Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XVII - Want some, get some

[DanielBrassard]

As a buy low UFA sure.

 

[NYSPORTS]

He wants to play and he wants to stay here. It's as simple as that. If the Rangers take that option away from him and he still wants to play, of course he's going to go to a team where he has a chance to win. He'd be stupid not to. That doesn't mean he should have accepted a trade when playing for a contender wasn't his first choice. Your take is absolutely ridiculous.

My take is taking care of the kids and wishing a well paid veteran would recognize his time should be up. JD was quoted saying he has to have a heart to heart with Hank so I find it hard to believe everybody but he sees the writing on the wall. Sounds like you’re endorsing the guy regardless. Fan of Staal too?

 

[RGY]

Great point by Quinn here. But this isn’t just his view, this is the Organization’s position.

 

[GAGLine]

My take is taking care of the kids and wishing a well paid veteran would recognize his time should be up. JD was quoted saying he has to have a heart to heart with Hank so I find it hard to believe everybody but he sees the writing on the wall. Sounds like you’re endorsing the guy regardless. Fan of Staal too?

I'm a fan of players making the choices that they have earned.

 

[NYSPORTS]

I'm a fan of players making the choices that they have earned.

good for you. I’m a fan of the Rangers

 

[RGY]

I'm a fan of players making the choices that they have earned.

Dont even bother trying to explain the reasons to him/her. Waste of time.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Any interested in him? Not clear what the price would be.

In the 2nd round of the 2010 draft? Most definitely. Now? Not so much.

 

[Leetch3]

no doubt the rangers aren't happy about it. but there is also no indication that he belongs anywhere near the NHL right now...so unless he changed his mind and is willing to play in hartford now, not sure what options we have.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Great point by Quinn here. But this isn’t just his view, this is the Organization’s position.

Not for nothing, but what else was he supposed to say?

They're icing the youngest roster in the league and still have some massive, massive holes. There are an astonishing amount of 1st or 2nd year full time players on this team (Kakko, Chytil, Fox, Lindgren, Hajek, Lemieux, Howden, Georgiev kind of, thats 8/22.) Haley, Smith, Hank and Deadweight are the only 4 players over the age of 30.

Quinn had a similar stance last year. I mean it's more realistic this year, but these quotes are just lip service.

 

[wolfgaze]

I believe strongly that under no circumstances can't the Rangers organization afford to trade away one of Georgiev or Shesterkin simply because they have to accommodate the final year of a soon to be departing (or retired) Lundqvist... That would be an extremely short-sighted move and very poor asset management.

If the Rangers communicate to Henke that they plan to utilize him in a 'backup' role next season in order to give more playing time to one of the younger goaltenders, and Henke decides he still wants to play out his final year - then the Rangers may need to get creative with regards to convincing one of the younger goaltenders to play the season in the AHL... That seems like it would be Shesterkin at this point - as it wouldn't be fair to send Georgiev down who has already established that he can compete at the NHL level and has been doing so...

But who knows how Shesterkin would react if they asked him to play another season for the Wolfpack...

What I'm wondering is this... If it turns out that Lundqvist will end up playing for the Rangers next season - the Rangers may need to get creative with regards to managing this goaltendering predicament... I haven't checked the contract circumstances - but could the Rangers brass find a way to financially compensate (reward) one of the players (likely Shesterkin) for doing the organization a favor and agreeing to play an additional season in the AHL? I'm not talking about a direct payment but something along the lines of, "We'll offer to tack on an extra $2-3 million to your next contract extension...".... Something along those lines - and in a year (or years) where the Rangers have the extra cap space to work with...

I think there's a huge difference between, "Hey could you please do a favor and play in the AHL next season" versus incentivizing the player with a multi-million dollar payout for helping out the organization while it was in a temporary bind... If the Rangers have the cap space and the financial capital to do it - I'm of the opinion that you offer whatever it takes to get the job done and keep both goaltenders retained through next season... Then we'll be able to give both young players significant playing time and really find out what we have on our hands (at the NHL level)... Georgiev could end up proving to be the better goaltender (or vice versa)... We could even find out that we have two #1 goaltenders on our hands - and then one of them becomes a huge trading chip...

 

[bobbop]

Great point by Quinn here. But this isn’t just his view, this is the Organization’s position.

When I was negotiating minor league agreements with WHA GMs, this came up with every team. They wanted to know my plan to win since they weren’t supplying the whole roster. I got a great education on the importance of winning in the development of young players from Jack Kelley and John Ferguson Sr.

 

[Barnaby]

I remember reading that the Lindbom pick was one the Benny was really happy with, but I don't recall anything specific saying he pushed for it. If they did draft him because of Allaire that absurd, as the goalies we have drafted in the last 15 years are all trash.

They have a long list of forgettable goaltending picks between Hank and Shestyorkin, yet they keep going back to the well. I can’t figure it out for the life of me. Yet, they’ve done very well with undrafted free agents. I’m all for rolling the dice with a late pick, but they’ve used a ton of premium picks from Montoya to Halverson and plenty in between.

 

[Barnaby]

They word was that BA was excited when they made the pick but I doubt that he asked them to pick him at that spot.

I feel like they throw that out all the time just to help solidify their picks to the fan base. I wouldn’t be surprised if BA never saw the kid play.

 

[bobbop]

If the Rangers emerge in a year or two with two young bona fide number one goaltenders, that’s the hockey equivalent of winning the lottery. It could prestage a major trade or perhaps a very good job share for a couple of years. Just look across the river at how important goaltending (or lack therof) is to a rebuilding team.

 

[Cag29]

Right before the draft I had Kravy, Miller and Wilde as a dream scenario in the 1st. It sucked a lot not to get Wilde there. The kid is doing well.

Lundqvist is a fine pick at 28

 

[NYR Viper]

I keep mentioning this but it’s very important, Tyler Wallis a senior in the NCAA. He can walk himself to UFA. If the Rangers must move a goalie in order to create room for him, a guy with sterling numbers in a good league, so he will sign with the Rangers they may need to. Losing a prospect like Wall for nothing would suck.

 

[Barnaby]

I keep mentioning this but it’s very important, Tyler Wallis a senior in the NCAA. He can walk himself to UFA. If the Rangers must move a goalie in order to create room for him, a guy with sterling numbers in a good league, so he will sign with the Rangers they may need to. Losing a prospect like Wall for nothing would suck.

I find it hard to believe a sought after goalie prospect whose a UFA would want to sign here. The Rangers potentially could have two bonafide starters in their mid-20s blocking your path.

That’s potentially a lot longer path to the NHL which means a lot less money. Forget Henrik, he’d still be behind Georgyiev, Shestyorkin, and Huska to start out. I also hate to let Wall walk.

 

[GAGLine]

What I'm wondering is this... If it turns out that Lundqvist will end up playing for the Rangers next season - the Rangers may need to get creative with regards to managing this goaltendering predicament... I haven't checked the contract circumstances - but could the Rangers brass find a way to financially compensate (reward) one of the players (likely Shesterkin) for doing the organization a favor and agreeing to play an additional season in the AHL? I'm not talking about a direct payment but something along the lines of, "We'll offer to tack on an extra $2-3 million to your next contract extension...".... Something along those lines - and in a year (or years) where the Rangers have the extra cap space to work with...

They can't do that. Even though they wouldn't be doing it to keep the cap down, it would still be considered circumvention. Teams aren't allowed to make any deals with promises for future payment.

I suppose there could be a gray area there. The team could imply that he will be well compensated in the future without giving actual numbers, but it's a dangerous line to toe, and I'm not sure Shesty would willingly play another whole year in the AHL based on a vague promise.

 

[Mikos87]

I believe strongly that under no circumstances can't the Rangers organization afford to trade away one of Georgiev or Shesterkin simply because they have to accommodate the final year of a soon to be departing (or retired) Lundqvist... That would be an extremely short-sighted move and very poor asset management.

If the Rangers communicate to Henke that they plan to utilize him in a 'backup' role next season in order to give more playing time to one of the younger goaltenders, and Henke decides he still wants to play out his final year - then the Rangers may need to get creative with regards to convincing one of the younger goaltenders to play the season in the AHL... That seems like it would be Shesterkin at this point - as it wouldn't be fair to send Georgiev down who has already established that he can compete at the NHL level and has been doing so...

But who knows how Shesterkin would react if they asked him to play another season for the Wolfpack...

What I'm wondering is this... If it turns out that Lundqvist will end up playing for the Rangers next season - the Rangers may need to get creative with regards to managing this goaltendering predicament... I haven't checked the contract circumstances - but could the Rangers brass find a way to financially compensate (reward) one of the players (likely Shesterkin) for doing the organization a favor and agreeing to play an additional season in the AHL? I'm not talking about a direct payment but something along the lines of, "We'll offer to tack on an extra $2-3 million to your next contract extension...".... Something along those lines - and in a year (or years) where the Rangers have the extra cap space to work with...

I think there's a huge difference between, "Hey could you please do a favor and play in the AHL next season" versus incentivizing the player with a multi-million dollar payout for helping out the organization while it was in a temporary bind... If the Rangers have the cap space and the financial capital to do it - I'm of the opinion that you offer whatever it takes to get the job done and keep both goaltenders retained through next season... Then we'll be able to give both young players significant playing time and really find out what we have on our hands (at the NHL level)... Georgiev could end up proving to be the better goaltender (or vice versa)... We could even find out that we have two #1 goaltenders on our hands - and then one of them becomes a huge trading chip...

They can offer Shesty a one way extension this upcoming July.

Lock him up, let him play in Russia on a loan next year if he wants more money for next year.

The one way deal kicks in the following year when Hank is off the books.

I'm not sure if I see Gorts and Co making a move like this.

 

[Kupo]

ShouldHaveUsedGravesRightAV

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Graves was never given a fair shot here but that’s more on management than the coaching

They were more interested in seeing what Rob O’Gara could do evidently

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

MovingRyanWasAGraveMistakeJeff

 

[eco's bones]

Great point by Quinn here. But this isn’t just his view, this is the Organization’s position.

The other point here is if they were to make the playoffs you have 8 regular players 21 years old or younger seeing themselves as part of something good--a team that can compete with the rest of the league. It's reward for the work and progress they have made and it's a big deal and not only helps them build for next year but the next wave of prospects to make it join these guys who are relatively the same age and it helps them fit in with this wave who are more than less their peers.

.....so I wouldn't expect the Rangers to pull up short if they think they have a realizable chance of making the playoffs. Strome for instance moves if they think their playoff chances are a long shot. He doesn't if they think they can make it.

To go further the Rangers have top end forward talent now in Panarin and Zibanejad.....and Kakko hopefully in years to come. They have a defense that often has issues defending but are top notch at attacking. The combination of top end forward talent with creative offensive D pretty much means are offense is going to at least be good. Getting better at defending is one issue--getting better bottom line forward depth might be another thing to work on. The goaltending now and into the future looks great--it's also a gnarly team that doesn't back off from physical play or confrontation.......so to me a lot of the elements that go into making a good team are already bearing fruit.

All that said it's a very young team and sometimes inexperience is going to cost. There's still a lot to learn about winning and winning when it counts the most.

 

[Edge]

Boy, the revisionism on Ryan Graves is interesting to read.

 

[Leetch3]

another way to look at the ryan graves situation is that this is a perfect example of why guys are willing to sign here. the rangers could have held graves hostage in hartford as depth just in case, but instead they did right by him and gave him an opportunity that he wasn't getting here.