Salary Cap: Roster-building thread Part XXXVI | Light up this dumpster fire! Light em up up up!

[Asuna]

Much like Shero, people shouldn't let a few mistakes over the last couple years cloud the big picture with Chiarelli. He'd be a great guy to guide this team.

At least he'd build an identity with this team.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Apparently Stoll was arrested for possession of cocaine in Las Vegas.

Quick Pens fans! Go to the trade board and make a bunch of Brandon Sutter to LA threads!

They don't need Sutter. They have plenty of center depth...five without Stoll: Kopitar, Carter, Shore, Richards and Andreoff. And they have Adrian Kempe coming quickly, too.

LA won't want Sutter at all.

I'm not sure it is a good thing. You know what's gonna happen? Probably a really stupid statement move like a trade of Geno or Tanger. They'll try to make a big statement to bring the fans back on board and because it's the Pens and we're always mismanaged they'll make a really bad move that somehow makes the situation even worse.

That is, afterall, what they did this year. The Pens are demonstrably worse in every facet except maybe Fleury and Letang's play.

If they're worried about fans, they're not trading Malkin that's for sure.

Trading Letang and Fleury would be smart business. If they have value on the trade market, we should definitely explore it.

Agreed. The trade Perron group around here is absolutely dumbfounding. Same with MAF at the moment.

Of all the issues we have, those two are not one of them.

MAF just resigned and was probably the biggest single reason we made the playoffs in all reality. His play this year vs last year is quite good. That first goal was garbage, yes, but other than that he was solid. Murray and Jarry are not ready yet. Maybe by the time MAF's contact is up they will be a good duo, but Fleury is our guy for the next couple of years like it or not.

Perron is part of the solution. Young, top 6 wing. We need him. EVERYONE'S production and scoring was down. It was not just Perron. The short sighted "what have you done for me lately" view on Perron is very ignorant. The trade Perron supporters lose about 99% of their credit with me. If you are advocating trading him or regretting the trade, there is likely no hope for you and I certainly won't be taking your opinion seriously in any capacity.

Fleury has value. We need young assets coming back this way more than anything else right now. It would be very stupid NOT to explore what Fleury's market is this summer...considering his stock has never been higher and we need help virtually everywhere.

Perron could stay or go for me. However, there are a few pros to dealing him this summer, and a few cons:

Pros:
- he has trade value, and we could get invaluable future assets for him (reverse the deal, basically).

- he hasn't really meshed with either superstar. He's also woefully inconsistent. We traded a MUCH better player last off-season in Neal for much the same reason...and he had great chemistry with Malkin. The only way Perron becomes a part of the solution is if he meshes with either Crosby or Malkin in fine fashion. Otherwise?


Cons:
- perhaps a new regime, including a new coaching staff, would be all Perron needs to blossom here.

- asset management. Unless we can back a first in 2015, then the turnover would not be good if we dealt him.


So, with all that, I remain on the fence with regards to trading Perron. I would definitely explore dealing Fleury and Letang, though.

 

[Asuna]

http://live.tampabay.com/Event/Live_blog_Lightning_vs_Red_Wings_in_NHL_playoffs

#RedWings coach Mike Babcock said when #tblightning Tyler Johnson was an undrafted free agent, he mentioned "many, many" times to his brass that the undersized center would be a good player. But TB signed him. "This kid has turned into an unbelievable player. Just goes to show you size is not as big a factor as ability to compete and the way you skate and the way you think."

Hire Babcock.

 

[DeadPuckEra]

The issue with Perron is that he is a top 6 wing, will want paid like one, but has zero chemistry with the top 6 centers on this team. Therefore, he's useless or he is going to be an expensive third liner...

He's not going to suddenly "gel" with Crosby or Malkin next year, or any year after that. He's had ample opportunity with both players and hasn't been able to click with either.

Before we get on the Neal train. Neal looked good with Malkin early on, he just wasn't finishing.

Perron does not have an ounce of chemistry with any of the centers on this team. I like him as a player for sure, but you have to face the fact that there are better options out there and this offseason will be the prime opportunity to trade him.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

The issue with Perron is that he is a top 6 wing, will want paid like one, but has zero chemistry with the top 6 centers on this team. Therefore, he's useless or he is going to be an expensive third liner...

He's not going to suddenly "gel" with Crosby or Malkin next year, or any year after that. He's had ample opportunity with both players and hasn't been able to click with either.

Before we get on the Neal train. Neal looked good with Malkin early on, he just wasn't finishing.

Perron does not have an ounce of chemistry with any of the centers on this team. I like him as a player for sure, but you have to face the fact that there are better options out there and this offseason will be the prime opportunity to trade him.

Wtf are you talking about?

He's played all of three games with Malkin. That's an ample opportunity?

 

[Riptide]

22M in cap space for . . .

2 top six wingers - 10m gone
L3 RW - 1.2m gone (BB)
Fourth line
Reserve forward
2nd pairing defenseman 5m
2 defensemen to fill out 5-7 with Lovejoy - 2.5m

So much flexibility there . . . a team looking to move salary, KHL guys, college free agents like Hayes on whom we never can be serious bidders.

There's not really as much flexibility as you think. You're at 18.2 and still need 2.5m or so for the 4th line and the 13th F, plus some cap room for the deadline and injuries. There's even less when you consider that anyone you sign this summer will have term (those top 6 wingers and the 2nd pairing D). So while there's some room to make things work, but we also need to ensure that we have around 6m or so of free cap space the following season to sign Maatta and Perron to extensions.

 

[Riptide]

Because Scuderi is over 26 the buyout is 2.25 for 4 years so its not really worth it. Surely someone would take him at 50%?

That pass to Lovejoy in Game 1 was typical Scuderi. No pressure, 10 ft pass and he misses the stick by a couple of feet . Maybe buyout is the only option or keep him a don't play him.....yeah right like thats going to happen

His buyout is 66% of what his remaining salary is - which is 5.5m (3m, 2.5m). The buyout would be spread out over twice the remaining term, so 4 years. According to capgeek (and my poor memory - however if you search my posts here I do have one in it with the exact numbers) it looks like this (for the cap hit):
2015/16: 1.1m
2016/17: 1.7m
2017/18: 900k
2018/19: 900k

And yes I know the salary doesn't add up when what capgeek said... so I'm not sure what the deal is with that... just that something very similar to the above is what capgeek said the buyout for Scuderi would be with 2 years left on his deal.

No clue what a Kunitz one looks like as I've never put one though on capgeek when it was up.

 

[KIRK]

There's not really as much flexibility as you think. You're at 18.2 and still need 2.5m or so for the 4th line and the 13th F, plus some cap room for the deadline and injuries. There's even less when you consider that anyone you sign this summer will have term (those top 6 wingers and the 2nd pairing D). So while there's some room to make things work, but we also need to ensure that we have around 6m or so of free cap space the following season to sign Maatta and Perron to extensions.

There are avenues aside from free agency. A couple of college free agents and one winger from a team looking to cut cap. A guy like Boychuk can be found most years from a team looking to find cap space. You're looking at this like Shero or Rutherford, and frankly it's why the Pens keep failing to build a proper team around Sid and Geno.

 

[SEALBound]

His buyout is 66% of what his remaining salary is - which is 5.5m (3m, 2.5m). The buyout would be spread out over twice the remaining term, so 4 years. According to capgeek (and my poor memory - however if you search my posts here I do have one in it with the exact numbers) it looks like this (for the cap hit):
2015/16: 1.1m
2016/17: 1.7m
2017/18: 900k
2018/19: 900k

And yes I know the salary doesn't add up when what capgeek said... so I'm not sure what the deal is with that... just that something very similar to the above is what capgeek said the buyout for Scuderi would be with 2 years left on his deal.

No clue what a Kunitz one looks like as I've never put one though on capgeek when it was up.

1.1+800k for Dumo, $1.9mil to replace Scuds with an AHL guy. I'd do it. Much rather waive or trade him...but I would do it.

 

[KIRK]

1.1+800k for Dumo, $1.9mil to replace Scuds with an AHL guy. I'd do it. Much rather waive or trade him...but I would do it.

Same goes for Kunitz.

And, I still say if you (a) get rid of those two even with buyouts, (b) move Sutter for futures and put Sundqvist/Spaling in his stead, and (c) let Martin and Ehrhoff walk, the Pens would have the type of flexibility that would let them go for top college free agents, poach names returning from the KHL, and even be a judicious player in free agency. There would be almost as much flexibility or more as the summers of 2010 or 2012. Unfortunately, we've got a GM every bit as likely to **** up things as the last one.

 

[ibar726]

Wtf are you talking about?

He's played all of three games with Malkin. That's an ample opportunity?

Not to mention that Malkin is currently injured and nowhere close to 100%, and the same goes for Perron. I want to see what they look like next year when both are healthy....ideally with an 3rd linemate who is not an steel anchor around their necks that constantly murders offensive possessions. Only then will I be comfortable saying that Malkin and Perron can not work together.

 

[chethejet]

Forget the numbers, Kunitz and Scuderi have demonstrated how badly the Shero and Mj have handled two players getting prime time and not able to come close to deserving that opportunity. The decisions continue this fraud was on MJ and management not wanting to upset the so called locker room chemistry. What a joke.

 

[SEALBound]

Same goes for Kunitz.

And, I still say if you (a) get rid of those two even with buyouts, (b) move Sutter for futures and put Sundqvist/Spaling in his stead, and (c) let Martin and Ehrhoff walk, the Pens would have the type of flexibility that would let them go for top college free agents, poach names returning from the KHL, and even be a judicious player in free agency. There would be almost as much flexibility or more as the summers of 2010 or 2012. Unfortunately, we've got a GM every bit as likely to **** up things as the last one.

Exactly. One thing however, I believe if Ehrhoff and Martin both walk then we need to look into a Petry, Sekera, or Franson. Letang-Maatta should be set as the top pair. Beyond that you have:

Pouliot
Lovejoy
Cole
Dumoulin
Harrington
No Scuds (bought out assuming)

I don't think there's a 2nd pairing in there. A 3rd pairing sure, but not a solid 2nd pairing. Sign say Petry, stick him with Pouliot, and that's a good 2nd pairing. Cole, Rev, Dumo, Harry duke it out for the 5 and 6 spot. Not to mention that we always have injuries so it's not like the 7/8 won't play. With that, when they do and everyone becomes healthy you have 4 guys you can choose from. Whoever is playing best, you role with. You may even get to send out Lovejoy is the others play well. My biggest fear is that this team views Lovejoy as a Top 4 dman now and in the future. Just like they saw Scuderi as a dman worth keeping.

Getting rid of Kunitz and assuming Dupuis retires, you have plenty of spots open and if the organization sets in motion the message that they need a youth movement, you have something to offer young free agents like the Hayes'es and the Panarins.

Essentially 2 top 6 spots, a 3rd line spot, and two 4th line wing positions are open. Assuming we cut the fat, we should have quite a bit of flexibility.

 

[Riptide]

1.1+800k for Dumo, $1.9mil to replace Scuds with an AHL guy. I'd do it. Much rather waive or trade him...but I would do it.

Same goes for Kunitz.

If I couldn't move Scuds after retaining 30%, I'd absolutely buy him out. However I really think we could move Kunitz IF management wanted to. However I don't really think it'll happen.

 

[harmonica]

They don't need Sutter. They have plenty of center depth...five without Stoll: Kopitar, Carter, Shore, Richards and Andreoff. And they have Adrian Kempe coming quickly, too.

LA won't want Sutter at all.




If they're worried about fans, they're not trading Malkin that's for sure.

Trading Letang and Fleury would be smart business. If they have value on the trade market, we should definitely explore it.




Fleury has value. We need young assets coming back this way more than anything else right now. It would be very stupid NOT to explore what Fleury's market is this summer...considering his stock has never been higher and we need help virtually everywhere.

Perron could stay or go for me. However, there are a few pros to dealing him this summer, and a few cons:

Pros:
- he has trade value, and we could get invaluable future assets for him (reverse the deal, basically).

- he hasn't really meshed with either superstar. He's also woefully inconsistent. We traded a MUCH better player last off-season in Neal for much the same reason...and he had great chemistry with Malkin. The only way Perron becomes a part of the solution is if he meshes with either Crosby or Malkin in fine fashion. Otherwise?


Cons:
- perhaps a new regime, including a new coaching staff, would be all Perron needs to blossom here.

- asset management. Unless we can back a first in 2015, then the turnover would not be good if we dealt him.


So, with all that, I remain on the fence with regards to trading Perron. I would definitely explore dealing Fleury and Letang, though.

You trade Fleury, you trade any near future cups away. Fleury is up there with Geno and Sid in absolute importance. At least at this time.

 

[systemsgo]

If they're worried about fans, they're not trading Malkin that's for sure.

Trading Letang and Fleury would be smart business. If they have value on the trade market, we should definitely explore it.




Fleury has value. We need young assets coming back this way more than anything else right now. It would be very stupid NOT to explore what Fleury's market is this summer...considering his stock has never been higher and we need help virtually everywhere.

Perron could stay or go for me. However, there are a few pros to dealing him this summer, and a few cons:

Pros:
- he has trade value, and we could get invaluable future assets for him (reverse the deal, basically).

- he hasn't really meshed with either superstar. He's also woefully inconsistent. We traded a MUCH better player last off-season in Neal for much the same reason...and he had great chemistry with Malkin. The only way Perron becomes a part of the solution is if he meshes with either Crosby or Malkin in fine fashion. Otherwise?


Cons:
- perhaps a new regime, including a new coaching staff, would be all Perron needs to blossom here.

- asset management. Unless we can back a first in 2015, then the turnover would not be good if we dealt him.


So, with all that, I remain on the fence with regards to trading Perron. I would definitely explore dealing Fleury and Letang, though.

You won't fetch as much as you want in a trade with goalies half of the time. If you trade him, who do you want as our starter next year? There isn't all that much out there among the UFAs. If Fleury plays the way he has, 5m is a very reasonable price, considering what other goalies are making.

And trading away your 1D, how would you replace him? 1Ds don't grow on trees. It's not like we're the Preds and have a Jones or Josi. Maatta has played well in the games he's had, but he's in no way proven yet.

To the management (according to the media), the core is Sid, Geno, Letang and Fleury. So none of them are leaving.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

http://live.tampabay.com/Event/Live_blog_Lightning_vs_Red_Wings_in_NHL_playoffs



Hire Babcock.

I wonder how many of the size queens in this threads will pick that a part.

Sign Panarin please.

 

[#66]

The issue with Perron is that he is a top 6 wing, will want paid like one, but has zero chemistry with the top 6 centers on this team. Therefore, he's useless or he is going to be an expensive third liner...

He's not going to suddenly "gel" with Crosby or Malkin next year, or any year after that. He's had ample opportunity with both players and hasn't been able to click with either.

Before we get on the Neal train. Neal looked good with Malkin early on, he just wasn't finishing.

Perron does not have an ounce of chemistry with any of the centers on this team. I like him as a player for sure, but you have to face the fact that there are better options out there and this offseason will be the prime opportunity to trade him.

He looks a little bit better with Malkin than Sid. Give that a little more time.

IMO hes not good off the rush but plays better once plays are established in the offensive zone. His biggest asset is his dangles to buy time for puck management and MALKIN needs to adjust to play off that.

 

[Will Hunting]

There's not really as much flexibility as you think. You're at 18.2 and still need 2.5m or so for the 4th line and the 13th F, plus some cap room for the deadline and injuries. There's even less when you consider that anyone you sign this summer will have term (those top 6 wingers and the 2nd pairing D). So while there's some room to make things work, but we also need to ensure that we have around 6m or so of free cap space the following season to sign Maatta and Perron to extensions.

Oh, Jesus Christ. Perron needs to really improve A ****ING LOT until we should be discussing his extension. Right now, the word "extension" doesn´t deserve to be in the same sentence as "Perron". We will know more about his possible injury after the playoffs maybe (I don´t think that he´s seriously injured though) but he just plays the absolutely wrong way now, no matter what is happening. Even if he were injured, some things that he does are just headscratching. Like turnovers, that icing, dumb penalties, crazy ability to not hit the net etc.. Of course there are other aspects of his game that are just terrible now, but those can be excused by possible injury, partially.

Look at Malkin though. He´s clearly not right and is struggling. He´s very likely more injured than Perron is. Yet he at least plays disciplined and his defensive work is very decent. He wasn´t known as a reliable defensive player either, even when healthy, but at least he finds some ways to conribute. He tries, he cares, it´s visible.. even though it might be painful to watch him struggle. Perron.. I mean, what is he doing now? What is he doing? Let´s wait with his extension, yet. That shouldn´t even be discussed now. He needs to go back to basics now, first of all.

 

[ObsessedCreative*]

For the love of god when are you dolts going to get it through your thick skulls Pascal Dupuis isn't going to retire and forfeit millions of freaking dollars...

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Wtf are you talking about?

He's played all of three games with Malkin. That's an ample opportunity?

An injured Malkin, at that.

Don't give up on Perron yet, folks.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

An injured Malkin, at that.

Don't give up on Perron yet, folks.

Both guys are hurt IMHO.

A player doesn't fall off a cliff like Perron has unless he is hurt. He's never been the type to look like he doesn't care. Why would a guy who has always played with passion and intensity suddenly stop doing that?

Either he no longer cares or he is hurt.. I'll leave it up to each individual to decide which scenario they think is true.

 

[Riptide]

Oh, Jesus Christ. Perron needs to really improve A ****ING LOT until we should be discussing his extension. Right now, the word "extension" doesn´t deserve to be in the same sentence as "Perron". We will know more about his possible injury after the playoffs maybe (I don´t think that he´s seriously injured though) but he just plays the absolutely wrong way now, no matter what is happening. Even if he were injured, some things that he does are just headscratching. Like turnovers, that icing, dumb penalties, crazy ability to not hit the net etc.. Of course there are other aspects of his game that are just terrible now, but those can be excused by possible injury, partially.

And with all of that... if it were up to me I'm still going to sign him to an extension. There's just not enough talent out there not to. That doesn't mean I wouldn't trade him or something... but I'm certainly not going to let him walk for free as a FA next year.

 

[Riptide]

New thread is up:
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1880473