Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XVIII

[DanielBrassard]

I think you may be right. Thinking about it, Friedman hasn’t really been on any Rangers stories. McKenzie is the guy whose been on the money for us.

Could just be a case of bad indo from Friedman.

Friedman wasn't the one who started the Panarin rumors though, it was Aaron Portzline. Could that be incorrect as well? Possible, but it's not just Friedman speculating on this.

 

[Mikos87]

Not Ranger related, but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Mathieu Perrault ends up in MTL come draft day.

 

[bobbop]

Kreider is the one player that keeps lingering in the back of my mind. Is he more valuable to the franchise moving forward, and if not, what would he actually return in a trade?

If I had the choice, I’d keep him. He’s been a consummate professional and it can’t be overstated how much he impacts games for us.

That’s a great question. It may depend on the potential return. Can it pass muster as a hockey trade?

 

[TheBloodyNine]

I like Elliot and I think he's very knowledgeable and certainly has connections but his role more and more these days is the "I wonder if..."/"Wouldn't it make sense..." guy instead of the Bobby Mac "This shit is about to go down!" type of guy.

 

[Ghost of jas]

I don’t think it’s about having the information. I think those guys view everything through the lens of what the Rangers have done in the past. I don’t think they believe the Rangers are going to have the patience to go through a true rebuilding process.

 

[Edge]

RB is looking to move everything out to help the rebuild, including @Edge to the Winnipeg board.

I’m kind of the McD of these boards.

I’m past my peak, but I’ve got a few good years left. Get the best return you can, before the wheels fall off.

I’ll do nicely in Winnipeg.

By myself.

Because my wife will have left me and taken the kids.

I’ll be back when they retire my avatar.

 

[Edge]

Hayes I understand and think that a deal likely could be done if a NMC wasn’t on the table.

I don’t see the Zucc thing at all.

 

[Edge]

I don’t think it’s about having the information. I think those guys view everything through the lens of what the Rangers have done in the past. I don’t think they believe the Rangers are going to have the patience to go through a true rebuilding process.

I think reporters, like a lot of fans, hate to be wrong — they are very self conscious about that. As a result, I see more hedging than I used to — especially in the social media age.

In this case, I think no wants to look like they were “fooled.” They want to leave just enough wiggle room so they can say, “I told you so” or act like they suspected a particular outcome the entire time.

 

[Mikos87]

And on a more serious note...I checked in with my Carolina contact today. He told me that a) Hurricanes confident they have a good relationship with Fox and can sign him, b) no interest in trading for a center, c) looking furiously for a scoring winger. He asked me if I thought the Rangers might move Kreider. I said dunno. More in a few days when I see him.

Their owner is getting antsy. They want a scorer badly, but don't have any NHL contribution from the Skinner deal. They traded what they needed and got back nothing to show for it, and the Lindholm and Hanafin trade doesn't look all that hot.

Waddell is a good trade partner if you know what I mean. If their owner is as antsy as he sounds ('We won't be drafting a defenseman in the 1st round as long as I'm here') then is he willing to take on salary. You can't be frugal and talk a big game. The Rangers don't have the type of scorer they're looking for, but really... they wanted to move out their former high picks because of cultural issues... which okay I get... but what did you get back for it?

Points in and points out, Waddell essentially went -45 to -55 with those deals. Goals in and goals out, you went at least -30.

So like I said, Waddell is a good trade partner.

 

[Mac n Gs]

That’s a great question. It may depend on the potential return. Can it pass muster as a hockey trade?

I’d really need to be blown away to move him. He could be a piece that easily puts a conpetitive team over the top with the size, speed, skill, and history of playoffs performance.

 

[Edge]

Kreider, like just about anyone, is in play for the right offer.

But he’s also one of those guys who the Rangers would set a high price on, which probably make Carolina an unlikely destination.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

Hayes I understand and think that a deal likely could be done if a NMC wasn’t on the table.

I don’t see the Zucc thing at all.

On Friedman’s podcast he said Hayes and the Rangers didn’t get close at all last summer, so I’m not sure they’ll get close a few months later

 

[bobbop]

I think that Krieder’s reputation is bigger than his results, Perhaps Carolina agrees with me.

He is reasonably priced for the next year and a half.

 

[Trxjw]

I’d really need to be blown away to move him. He could be a piece that easily puts a conpetitive team over the top with the size, speed, skill, and history of playoffs performance.

I'd want a major package as well. Carolina is a team that might be able to put that together though. They have a strong group of prospects and Necas as a centerpiece is a very good start.

Again though, it'd have to be an over payment for me to consider moving him at this point. I think the Canes will ultimately end up with a guy like Toffoli though.

 

[Mikos87]

Kreider is the one player that keeps lingering in the back of my mind. Is he more valuable to the franchise moving forward, and if not, what would he actually return in a trade?

If I had the choice, I’d keep him. He’s been a consummate professional and it can’t be overstated how much he impacts games for us.

The weeks long disappearing act is who he is. Guys here pointed it out during his BC days, and I saw it often during his AHL stint back in the day. I thought he was fantastic for a 25 game stretch last year, and a good part of this year.

IMO, he's not a keeper, but I wouldn't trade him in a pure futures deal... which is what he would go for if you moved him next season. I think he would be best served being moved in a hockey trade, but for a maybe a player whose a bit younger, but one that is consistent. Not to suggest that Kreider will decline. He's too gifted of an athlete where I fail to see the skating legs just go away. Not to suggest that Vegas or SJ would do make the deal, but if the return was an Alex Tuch or Timo Meier for Kreider, then would you not make that trade?

But realistically, he's on par with Tomas Hertl. He's SJ's Kreider. I think in a pure 1:1.... Ondrej Palat is a better player. Those two aren't the players that guys on here would move Kreider for. There's always been an attachment to this player by guys on here that's lingered past age 24 for Chris... which is really saying something.... cause if you go back through the years, there has never been an affinity for a draft pick that was homegrown that lingered this long. Usually people jump ship a few months before the bridge deal. But with Chris... that never happened.

If folks were to remove that attachment, and see thing objectively, he's a very nice piece whose shown glimpses that might get someone thinking he can do more. But those days are past by, and the team trading for him would need to bank on Chris showing full effort during the playoffs for a long run.

This is just my opinion, but realistically, you can get a Brayden Schenn for him if you wanted a guy that is going to produce more offense, and be able to fill a top 6 role. Whose not a bad player at all.... but one that doesn't fit what the Rangers are looking for.

 

[DutchShamrock]

If you trade with Carolina, you target defense and fill the biggest organizational holes. Then you are free to take the best overall packages for Hayes and Zuccarello without targeting position.

It's all contingent on being blown away but the combination of dundon and wadell can really get your imagination going.

 

[Mikos87]

If you trade with Carolina, you target defense and fill the biggest organizational holes. Then you are free to take the best overall packages for Hayes and Zuccarello without targeting position.

It's all contingent on being blown away but the combination of dundon and wadell can really get your imagination going.

Another team looking to make a move is ANA. They are cap-strapped, and also need defensive prospects which the Rangers can unload. Injuries have hammered them this year, but they're still winning. Gibson has been phenomenal. That's a team that can't compete in the UFA market... they just don't give out signing bonuses. Their owner owns one of the largest Semiconducter companies in the world. Plenty of money there, but they have internal cap constraints. ANA also happens to be one of the best drafting teams in recent history. (Yeah they are really good.. go back to 09 and see how many current NHLers they've produced).

Recently they've been on the trend of trading their young defense for forwards, but they can't do that anymore. They're 12 deep in the pros, and that includes 2 Lightning rejects and Luke Schenn.

They want forwards. I don't see a hockey trade there, but if it is prospects. Say

Terry/Comtois & a 1st.

And the Rangers sign Silfverberg as a UFA....

That's a golden return if somewhat convoluted.

 

[mike14]

We're not competing next season anyway so the most obvious solution is to trade Kreider for a big return based around a D-man and then re-sign him as FA in 18 months....

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Kreider when he skates all night is as effective as any winger I've seen here but he just coasts most of the night. I'm on the fence on him, I think I lean to keeping him as I think he is good to have around for the kids. I think of all the guys with the exception of Staal that Kreider has gotten a pass some nights that others arent getting from quinn and I think that points to the same thing as Staal where hes an important part of the leadership. I think he would fit into Winnipegs style well though.

 

[Roo Returns]

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I think defense is mostly covered in terms of prospects and the focus should be on skilled forwards who can score, or modern day grinders who can skate.

On D, K. Miller has pretty much established himself as the #1 prospect for that position, and then there's Lundkvist, Hajek, Lindgren, Rykov, Keane, Crawley, and also Ragnarson and Gross. I'm not counting guys like Day, Bigras, or Sjaalin. That's a lot of guys and I'm not so naive to think that everyone of them will suit up for the Rangers, but most will cross paths in the organization.

The only exception would be is if a stud is coming back in a much larger trade like a Dougie Hamilton or a Parankyo.

Rangers need to add talent up front. They need guys on ELC who can score, or tweeners in the style of Hagelin that can be elite sidekicks and drive play. We all have high hopes for Kravstov and adding Panarin would be dynamite along with a high #1 pick, but they need depth throughout the lineup. Need to develop or Hornqvist/Arvidson type badly. Closest they had to that recently was Petr Prucha who scored 50 goals his first two years in the league but wasn't durable enough to sustain that level of scoring.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

If you trade with Carolina, you target defense and fill the biggest organizational holes. Then you are free to take the best overall packages for Hayes and Zuccarello without targeting position.

It's all contingent on being blown away but the combination of dundon and wadell can really get your imagination going.

Our biggest organizational holes are at wing imo. Outside of Kravtsov what do we have to add to this team? Atleast on D theres Hajek, Miller, Lundqvist, Gilmour,Lindgren and maybe Day if he pieces it together.

 

[Mikos87]

How do you guys feel about moving Names and Fast? Perhaps Vesey as well?

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

How do you guys feel about moving Names and Fast? Perhaps Vesey as well?

Depending on the return, absolutely.

But here’s the thing: what’re they going to fetch in exchange? We need to be talking a Grabner-like return, otherwise there’s no point in moving them.

 

[Roo Returns]

Our biggest organizational holes are at wing imo. Outside of Kravtsov what do we have to add to this team? Atleast on D theres Hajek, Miller, Lundqvist, Gilmour,Lindgren and maybe Day if he pieces it together.

Haha great minds think alike! But I agree, up front you have the following prospects not playing in the NHL.

Kravstov, Barron, and Gettinger. We all want the first to become a top tier player. Barron could be the Rangers version of Anders Lee but that's not a guarantee. And Gettinger if he continues to develop will most likely be a solid bottom six winger who makes his living with board work opening up space for speedy players.

After that there are three "hope" prospects and that's it. Virta and Pajniemi are both skilled but we don't know how they will perform here. And Riley Hughes is a very longterm project who even if he scores a lot in college, will have a similar battle to what Ty Ronning is struggling with now to make the NHL.

That's it. Need more. a very shallow pool up front and notice how I have not included any of Chytil/Anderson/Howden as they are with the big club.

In terms of Virta and Pajuniemi especially, we don't know how they will develop and even now their scoring isn't indicative of what players they can become. Remember at one point Fast was tearing it up in the SEL and he's a 30+ point role player in the NHL. Lindberg is struggling to regain his game after surgery. Hagelin I remember was supposed to be a John Madden type elite checker with practically no offense. His game turned out to be much more unique at the highest level.

 

[Roo Returns]

How do you guys feel about moving Names and Fast? Perhaps Vesey as well?

Fast in my opinion is a dark horse to be moved. He's had a lot of success in the playoffs and can really help a bottom six and play top six if injuries pile up. Him/Stepan/Kreider was a nice line in 2015.

Remember earlier I stated he's going to price himself out of NY and the hope is Virta or Paju take over his role.

I don't see Gorton calling other GMs saying "Would you want Jesper Fast?" it's more of a case of being open for business and other GMs asking Gorton about him.

His cap hit for what he brings is dynamite and it would be two playoff runs. He's easily worth what Grabner brought back a second + a decent to good prospect or another high pick (another second or a third).

I don't want to see him go but I don't think they're giving him a Roussell/Beagle/Komarov type deal which would exceed $3 million.