Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XVIII

[Good Intentions]

What you describe is a finished product whereas earlier you said you didn't expect him to be a finished product

No, I said ‘better’ - What I see now is marginal in those areas.

 

[FireGerardGallant]

and PS - the medal toss was really odd to me. I didn’t interpret it as firey or competitive, I thought it was forced and immature.

Lol its a year later get over it dude

 

[Good Intentions]

Lol its a year later get over it dude

Lol yeaaah it’s soooo last year, just let Lias score maann.

 

[FireGerardGallant]

Lol yeaaah it’s soooo last year, just let Lias score maann.

Caring about the medal toss still is just stupid
get over it

 

[Rongomania]

Caring about the medal toss still is just stupid
get over it

Scumbag kid is such a loser. #4thliner4life #pierrewasrightwhenhesaidhedbejesperfast

 

[Good Intentions]

Caring about the medal toss still is just stupid
get over it

It was certainly a stupid (and nationally embarrassing) act on Lias’ part.

Back to the original point, this kid doesn’t exactly have medal-caliber skill. He ought to hold on to silver - or any form.

Hope he improves.

 

[Inferno]

The thing I'm most concerned with lias is his balance...he falls.....alllllll the time. He gets hit..he falls down, he makes a hard turn, he falls down. I'm not sure I'd it's happened the last 2 games but it sure seemed to happen a ton during games. Falling for no reason. Uses to happen to Jimmy vesey a ton his first full year too. Less so now.

 

[Richard Banger]

Gaboriks worst full-season points total with us was more than Nash’s best. Then he became Zibanejad (via brassard). Plus he cost less. Next.

Rick Nash also played a 2way Defensive game while also putting up 42 goals.

 

[RangerBoy]

A microcosm of the Rangers dilemma

Their leading goal-scorer is Chris Kreider, who has 17 and is on pace for what would be a career-high 40. That’s good. But Ovechkin has 29 goals already, and 12 others have 20 or more. Kreider is tied for 18th-most goals in the league. Their leading scorers are Mika Zibanejad and Kevin Hayes, who have 30 points each. Ten players in the league have more assists than they have points.

Rangers' lack of goal-scoring has become a problem

Their top dogs are good enough in comparison with the other teams best players.

The trading deadline is approaching fast.

Christmas has come. New Year's day is coming. There are only 27 games left. The Rangers will play 13 of them before the All Star break in three weeks.

The season is approaching it's 4th month.

Zuccarello has 3 goals in 22 games. He is on pace for 9 goals. The Rangers need for him to pick up the pace so they can trade him.

 

[Trxjw]

From my POV the problem is that there is no market. To get a great return you must get a bidding war or have options (do nothing/wait).

Stepan returned what he returned since you had a GM really wanting a center. McD never built up the same demand from a GM. The Miller/Names part was probably just bad pro scouting.

Teams will take notice of Hayes play right now. With that said — you must be a little lucky and find a couple of GMs really wanting that center bad and being desperate about it. If you don’t, then Gorts will get a late 1st and a B tier prospect.

There's always a market. It might not be the strongest market when all things come to a head, but there's still a market. Now I have a hard time seeing a weak market for a 26 y/o center that is 6'5, plays all situations, and is having the best season of his career.

The McDonagh trade was almost exactly what some of us expected based on the Yandle trade. The Stepan trade was similar to what a lot of us expected he would get as well; I.e. something similar to Carter to Columbus. I don't want to crush anyone's hopes and dreams, but with folks already trying to figure out how Hayes is getting us Makar or the Ottawa pick I think a lot of people are going to be sorely disappointed. That disappointment is going to set an unrealistic bar for Gorton to clear as well. Deep down everyone wants our Erat for Forsberg or Hall for Larsson, but setting that as the expectation is just crazy.

 

[Richard Banger]

I do miss having star offensive talent. We haven't had a 70 point scorer since Gaborik in 2012.

Rick Nash put up 69 points in a season with us... guess he's not a 70 point scorer

 

[Shesterkybomb]

The Lias bashing is pretty premature and also unwarranted. Hes a kid making his way into the nhl, barely played any games, cut him some slack, Rome wasnt built in a day.

 

[Avery16]

Rick Nash also played a 2way Defensive game while also putting up 42 goals.

Yep he scored 42 goals in a year that we didn’t win the cup, and then scored about half as much or fewer in all the others while choking our cap space and not out producing Gaborik ever.

Nash was defensive, but most seasons that did not make him two-way. Just defensive, and making a LOT of money to forecheck/backcheck.

 

[Trxjw]

I wish beat writers would stop pretending like the rebuild isn't happening, or at least learn how to cover one. "Rangers need to start scoring more to stay in the playoff race???" They're fewer points from dead last in the NHL than they are the last wildcard spot. They're going to ship off more players over the next two months. They're picking top-10 in the draft in June. I've been getting better opinion pieces on the Rangers for free on this board for 10 years than I have from any publication out there.

 

[NernieBichols]

I agree. I think Hayes has been underrated a long time. He has done really well, performed despite tough roles. I don’t quite get the contract year talk.

Scoring is always very up and down. Just take any long term NHLer and look at their career stats, it’s up and down a lot from year to year. Sure Hayes can score a lot this year and then less next year. But I don’t get the talk that he wouldn’t be worth investing in. Gorts probably laid a pretty big egg not reupping Hayes on a long term deal last summer. Even if the right path is to trade him — he would have been more valuable.

I am also getting pretty tired of the ‘how could Gorts possibly know’ X or Y or whatever. Like you say — it’s hardly a big surprise. And it’s Gorts job to know. You and me and everyone else should be baffled at how Gorts could call stuff and make the right calls always. One thing is extremely sure, we are never even remotely winning a cup without a GM that ace these type of calls.

Ok. I’ve seen this mentioned a bunch, yet continually ignored, and used against gorton.

Hayes would NOT sign long term last summer bc he couldn’t get any trade protection until next season. Hayes ask on a long term deal was probably astronimical bc he wasnt gonna open himself up to being traded at the front end of a long term deal. So that’s why a deal couldn’t be reached. Bc Hayes was only taking a one year deal.

Guys trying to marinate gorton for the grill need to find some other sauce. This one just makes you look like you don’t get it from Hayes POV which was obviously the determining factors.
Can’t sign a guy long term if he won’t sign long term bc he contractually can’t have a NMC until this upcoming summer. Guy/agent knows his value for this year would entice bad teams to overbuy to get him in their organization before the clauses kick in, and Hayes is essentially signing himself into playing long term for whoever ponies up the most to the rangers in a trade. Hayes handlers know this. Ola you should too

 

[Richard Banger]

Yep he scored 42 goals in a year that we didn’t win the cup, and then scored about half as much or fewer in all the others while choking our cap space and not out producing Gaborik ever.

Nash was defensive, but most seasons that did not make him two-way. Just defensive, and making a LOT of money to forecheck/backcheck.

His stats say otherwise. But its whatever your entitled to your own opinion.

 

[bobbop]

I think we’ll know pretty quickly how the Hayes situation will work out. He can sign a new contract anytime after January 1. I will certainly admit his play has ramped up significantly this year and caused me to rethink whether he should be signed for the long term. Hays with a couple of good wingers has been a revelation. Enough to warrant a costly extension? I think the decision to resign Hayes also involves what is the future of Kreider and Mika. Keeping all three? Hmmmm...

 

[NernieBichols]

Hayes value as a rental should be about 1.5to 1.75x as much as nash’s. At their respective moments, Hayes is an ascending player who plays center, has become a shutdown matchup guy in the last years, and is putting up points at a staggering clip right now. Slot Hayes in as yourn3rd C, and he’s elite. Slot him in as your 2nd center and your on par with most teams your playing.

On a long term deal, Hayes has a lot of value to a team that truly thinks it’s an emerging contender who already has a #1c and a young C player/prospect they think will eventually and soon be the 2C. Bc Hayes than flanks the 2C until the younger guy is ready and then slots into his elite 3C and your team is super deal 1-3C. Colorado comes to mind. Boston is the place id love to see him go. Colorado Boston. If its about the money/hockey as opposed to living/cultural/geographical preferAnces for Hayes and they show him the money on an extension after working out a trade with the rangers, buffalo would be a great fit hockey wise. Winnipeg as a rental. If he makes it to FA could see Anaheim/LA making a play at him if they can free money.

I see Colorado/Boston/Buffalo/Winnipeg/maybe Dallas as the 5 teams who have/ should have the most interest

 

[egelband]

I wish beat writers would stop pretending like the rebuild isn't happening, or at least learn how to cover one. "Rangers need to start scoring more to stay in the playoff race???" They're fewer points from dead last in the NHL than they are the last wildcard spot. They're going to ship off more players over the next two months. They're picking top-10 in the draft in June. I've been getting better opinion pieces on the Rangers for free on this board for 10 years than I have from any publication out there.

I think there’s a lot of impatience out there. People and particularly journos want action. I know I do. But I’ve got no skin in the game and, well, I’m just a fan. It’s out of my hands. But I’m sure we all can understand the feeling. It’s a bit like Christmas for a kid.

 

[Fitzy]

Rick Nash put up 69 points in a season with us... guess he's not a 70 point scorer

We've only had around 4 players hit 60 points since that year as well.

It's no secret that top-level scorers for NYR have not been present since Jagr's decline. Gaborik was the one guy able to put up truly elite numbers.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Since Gaborik hit 70 points in 2011-12, the following teams have not had a player hitting a 70-point season

- Buffalo
- Montreal
- Detroit
- Carolina
- Nashville
- Arizona

We aren't the only ones. Sure, it's frustrating, but sometimes I feel people act as if we are the only team having this problem.

 

[Trxjw]

I think we’ll know pretty quickly how the Hayes situation will work out. He can sign a new contract anytime after January 1. I will certainly admit his play has ramped up significantly this year and caused me to rethink whether he should be signed for the long term. Hays with a couple of good wingers has been a revelation. Enough to warrant a costly extension? I think the decision to resign Hayes also involves what is the future of Kreider and Mika. Keeping all three? Hmmmm...

I'm hoping that Hayes' strong play will get a GM to jump the market and try to acquire him with an extension in place, or at least some quality pieces in place upon the condition he signs with them.

Hayes looks like the kind of player who can be an elite #2 behind a legitimate #1 for the next 3-4 years. The problem with signing him is it's very likely that the Rangers' window doesn't truly open up until year 3 or 4 of his next contract. I think that the play right now should be to roll the dice with the pieces you can get from him in a trade.

I'll keep saying it: My barometer for the rebuild right now is a situation where Kreider and Zibanjead are the veterans and your secondary scoring. Zibanejad and Howden as your 2/3 means you have an elite center up front. I think that should be the goal and to me re-signing Hayes means they're settling for depth instead of pushing the envelope when it's the ideal time to take calculated risks.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

I would think Hayes “should” bring back a little more than Nash but a little less than McD. Nash had the name but Hayes is younger, a C, and carries no movement restrictions while McD was a 1D-ish with a year remaining.

It’s a bit tough to suss out exactly what McD returned due to the Miller/Namestnikov aspect of the deal but I would expect Hayes to bring back a 1st and a B prospect minimum with the potential for more.

 

[Trxjw]

I think there’s a lot of impatience out there. People and particularly journos want action. I know I do. But I’ve got no skin in the game and, well, I’m just a fan. It’s out of my hands. But I’m sure we all can understand the feeling. It’s a bit like Christmas for a kid.

I think it's a product of covering NY sports teams. It's mostly about headlines and success and less about nuance and team building -- major free agent signings not withstanding.

 

[NY Lito]

Since Gaborik hit 70 points in 2011-12, the following teams have not had a player hitting a 70-point season

- Buffalo
- Montreal
- Detroit
- Carolina
- Nashville
- Arizona

We aren't the only ones. Sure, it's frustrating, but sometimes I feel people act as if we are the only team having this problem.

That’s some terrible company to be in.