Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXXIII

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

Just speculation by Friedman: But he thinks Karlsson would love playing for the Rangers.

Although I see the big time risks, part of me would love to see this simply because I love the player and seeing him on my team would rule.

 

[DanielBrassard]

I could be wrong but I don’t think our draft position will have much of an impact with the direction Gorton goes this or even next offseason.

I don't agree. If you somehow end up with a Hughes it almost behooves you to compete before his ELC runs out assuming he hits his ceiling.

 

[Off Sides]

There are certain things there is no getting around

The CBA is going to end. can be right before 2020-21 season or before the 2022-23 season.

There is going to be expansion, team starts playing 2021-22

The contacts to Lundqvist, Staal, Smith, Shattenkirk would all end naturally after the 2020-21 season

Rangers have only two players currently signed beyond the 2020-21 season

Pretty much every entry level contract which comes from the 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020 drafted players are going to end somewhere between 2021 and 2025, plus Shesterkin

Is that all coincidence, or was much of it by design?

 

[DanielBrassard]

So do I.

I think he stays in San Jose. If he does make it to UFA, I think he, not Panarin has the best shot of ending up here.

He’s a riskier proposition, but one that makes a ton more sense.

Part of me would love to see him here, I love the player. The more rational part of me knows that committing the money and term he would require is a massive, massive risk and unnecessary.

How does Karlsson make more sense?

 

[EdJovanovski]

I think the eternal rebuild is an awful idea and has never worked. If you have the chance to bring in elite talent like Panarin at that age with little NHL mileage, or arguably generational talent like Karlsson; you take it.

 

[Leetch3]

I think the eternal rebuild is an awful idea and has never worked. If you have the chance to bring in elite talent like Panarin at that age with little NHL mileage, or arguably generational talent like Karlsson; you take it.

if only there was some kind of middle ground between go for it now and rebuild for the rest of eternity

 

[Edge]

I think the eternal rebuild is an awful idea and has never worked. If you have the chance to bring in elite talent like Panarin at that age with little NHL mileage, or arguably generational talent like Karlsson; you take it.

Why is there this concept of an eternal rebuild with the Rangers?

Like why can't it just be a rebuild. An actual, natural, rebuild.

It's not a two option question with the only choices being eternal rebuild or free agent bonanza.

 

[Edge]

if only there was some kind of middle ground between go for it now and rebuild for the rest of eternity

 

[RGY]

Why is there this concept of an eternal rebuild with the Rangers?

Like why can't it just be a rebuild. An actual, natural, rebuild.

It's not a two option question with the only choices being eternal rebuild or free agent bonanza.

Why cant we rebuild and add a free agent or two when we see fit?

We have added a plethora of 1st round picks. We are going to add more. Adding Panarin doesnt stop the rebuild. It just ruins many here’s dream to tank on purpose which is by no means a “natural rebuild”

 

[Edge]

Why cant we rebuild and add a free agent or two when we see fit?

We have added a plethora of 1st round picks. We are going to add more. Adding Panarin doesnt stop the rebuild. It just ruins many here’s dream to tank on purpose which is by no means a “natural rebuild”

I'm okay with adding a free agent or two.

I'm not nearly as thrilled when the free agent or two we're considering will require an 8 figure salary, a movement clause, and a more than half-decade commitment. I'm also have concerns that that level of commitment changes the inherent approach of what we're trying to do.

I mean, we can make a statement about signing free agents and interpret it either way, but there's just a teeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeny bit of difference in the context.

And neither of those two concepts still have anything to do with an "eternal rebuild."

And the reasons for the concerns about Panarin have been widely expressed and beaten to death, and no they are not just about dreams of tanking, and I know you know that.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Adding Panarin hurts what looks like will be their BEST chance at drafting their own home grown star. They have a reasonable to pretty good chance to do that this year but this roster, untouched, is bottom 3 bad for 2019-20.

We need our own stars who we can control and will play all of their best years here. Not someone who will likely be heading out of his prime by the time every one else catches up (if they catch up.)

How does Karlsson make more sense?

His position is 100000000% more difficult to fill.

Plus we're talking about a really good player (Panarin) vs the best player at his position in this generation (EK.) The risks are valid and why I would stay away but if I had to pick one or the other, the choice is pretty simple for me.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

Why cant we rebuild and add a free agent or two when we see fit?

We have added a plethora of 1st round picks. We are going to add more. Adding Panarin doesnt stop the rebuild. It just ruins many here’s dream to tank on purpose which is by no means a “natural rebuild”

Not all 1st round picks are the same value, so saying they added a plethora of them doesn’t really mean anything

 

[Mikos87]

So do I.

I think he stays in San Jose. If he does make it to UFA, I think he, not Panarin has the best shot of ending up here.

He’s a riskier proposition, but one that makes a ton more sense.

Part of me would love to see him here, I love the player. The more rational part of me knows that committing the money and term he would require is a massive, massive risk and unnecessary.

So would I, but they aren't signing me either

Although I see the big time risks, part of me would love to see this simply because I love the player and seeing him on my team would rule.

Gut instinct; and I've felt this way since 2015 or so I always thought he was going to end up in NY. I think Karlsson fits New York like a glove. He started off poorly for maybe the first 10-15 games, but has been spectacular since. San Jose's goaltending is in the bottom 5th of the league, and they've played lights out since a .500 start in Oct/Nov.

There is risk, but the player imo will age better than Panarin. It's the Rangers issue with giving term and money to older defensemen that's been problematic, that's not a Karlsson issue.

He can stay in SJ and be very solid there, but NY would be a great fit for him. The guy earns a ton of respect around the league, and the Rangers need a leader. He fills that void too. But signing him means buying out one of Smith or Shatts, and the Rangers are cap crippled by their defense.

 

[Edge]

Not all 1st round picks are the same value, so saying they added a plethora of them doesn’t really mean anything

I prefer the word "gaggle."

As in, we have a gaggle of prospects.

I also prefer calling our prospects "maybe babies." It sounds nicer.

Finally, we should borrow a gaming term and call max contract free agents "whales."

So let the debate resume about whether we should bring in a whale to lead our gaggle of maybe babies.

 

[DanielBrassard]

Adding Panarin hurts what looks like will be their BEST chance at drafting their own home grown star. They have a reasonable to pretty good chance to do that this year but this roster, untouched, is bottom 3 bad for 2019-20.

We need our own stars who we can control and will play all of their best years here. Not someone who will likely be heading out of his prime by the time every one else catches up (if they catch up.)



His position is 100000000% more difficult to fill.

Plus we're talking about a really good player (Panarin) vs the best player at his position in this generation (EK.) The risks are valid and why I would stay away but if I had to pick one or the other, the choice is pretty simple for me.

I might agree that it is tougher to fill his position, but I also think it's easier to win with a mediocre defense than it is with a mediocre forward group so I would rather add up front. If the choice was between 1 of them.

 

[wafflepadsave]

I'm in the rebuild camp.

I think the 2017-2020 drafts are going to make or break the next ten years or so.

I'm keen on keeping, the prospects, the entry levels, and Lemieux, ADA, Buch, Georgiev, Zbad.

Everyone else is on the table. If any deals come up which can return a higher ceiling prospect, or a pick that could be used on such, even if by moving up, I'd be all ears.

Me too! I am enjoying this process as long as we feel they’re making good decisions.

 

[wafflepadsave]

Just speculation by Friedman: But he thinks Karlsson would love playing for the Rangers.

And I hope Friedman has lost his ever living mind!

 

[wafflepadsave]

So would I, but they aren't signing me either

They’re looking at a PTO for you next season!

 

[LaffyTaffy]

If EK65 makes it to UFA and Rangers have interest then that signing happens 10/10 times I have been saying it since the trade to SJS. Hank and EK65 are very close friends and have always loved playing together for Sweden and wanted to play together in the NHL. If the opportunity presents itself especially with Dolan being the owner of the team, it will happen. I think the NYR prefer Panarin, but if they can find a way to get both i legitimately think Gorton makes it happen.

 

[RangerBoy]

These guys never stop with Karlsson. The guys in Canada still think Lundqvist is still Lundqvist. You watch Lundqvist and he has trouble getting up after making a save. He struggles to get back on his feet.

Karlsson is looking for $12M AAV. $84M.

Are you f***ing kidding me and people here think that's a good idea?

The only thing on the minds of Erik Karlsson and Jake Gardiner as they work their way back from injuries is getting healthy for a potential Stanley Cup run this spring.

But in the not-too-distant future the lasting impact of those injuries could play a role in free agency, with Karlsson, Gardiner and Tyler Myers the most significant 20-something defencemen set to hit the open market on July 1.

Karlsson is the jewel of the bunch, but has played just 13 games since Jan. 1 because of a nagging groin issue. At least he’s been skating recently. Assuming he doesn’t sign an extension with San Jose, his market is expected to be in the neighbourhood of a $12-million AAV on a seven-year deal — serious coin that will require the buyer to feel confident he’s healthy.

Beyond Headlines: Maple Leafs in most critical juncture of Babcock era - Sportsnet.ca

You guys are gluttons for punishment.

The same shit with Karlsson last season. Elliotte had them signing every free agent and trading for Karlsson. Then he said after checking with the Rangers, they are sticking with their plan. #Journalism

 

[Mikos87]

↑

Who didn't see that coming?

 

[Ola]

There are many cliches, but I think it’s true that players don’t really make decisions before the season is over.

I am sure we are on many short lists at this point, but would someone like Karlsson even want to come here? Think they are staying in SJ...

 

[Off Sides]

Me too! I am enjoying this process as long as we feel they’re making good decisions.

We've seen Chytil, Buch, ADA, Georgiev, I'd say even Lemieux all take pretty big steps here and there, if they become more consistent they are going to be pretty good players.

If that also happens with say Lias, Howden, Hajek, etc, that adds even more.

Rykov, Shesterkin

Kravtsov, Miller, Lundkvist, etc

Plus the 2019 and 2020 drafts

That may all add up to a pretty darn good team.

Once much of that matures over the next two/three seasons, and they know what they are missing, if they remain flexible they'll have the cap space and assets to go after things by signing or trade as well as make the right extension choices out of their stockpiling.

I actually think that would be a pretty good plan.

Come out of whatever happens with the CBA and expansion, with a young NHL team, a really nice prospect pool, and tons of flexibility.

In the mean time just try to keep them playing hard, don't focus too much on wins and loses, and let the chips more or less fall where they may.

 

[DaBadGuy7]

I think the eternal rebuild is an awful idea and has never worked. If you have the chance to bring in elite talent like Panarin at that age with little NHL mileage, or arguably generational talent like Karlsson; you take it.

I can easily retort when has a big time FA acquisition the Rangers have gotten the last 20 years made a true impact. Gaborik is probably the only one I can say had a solid impact during this Rangers tenure. I think acquiring FA like Panarin or Karlsson should be used to be the piece to get a young, emerging team (e.g. Pittsburgh after 08, Chicago after 09) to become a contender. To me, Panarin and/or Karlsson would be a classic Sather move where you sending a message of trying to make the playoffs where the roster isn’t close to ready. I feel like next season should be the year where Chytil, Andersson, Hajek, Howden, Lindgren, etc, take another big step in their development. All Panarin and EK would go imo should put the Rangers back where they were post 2015, a borderline WC team at best that has no chance of winning a playoff series. I rather be suffer another top 5 lottery finish with developing prospects than being very mediocre team with big FA signings.

 

[Ola]

The NHL is entering into a new phase.

NHL players come in generations. Changes in the game and more job positions — creates — NHL stars. I don’t have track of the WHA/NHL ‘merger’ era, but I from afar that looked like a significant new era.

But I followed this league somewhat at least when the eastern block fell, the NHL game changed a lot with a ton of new Euros joining the league, more E-W hockey, the early-mid 90s expansion and so forth. There is an endless amount of mega stars drafted between like 89-91. Lindros, Bure, Federov, Forsberg, Jagr, Sundin, Lidstrom — I am sure I am forgetting a bunch of guys.

Add roughly 15 years to that generation, and you get the next one with those 03’-05’ drafts. Crosby, AO, Malkin and so forth. Some hold the 03’ draft to be one of the deepest ever. The game changed a lot after the 05’ lockout. So many vets didn’t play in this league after the first year after the lockout, they couldn’t keep up. Ton of openings. Changes in the game. More job positions up for grabs. The Bure/Forsberg/Lindros generation was done.

The last 3 Stanley Cups have been won by that generation peak drafted around 03-05. Sid, Malkin and AO. Sooner rather than later it’s time for new guys and teams to take over. McDavid, Matthews and co.

New teams will start to feel pressure to win the Cup. It hasn’t happened yet, nobody has been talking about Cup or Bust in Toronto, Winnipeg and those type of franchises. They will have windows that are open longer, but they need to start to make some serious noise in the POs and they need win it during the coming years.

I think we will start to see a little more action the coming years as these franchises start to feel more and more pressure.