downie for hopefully $1.5mil or close to that. Include Spaling in any of the deals above or trade for picks to be used in the deal above.

Sign Petry and Boychuk.

I don't think Ritchie or Hanzal are realistic trades. We would also be screwed by the cap due to having signed Petry and Boychuk to contracts longer than 2 years, and would have to give Hanzal, Perron, Maatta and Despres extensions that would cost somewhere around 18-22m.

 

[Dennis Reynolds]

That's a much nicer lineup IMO, and the best part is we still have a 1st, 2 2nds and a 3rd in the draft this year. That lineup costs about $70 million, which gives us $1 million space in wiggle room.

Sign me up. But I think Toronto would want more/could get a better package for JVR.

 

[penguins2946*]

Sign me up. But I think Toronto would want more/could get a better package for JVR.

They probably could, but it's not like Bennett, Harrington and a 1st around 15-20 is a bad package for him.

 

[Riptide]

I do blame RS but what about our scouting department? I almost feel we need a new scouting department. Seeing Nyquist in this post makes me sad Nathan Moon where are you now

They absolutely (from the outside looking in) get some blame. But ultimately Shero is responsible for it as the guy in charge.

And before people say well it was a late pick, it's a crap shoot... go look closer at it. Some of the names drafted right after we made picks (picks who years later do not look like contributing top 9 NHL players).

Mrazek, Haula, Nyqvist, Pulkkinen, Anders Lee are the more notable ones. The fact that we seemed scared to draft more Europeans, and that we drafted D heavy were very poor moves. I know you always want to draft "BPA" however at some point - especially when looking at long shot players, shouldn't organizational needs be taken more into account?

 

[redsono93]

They absolutely (from the outside looking in) get some blame. But ultimately Shero is responsible for it as the guy in charge.

And before people say well it was a late pick, it's a crap shoot... go look closer at it. Some of the names drafted right after we made picks (picks who years later do not look like contributing top 9 NHL players).

Mrazek, Haula, Nyqvist, Pulkkinen, Anders Lee are the more notable ones. The fact that we seemed scared to draft more Europeans, and that we drafted D heavy were very poor moves. I know you always want to draft "BPA" however at some point - especially when looking at long shot players, shouldn't organizational needs be taken more into account?

Wasn't Kucherov one we could have drafted as well?

 

[SEALBound]

Wasn't Kucherov one we could have drafted as well?

All hindsight. Too hard to know how everyone will pan out. I can tell you there's probably 15 teams out there kicking themselves for not taking Maatta...

We passed on Forsberg...

We took Matt Stone instead of Loui Eriksson...

 

[Riptide]

Wasn't Kucherov one we could have drafted as well?

Lots of players we could have drafted. I looked at some of the more notable players drafted directly after some of our picks, and specifically didn't go past 2011/12.

 

[redsono93]

All hindsight. Too hard to know how everyone will pan out. I can tell you there's probably 15 teams out there kicking themselves for not taking Maatta...

We passed on Forsberg...

We took Matt Stone instead of Loui Eriksson...

Got ya what's JR draft history like over the years?

 

[EVGENIMERLIN]

http://mweb.cbssports.com/nhl/eye-o...what-the-bruins-have-to-show-for-a-decade-of-
trading-stars

Interesting article as it relates to the risk of trading star players

 

[Chili Goal]

Got ya what's JR draft history like over the years?

not superb.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

They absolutely (from the outside looking in) get some blame. But ultimately Shero is responsible for it as the guy in charge.

And before people say well it was a late pick, it's a crap shoot... go look closer at it. Some of the names drafted right after we made picks (picks who years later do not look like contributing top 9 NHL players).

Mrazek, Haula, Nyqvist, Pulkkinen, Anders Lee are the more notable ones. The fact that we seemed scared to draft more Europeans, and that we drafted D heavy were very poor moves. I know you always want to draft "BPA" however at some point - especially when looking at long shot players, shouldn't organizational needs be taken more into account?

When you are consistently proven wrong a few years later that you, in fact, did NOT take the "Best Player Available", then yeah I think the BPA argument goes right out the window.

There's no doubt in my mind that our draft & development record during the Crosby/Malkin era is a huge reason why we are where we are today...i.e. stuck in no man's land, in neutral, going nowhere really.

 

[SEALBound]

Got ya what's JR draft history like over the years?

Doesn't really matter for the same reasons. Not to mentioned I believe its more on the scouts than the GM. He's not the one out there evaluating talent. Of course when you have a GM whose soul purpose is to accumulate an embarrassing amount of high end defensive prospects...doesn't matter what your drafting record is.

What we should be more worried about is JR's history (if there is one) of trading away picks for non-impact rentals that don't pan out. See Shero with Poni, Leupold, Murray, Morrow, Iginla...etc).

Ultimately, his decisions to trade picks and prospects for those guys far outweighs the trades like Neal, Kunitz, and Hossa.

 

[Chili Goal]

mentioned this on the trade board, but in a weird way I think Jagr is exactly what this team and locker room needs right now. on the ice, an obvious finisher who would re-ignite the PP while slotting in perfectly next to Geno (and allowing Hornqvist to go back to Sid's RW, and Perron to his natural LW side).

off the ice, though - I think he's lived this, what Sid, Geno and the entire team are going through. he's seemingly come out of that stage with an appreciation for the game and what it offers (duh, gambling money). he trains and plays hard, but can also maybe help this group RELAX a bit.

no one player is going to single-handedly save this current vintage. but Jagr comes the closest.

would Lou do Sutter for Jagr & Zidlicky, salary retained? if so, then you deal Bortuzzo+ for a heavy center and see what you've got.

Perron - Sid - Hornqvist
Comeau - Geno - Jagr
Kunitz - Acquisition - Bennett
Spaling - Lappy - Downie

Martin - Letang
Ehrhoff - Zidlicky
Despres - Pouliot/Scuderi (47 & 51 had a shift or two together last night I believe)

 

[Riptide]

Got ya what's JR draft history like over the years?

Not good. And while he went heavy on the forwards with the picks he had last spring (1,4,5,6,7) odds are only 1 (KK) is anything special. This next draft is unlikely to be much different with only a 2nd in the first 3 rounds.

Fortunately for us, however his preference is to draft heavy on forwards in the early rounds due to their shorter development time. He also doesn't like the fact that typically by the time a D has developed they're almost a UFA. So there's been a few D drafted early in Carolina (Murphy, JJ, Faulk, Dumoulin, McBain, Hagemo (back to 04)), overwhelmingly he drafts forwards in the first 2 rounds. And with how our prospect pool is compiled, I don't see that changing anytime soon.

 

[ColePens]

Can we just go and get Burns?
i like him alot
Sutter+(Kunitz)

No joke - i'd do it in a heartbeat. The guy is the PERFECT player for the Pens. But it ain't happening.


The other hidden gems the Pens had offers lined up and missed are Hossa, Parise, and Suter. Those were the "right" players we needed on this team. We really missed out when they all chose to go elsewhere.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I'd be over the moon if JR & Co. found a way to snag Burns out of SJ.

I still hope we re-visit the ROR possibility this summer. I think he's as close to perfect as we're likely to get for our top six.

 

[Gurglesons]

I'd be over the moon if JR & Co. found a way to snag Burns out of SJ.

I still hope we re-visit the ROR possibility this summer. I think he's as close to perfect as we're likely to get for our top six.

Judging by the Epix series, Burns is like the best influence in that locker room. I don't even want to think about what he'd cost.

 

[T1K]

Is Burns on the block? I'd give up a lot for him. Basically anyone but Crosby, Malkin, or MAF.

 

[Riptide]

What we should be more worried about is JR's history (if there is one) of trading away picks for non-impact rentals that don't pan out. See Shero with Poni, Leupold, Murray, Morrow, Iginla...etc).

Ultimately, his decisions to trade picks and prospects for those guys far outweighs the trades like Neal, Kunitz, and Hossa.

And I'm not sure how we can evaluate that. The situation in Carolina was different in the sense that he had to build through the draft, and thus wasn't really able to trade picks like Shero could. For one, Carolina hasn't been a contender for a while. Secondly, he would have had a harder time replenishing his talent through free agency there than here. Not saying it's a cakewalk here, but it is easier here than there to sign FAs.

My bigger concern is some of the trades he has made with players. But without knowing the background on them, it makes it hard to have a fully accurate picture. But even those, looking at them and taking things into consideration they don't seem "that" bad (other than the JJ one). More a case of I really want X and am willing to overspend slightly to get X. Look at his trade history, I don't see some of the knockout trades like Shero did. What I do see is a lot of middling trades (mid picks for 2nd tier assets) or selling of players for futures.

 

[Shrimper]

The biggest problem with this team is that we have got two superstar centers and expected to win with them, we haven't thought about building a roster around them outside of a few players. That is the problem and it needs to change.

 

[T1K]

The biggest problem with this team is that we have got two superstar centers and expected to win with them, we haven't thought about building a roster around them outside of a few players. That is the problem and it needs to change.

In the RS era, yes, but in the JR era, no. He's done a great job bringing guys in to give Malkin and Crosby guys to play with. Obviously it's not gonna happen in just one season, but it's a good start.

 

[roquay]

Is Burns on the block? I'd give up a lot for him. Basically anyone but Crosby, Malkin, or MAF.

They'd want Maatta and I would be happy with that.