Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXXVI

[Rangerfan4life90]

If we had more prospects, one miss would be no big deal. The 2007 first round sweep is what we got because we decided the rebuild was over when we made a few trades in February 2004. I was yelling everywhere to trade Jagr, Nylander and Straka for futures. The haul would've been enormous. The combination of an earlier pick plus a massive amount of youth for 3 stars would've meant at least the 2014 Cup, maybe more... probably more. Instead, Slats signed the washed up Shanahan and Cullen, who absolutely hated living in New York before he was traded back to Carolina. We got our playoffs. The memory of those 4 games (all loses) will last a lifetime. Right?

Rebuild the right way.

With some bounces and luck, the Rangers win a cup during those years.

I don't regret it.

 

[Ola]

Yeah he’s trying to fire up his squad

Torts gets a lot of **** but here he is in the playoffs, yet again. He has his flaws but he’s a good coach. Unlike Alain.

Player for player he has one of the absolute best rosters in the league.

 

[Ola]

Nice win by Dallas, GWer by Zucc.

The four 1st dream is still alive!

 

[Barnaby]

We lost to LA in 2014 because of the Jessiman pick. If we had gotten our elite franchise forward in that draft such as Parise, Getzlaf, Perry, Kesler, Richards or Bergeron things play out a whole lot different.

That series win over Atlanta (in 2007 btw) had nothing to do with it except laying the ground work for what was to come with guys like Girardi and Callahan establishing themselves.

You can't possibly know that. Ever hear of the butterfly effect? Maybe that player gets hurt or the team is constructed differently - any of a myriad of possibilities. This is such drivel... and believe me I detest that pick like everyone else here.

 

[egelband]

That has been some people's position for a while now. They won't characterize it that way, but we have people suggesting we sign both Panarin and EK. I'm sorry, but if you are doing that, the rebuild is officially over. Neither player is coming here to be part of a rebuild and with them on the team, the clock on our window starts ticking. There would be a ton of pressure to win sooner rather than later. Even if we sign just Panarin, it starts the clock ticking because people aren't going to want to waste his prime years.

I'd say the range of opinion has shifted. I don't think many people see the asset accumulation phase laying beyond next summer. I for one think it's pretty realistic to think the Rangers will be pushing for a playoff berth in 20-21. I have come around to the thinking that signing Panarin would be premature (you all have convinced me). But I think they (should) ride out this year and try to get as much out of next summer's draft as possible. Then if things are going well in 20-21 they make a deadline deal or sign someone three following summer if need be.
I'm still up in the air re Kreider. I like him a lot but worry about long-term deals. But if the price and term make sense, I'd think they bring him back. That all will be determined by the market of course.

 

[egelband]

How so, please explain? If they ended up in a different spot, say where LA (2) or Buffalo (5) finished would they still be picking 2nd?

No one knows, really.

 

[egelband]

There are a couple of young players who I am curious to know what the team thinks of for next year. Based on what we see right now, there is quite the log jam pretty much everywhere in the line-up:

Ville Meskanen
Vinni Lettieri
Chris Bigras
Tim Gettinger
Ryan Lindgren
Yegor Rykov
Patrick Newell
Libor Hajek
Gabriel Fontaine

If two or three of the Rangers "lesser" prospects become good players... Wow. It's very nice to have all this reasonable hope for the team.

 

[egelband]

Is it "rushing" if he's ready?

DOB Feb 13, 2001 - makes him 18, no?

19 if he were Korean btw.
Korean Age Calculator: What's My Korean Age?

 

[Ori]

Player for player he has one of the absolute best rosters in the league.

Yes I regret that I had Tampa in 5 - CBJ might steal that serie, and Dallas might steal the Nashville one; TSN have Dallas Stars too.

Nice win by Dallas, GWer by Zucc.

The four 1st dream is still alive!

One of his worst games this season even with that goal, and he mentioned that as well in an interview after the game.

 

[Ola]

Some thoughts:

1. Kravtsov and Kakko won't be "10m players" coming out of their ELCs. I put 10m within quotes, to get the opportunity to emphazise that I with 10m players refer to today's levels, they will be resigning in the summer of 2022, who knows what the cap will be then,

They won't have the same immediate affect as like a Jack Eichel had. Kravtsov won't get 20 goals from using his release on the PP like Laine.

I think we can assume that their 2nd contracts will be fairly reasonable. More Barkov style than Eichel style.

2. Gorton should keep Steven's badge in his inner pocket (I hope there is where he kept it, and didn't gun for synergy effects with his lucky jockey's).

I don't think any team deserves more than a 20% tag in relation to their probability to win a Cup these days. That also applies for Tampa. Dallas won last night. But it will be tough for them to get 8 wins this off-season. Their depth played well last night, that is the key for them. That Roope kid was flying. But if Ottawa could get to the ECF three years ago, so can Dallas, with some luck. Zucc scored a goal for them last night, but played pretty crappy overall. Made a big defensive blunder. It was pretty bad timing for him to break that arm, he was basically playing the best hockey of his career. Since the deadline he has played what, 10 periods of hockey? The timing isn't quite there.

We can gain three 1st rounders the coming months, or get none. Maybe its more fair to describe it as two 1st and one 2nd, since Tampa's in fact means that we move up from 62 to 31, of which the value probably is pretty equal to a mid 2nd, depending a bit on who is still left on the table. But nothing is guaranteed. There is probably fair reasons to believe that Zucc will resign and that we will get Dallas' 2020 1st, but its not guaranteed and I do think its hard to argue that its even probable that we will get one of the 1st rounds this season. But impossible? Hardly, we could get 2 with some luck...

3. Its the time of the year you must keep in mind that NHL GMs is a fickle bunch. Things that are set in stone a week ago can certainly be yesterday's news in just a few weeks or after the Cup is raised. Everyone were talking only about speed and skill in 2007, then Anaheim somehow manage to steal a POs series against Detroit which they had no reason to win, and then their top Ds in Pronger and Neidermayer, first line center in Andy McDonaly that was a real speedster, and good mix of size and grit easily allowed them to beat a pretty flat and overrated Ottawa team. All of a sudden size and grit was all that matters in June-July 2007.

And its the same with players. We have discussed Subban here, Nashville fans are talking about him like he is Girardi II, but who knows what his stock will be worth in a couple of weeks or months. Remember Nash during our cup run, how much his stock fell from the last day of the regular season and during the POs.

Gorts need to keep his options open. I think that means that he should invest in the blueline and pursue the trade route rather than the UFA market. Things can change, however.

 

[Ori]

I`m not worried about Zucc - he played on experience last morning @Ola he was in the final vs Canada in the worlds some years ago played most Olympic for Norway as the only NHL guy, and knocked out US alone almost with John Torts. I think you guys give too much credits to Kreider this season based on Mika success.

Yes I know u are spot on Zucc @Ola he should not even play this morning! And ideally rest him for another 2 weeks based on his broken arm injury to not risk his new contract this summer. But Dallas have no time to wait, because of playoffs which is understandable. But they will never sign Zucc for their 2020 1st pick - unless he score in each playoffs game or have key assist and carry their 1st line which was their worst line in the game with most TOI compare to their depth 2nd with Benn, 3rd & their 4th line created much more offense.

My point is what we can hope for is Tampa actually win or Dallas win two rounds of playoffs, but it will be hard and I agree with you. Radulov, Seguin have been watching 2-3 years on the sideline not qualified for playoffs and their 1st line had obvious playoffs nerves and was on vacation in Nashville.

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

I would be more than happy if they added Kakko, Zegras (if he falls) and traded for Fox.

You have a core 26 years old and under of:

• Zbad
• Kakko
• Kravstov
• Buch
• Chytil
• Andersson
• Zegras
• Miller
• Lundkvist
• Fox
• Skjei
• ADA
• Lemieux
• Sheshyorkin
• Georgiev

Plus who ever they add with any other 1sts the may get depending on how the playoffs go.

 

[haohmaru]

So if they trade Kreider and don’t sign Panarin you are ok w the top 6 of all kids and Zib cause that’s what it is no ?

Depends on who they sign and who's in the top 6. I'm okay with not giving Kreider a lengthy contract for a ton of money with an NTC. I like the guy, but he disappears too much for my tastes.

 

[RangerBoy]

Some thoughts:

1. Kravtsov and Kakko won't be "10m players" coming out of their ELCs. I put 10m within quotes, to get the opportunity to emphazise that I with 10m players refer to today's levels, they will be resigning in the summer of 2022, who knows what the cap will be then,

They won't have the same immediate affect as like a Jack Eichel had. Kravtsov won't get 20 goals from using his release on the PP like Laine.

I think we can assume that their 2nd contracts will be fairly reasonable. More Barkov style than Eichel style.

2. Gorton should keep Steven's badge in his inner pocket (I hope there is where he kept it, and didn't gun for synergy effects with his lucky jockey's).

I don't think any team deserves more than a 20% tag in relation to their probability to win a Cup these days. That also applies for Tampa. Dallas won last night. But it will be tough for them to get 8 wins this off-season. Their depth played well last night, that is the key for them. That Roope kid was flying. But if Ottawa could get to the ECF three years ago, so can Dallas, with some luck. Zucc scored a goal for them last night, but played pretty crappy overall. Made a big defensive blunder. It was pretty bad timing for him to break that arm, he was basically playing the best hockey of his career. Since the deadline he has played what, 10 periods of hockey? The timing isn't quite there.

We can gain three 1st rounders the coming months, or get none. Maybe its more fair to describe it as two 1st and one 2nd, since Tampa's in fact means that we move up from 62 to 31, of which the value probably is pretty equal to a mid 2nd, depending a bit on who is still left on the table. But nothing is guaranteed. There is probably fair reasons to believe that Zucc will resign and that we will get Dallas' 2020 1st, but its not guaranteed and I do think its hard to argue that its even probable that we will get one of the 1st rounds this season. But impossible? Hardly, we could get 2 with some luck...

3. Its the time of the year you must keep in mind that NHL GMs is a fickle bunch. Things that are set in stone a week ago can certainly be yesterday's news in just a few weeks or after the Cup is raised. Everyone were talking only about speed and skill in 2007, then Anaheim somehow manage to steal a POs series against Detroit which they had no reason to win, and then their top Ds in Pronger and Neidermayer, first line center in Andy McDonaly that was a real speedster, and good mix of size and grit easily allowed them to beat a pretty flat and overrated Ottawa team. All of a sudden size and grit was all that matters in June-July 2007.

And its the same with players. We have discussed Subban here, Nashville fans are talking about him like he is Girardi II, but who knows what his stock will be worth in a couple of weeks or months. Remember Nash during our cup run, how much his stock fell from the last day of the regular season and during the POs.

Gorts need to keep his options open. I think that means that he should invest in the blueline and pursue the trade route rather than the UFA market. Things can change, however.

Let's see what Marner, Rantanen, Laine and Tkachuk get this summer. Those are big time players coming out of entry level this summer. If the Rangers are going to take the next step and accelerate the rebuild, Kakko and Kravtsov will be major reasons why. Those players will get paid. Laine might have to take a shorter deal because of the Jets cap issues.

 

[egelband]

I would be more than happy if they added Kakko, Zegras (if he falls) and traded for Fox.

You have a core 26 years old and under of:

• Zbad
• Kakko
• Kravstov
• Buch
• Chytil
• Andersson
• Zegras
• Miller
• Lundkvist
• Fox
• Skjei
• ADA
• Lemieux
• Sheshyorkin
• Georgiev

Plus who ever they add with any other 1sts the may get depending on how the playoffs go.

i think we should hold off on the Fox stuff. Wayyyyy too speculative and kind of bad karma.

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

i think we should hold off on the Fox stuff. Wayyyyy too speculative and kind of bad karma.

Oh yeah, wasn't assuming hes already on the Rangers. Just part of what I think would make a successful draft.

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

Let's see what Marner, Rantanen, Laine and Tkachuk get this summer. Those are big time players coming out of entry level this summer. If the Rangers are going to take the next step and accelerate the rebuild, Kakko and Kravtsov will be major reasons why. Those players will get paid. Laine might have to take a shorter deal because of the Jets cap issues.

Laine also might get less because of the season he had. Looking at his first three year numbers in totality look awesome, but a drop in 20 points year over year may raise a yellow flag.

 

[Good Intentions]

Using the prior “prospect” criteria - this is my two cents.

Top to bottom, what we will agree on...this is so very f***ing rich.

1. Kaapo Kakko (F) (2019)
2. Vitali Kravtsov (F) (2018)
3. Filip Chytil (F) (2017)
4. Igor Shestyorkin (G) (2014)
5. K'Andre Miller (D) (2018)
6. Nils Lundkvist (D) (2018)
7. WPG1 2019
8. Libor Hajek (D) (2016)
9. TB1 2019
10. NYR2 2019
11. Prince Georgiev (G) (UD)
12. Brett Howden (F) (2016)
13. Lias Andersson (F) (2017)
14. Ryan Lindgren (D) (2016)
15. DAL2 2019
16. Yegor Rykov (D) (2016)
17. Ty Ronning (F) (2016)
18. Neal Pionk (D) (UD)

 

[Kaapo Cabana]

I go to school with a Habs fan and he has said some pretty interesting things the past few days...

He claims Zibanejad is overrated
He claims Georgiev isn't that good and is only good vs the Leafs
Oh and he said Kotkaniemi is better than Kakko

I am greatly concerned for his mental health and intelligence

do you go to a special school?

 

[Chytilmania]

Is there a D that we can trade Kreider straight up for that would be fair for both sides?

 

[SA16]

Is there a D that we can trade Kreider straight up for that would be fair for both sides?

Adam Larsson?

 

[ElLeetch]

We lost to LA in 2014 because of the Jessiman pick. If we had gotten our elite franchise forward in that draft such as Parise, Getzlaf, Perry, Kesler, Richards or Bergeron things play out a whole lot different.

That series win over Atlanta (in 2007 btw) had nothing to do with it except laying the ground work for what was to come with guys like Girardi and Callahan establishing themselves.

Taking Dustin Brown (13th) at 12 instead of Hugh, and taking Cam Fowler (12th) instead of McIlrath at 10, and we easily win the cup in 2014.

 

[Cag29]

Using the prior “prospect” criteria - this is my two cents.

Top to bottom, what we will agree on...this is so very ****ing rich.

1. Kaapo Kakko (F) (2019)
2. Vitali Kravtsov (F) (2018)
3. Filip Chytil (F) (2017)
4. Igor Shestyorkin (G) (2014)
5. K'Andre Miller (D) (2018)
6. Nils Lundkvist (D) (2018)
7. WPG1 2019
8. Libor Hajek (D) (2016)
9. TB1 2019
10. NYR2 2019
11. Prince Georgiev (G) (UD)
12. Brett Howden (F) (2016)
13. Lias Andersson (F) (2017)
14. Ryan Lindgren (D) (2016)
15. DAL2 2019
16. Yegor Rykov (D) (2016)
17. Ty Ronning (F) (2016)
18. Neal Pionk (D) (UD)

Reuanen
Barron

 

[Off Sides]

Getting to the floor will not be an issue. This year we have no one coming off the books and we have to resign Buch DeAngelo Pionk and Lemieux.

Let’s say

Buch 4.5
DeAngelo 2.5
Pionk 2
Lemieux 1.5
Lettieri 700k

Girardi also still has 3.6 in dead cap.

While I think you are very much on the right track, I tend to look at it by using the ends of their entry level contracts and then take a guess whether they will be long term signings or bridges, and then take it a step further, if they are bridges those will be up for extension usually within two years after.

To just use the players who already played in the NHL or KHL and their 1st round picks

2019 off-season
ADA
Buch
Lemieux

2020 off-season
Georgiev


2021 off-season

If they were bridged will need extensions
ADA
Buch
Lemieux

Entry levels ending
Chytil
Howden
Hajek
Lias
Lindgren
Shestyorkin
Rykov

2022 off-season assuming the 2018 picks do not slide and they make the NHL
Kravtsov
Miller
Lundkvist
Anyone bridged in 2020 will need extensions

2023 off-season
#2 pick
and any 2019 draftee who does not slide and makes the NHL.
Plus add in any bridge extensions based on who they bridged in the 2021 off-season (could be quite a few)

That is a ton of both 2nd contracts and 3rd contracts coming off bridge deals. It's a loose outline as I may have missed a couple by a year or they could slide, it's possible some of them do not make it, and the bridges could be one, two or three years, yet point remains, tons of new and more and more expensive contracts.

All the 2021 cap space is a bit of a mirage as some of it will be spent on the KHLers, 2016 and 2017 draftees who's entry levels end that off-season, and some will need to be reserved given their likely best prospects from the 2018 and 2019 drafts will likely need big contracts one or two off-seasons after.

 

[NYR Viper]

Is there a D that we can trade Kreider straight up for that would be fair for both sides?

I think trading Kreider for more assets is the smarter play at this point. Use those assets (or others) in a year or two when the right player becomes available.

I really like the idea of:

Crouse + ARI 1st '19 + ARI 4th '21 (conditional 1st if Kreider re-signs OR is dealt at the 2020 deadline)
for
Kreider + Vesey/Fast

Crouse gives the Rangers a young power forward who would be a unique addition to the organization. Someone who can both play the game and can impose his will a bit on the opposing teams defensemen. Lemieux was a good start in that regard.