Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XLII Time for Curtis Lazar?

[Thirty One]

Don't speak to soon. Next thing you know...

and.... Pittsburgh player tests positive.

 

[UnSandvich]

That's not a sucker punch IMO. Jarnkrok knew something was coming and he was kind of trying to run away from it and Jarnkrok wasn't all that innocent there---that's a drive by kind of hit and he did it to the wrong guy and Jarnkrok had time to defend himself in some way. You don't know the effect of the hit on Haley either. Dazed momentarily?--instant headache from getting his head rammed into the glass? Fat lip or broken tooth off the dasher? He got up madder than a hornet. You hit a hornet's nest with a stick expect to be stung and it's not the hornet's fault.

A hornet does not possess the brain of a human being. Haley does. Haley still sucker-punched him. By your post, I take it you also think Todd Bertuzzi is completely innocent with regards to sucker punching Steve Moore, and everything that came after?

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

and.... Pittsburgh player tests positive.

720 players
100+ behind the bench
arena personnel
TV crews

Do they really think they can have this post season without any infections?

So, here's my conundrum

Stanley Cup final, game 7. A team's player tests positive, but is feeling good enough to play. Are we seriously supposed to believe the team doctor will release the info and take out the team's best chance at winning a Cup?

 

[eco's bones]

A hornet does not possess the brain of a human being. Haley does. Haley still sucker-punched him. By your post, I take it you also think Todd Bertuzzi is completely innocent with regards to sucker punching Steve Moore, and everything that came after?

Moore had no chance to defend himself. Jarnkrok did. Neither did Haley have a vendetta against Jarnkrok. That whole episode begins with Jarnkrok ramming Haley's head into the glass. Stop acting like Jarnkrok was some innocent because he wasn't. Again you don't know the effect of the hit Jarnkrok made on Haley. If your head had been rammed into the glass you might have an entirely different take.

We're obviously not going to agree but if you want an example of what I think is a sucker punch it would be what Sean Avery did to Ladislav Smid. I loved Avery as a Ranger by the way and I didn't see him as a dirty player either but I did not like what he did to Smid. Smid challenged him. Avery didn't take it up. Smid looked away and Avery belted him and Smid ended up concussed. That is the one thing that Sean Avery did in his time with the Rangers that I really did not like.

 

[NYR Viper]

Don't see the first happening as they just cannot afford the cap hit under that scenario. Don't see the second happening for reasons I have stated already as I do not think that Gorton is trading production for nothing but futures.

The Rangers can afford Eichel. Yes they need to get creative but it's possible

 

[UnSandvich]

Moore had no chance to defend himself. Jarnkrok did. Neither did Haley have a vendetta against Jarnkrok. That whole episode begins with Jarnkrok ramming Haley's head into the glass. Stop acting like Jarnkrok was some innocent because he wasn't. Again you don't know the effect of the hit Jarnkrok made on Haley. If your head had been rammed into the glass you might have an entirely different take.

We're obviously not going to agree but if you want an example of what I think is a sucker punch it would be what Sean Avery did to Ladislav Smid. I loved Avery as a Ranger by the way and I didn't see him as a dirty player either but I did not like what he did to Smid. Smid challenged him. Avery didn't take it up. Smid looked away and Avery belted him and Smid ended up concussed. That is the one thing that Sean Avery did in his time with the Rangers that I really did not like.

Jarnkrok didn't have to defend himself. You don't have to fight someone just because they're upset. A penalty was called on the play. Haley decided to take it a step further and sucker punch him. Nobody's saying Jarnkrok's innocent, but that is still a classic sucker punch to someone who's not fighting, or trying to defend himself. He's not even looking at Haley. That is a textbook sucker punch.

 

[Ola]

720 players
100+ behind the bench
arena personnel
TV crews

Do they really think they can have this post season without any infections?

So, here's my conundrum

Stanley Cup final, game 7. A team's player tests positive, but is feeling good enough to play. Are we seriously supposed to believe the team doctor will release the info and take out the team's best chance at winning a Cup?

Haha, if it is SCF G7 I recon all bets may be off. But G1? You bet.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Not to mention that Covid is definitely not a serious illness if you get top treatment from Day 1. NHL players would be tested regularly.

Risks are none. None.

There's more to it than just players. What about the hotel personnel where the players are staying? broadcasting crews, arena personnel?

 

[eco's bones]

Jarnkrok didn't have to defend himself. You don't have to fight someone just because they're upset. A penalty was called on the play. Haley decided to take it a step further and sucker punch him. Nobody's saying Jarnkrok's innocent, but that is still a classic sucker punch to someone who's not fighting, or trying to defend himself. He's not even looking at Haley. That is a textbook sucker punch.

I can remember spearing this guy---it was really an accident but my stick caught him high in the shoulder and it f***ing floored him and I can imagine the bruise he had on his shoulder afterwards because I've been speared before several times--had massive bruises too--luckily never a broken rib or fractured sternum. Basically we were penalty killing. I had the puck and he was coming right at me--I had it on my backhand and my idea was to pitchfork it up high and get it down the ice. I was gassed and I just wanted to get the puck down the ice. He never changed course (which is what I expected) and he ran right into my stick but the puck was already away and my play was right. I knew he was f***ing hurting and I apologized--said I didn't mean to hurt him but he was still pissed. Not blaming him for that--later on he hacked me good and as he was going by he said why---it's not like I didn't expect something though. I would have gone after him in other circumstances but I let it go. I respected him as a person and a player and it was a way for him to say that 'I didn't take that shit'--a self respect thing. To me this is all part of the culture of hockey. You do something and somehow it turns out f***ed up whether you're wrong or not be willing to pay for it.

 

[UnSandvich]

I can remember spearing this guy---it was really an accident but my stick caught him high in the shoulder and it f***ing floored him and I can imagine the bruise he had on his shoulder afterwards because I've been speared before several times--had massive bruises too--luckily never a broken rib or fractured sternum. Basically we were penalty killing. I had the puck and he was coming right at me--I had it on my backhand and my idea was to pitchfork it up high and get it down the ice. I was gassed and I just wanted to get the puck down the ice. He never changed course (which is what I expected) and he ran right into my stick but the puck was already away and my play was right. I knew he was f***ing hurting and I apologized--said I didn't mean to hurt him but he was still pissed. Not blaming him for that--later on he hacked me good and as he was going by he said why---it's not like I didn't expect something though. I would have gone after him in other circumstances but I let it go. I respected him as a person and a player and it was a way for him to say that 'I didn't take that shit'--a self respect thing. To me this is all part of the culture of hockey. You do something and somehow it turns out f***ed up whether you're wrong or not be willing to pay for it.

What does any of this have to do with Haley sucker-punching a dude b/c he was angry?

 

[Leetch3]

I don't like the tones I am hearing in relation to the NHL's return to play. One positive test and there is talk about pushing everything two months back.

who is talking about pushing it back? I think I missed some news lol

 

[Deleted member 23124]

Jarnkrok didn't have to defend himself. You don't have to fight someone just because they're upset. A penalty was called on the play. Haley decided to take it a step further and sucker punch him. Nobody's saying Jarnkrok's innocent, but that is still a classic sucker punch to someone who's not fighting, or trying to defend himself. He's not even looking at Haley. That is a textbook sucker punch.

I had to look this up because I thought I might be mistaken:

"Sucker punch definition is - to punch (a person) suddenly without warning and often without apparent provocation."

The punch was not without warning or provocation. Jarnkrok would be a fool not to know Haley was gonna throw a punch if he got to him. Haley got to him and punched him. Jarnkrok was looking at him.

 

[egelband]

I had to look this up because I thought I might be mistaken:

"Sucker punch definition is - to punch (a person) suddenly without warning and often without apparent provocation."

The punch was not without warning or provocation. Jarnkrok would be a fool not to know Haley was gonna throw a punch if he got to him. Haley got to him and punched him. Jarnkrok was looking at him.

This was covered pretty thoroughly in the thread following the incident. The consensus was that, though it’s not a traditional sucker punch, in hockey it’s dirty to hit a guy who is not willing to fight. So it’s kind of a “hockey sucker punch”. Personally I thought the original hit was worse and Jarnkrok deserved to get slugged.
Though two wrongs don’t make a right, we know hockey has a slightly skewed code.
But anyhow, as to my original question it doesn’t seem to me Haley is a dirty player. I would have him back as the 13th forward/elder statesman assuming there’s a cap crunch and they’re short on vets.

 

[Deleted member 23124]

This was covered pretty thoroughly in the thread following the incident. The consensus was that, though it’s not a traditional sucker punch, in hockey it’s dirty to hit a guy who is not willing to fight. So it’s kind of a “hockey sucker punch”. Personally I thought the original hit was worse and Jarnkrok deserved to get slugged.
Though two wrongs don’t make a right, we know hockey has a slightly skewed code.
But anyhow, as to my original question it doesn’t seem to me Haley is a dirty player. I would have him back as the 13th forward/elder statesman assuming there’s a cap crunch and they’re short on vets.

I can agree with the "dirty" consensus with regard to hitting someone who won't fight. I also don't think Haley is a dirty player.

 

[Avery16]

We're obviously not going to agree but if you want an example of what I think is a sucker punch it would be what Sean Avery did to Ladislav Smid. I loved Avery as a Ranger by the way and I didn't see him as a dirty player either but I did not like what he did to Smid. Smid challenged him. Avery didn't take it up. Smid looked away and Avery belted him and Smid ended up concussed. That is the one thing that Sean Avery did in his time with the Rangers that I really did not like.

Going to go ahead and step in and say no, Avery did not sucker punch Smid. Watch the reel:

Avery squares up, checks the refs a few times, and then engages. Maybe he didn’t ask Smid if he was ready, but Smid sees it coming, 100%. He has enough time to and does take a couple strides to try to evade Avery before the punch connects. That is not a sucker punch.

 

[Fitzy]

Matthew Barnaby and Theo Fleury were more my style of agitators than Avery. Guys that actually had friends in the locker room.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

Jarnkrok didn't have to defend himself. You don't have to fight someone just because they're upset. A penalty was called on the play. Haley decided to take it a step further and sucker punch him. Nobody's saying Jarnkrok's innocent, but that is still a classic sucker punch to someone who's not fighting, or trying to defend himself. He's not even looking at Haley. That is a textbook sucker punch.

If you smash someone’s head into the glass on a bad hit, you best be ready to defend yourself. Whether you chose to be or not is up to you entirely and effectively rules out the idea of a sucker punch. That being said, Haley shouldn’t sniff the playoff roster, would rather have another bubble guy like OReagan or Lettieri or Gettinger or Fogarty, Nieves, Kratvsov, take your pick.

 

[Avery16]

Matthew Barnaby and Theo Fleury were more my style of agitators than Avery. Guys that actually had friends in the locker room.

Except. Avery did have friends in the room.

I really like Barnaby and Fleury is one of my all-time favs. To say Fleury is ok but Avery had problems?? Fleury is likely one of Avery's role models.

 

[dshea19]

I don't like the tones I am hearing in relation to the NHL's return to play. One positive test and there is talk about pushing everything two months back.

This is from NYC, the hardest hit place in NA by far:
View attachment 348841

It boils down to 2 dead per 10 000 in the age category 44 or younger. If you take 10 000 individuals in the age cathegory 18-44 -- you will find a lot of people with -- severe -- riskfactors. A combination of obesity, auto immune diseases, all kind of pre-existing conditions. Cancer. Heavy radiation treatment.

So this is 2 of 10,000 if the NHL played in NYC during the midst of the worst pandemic.

Not to mention that Covid is definitely not a serious illness if you get top treatment from Day 1. NHL players would be tested regularly.

Risks are none. None.

Those numbers are still exaggerated. Lots of deaths labeled as covid-19 weren't from the virus. If people died of cancer, heart attack, stroke, etc, and they tested positive, they were labeled as a covid death. The death statistics are super inflated. Even in NY, they were hit harder because the governor mandated nursing homes to accept covid-19 positive patients. That was a disaster in itself.
This freak out about this virus has been wildly overblown. The average age of death has been 80, and even these deaths has other comorbidity issues. The actual number of deaths without any other health issues is around 5000 in the US. This, in statistical reality, doesn't even compare to a normal flu season.
Looking back at all the available data, there was never a reason to shut anything down.
Of course, this will be a super unpopular position. Years from now, medical professionals will look back at this as a textbook example of what not to do.

 

[Ola]

There's more to it than just players. What about the hotel personnel where the players are staying? broadcasting crews, arena personnel?

What about them? You think people can stay home all summer and will be forced back to work just because the NHL is returning? That its only necessary for farmers, to produce food, and doctors to work to make society run and the rest can stay home?

42 million have filed for unemployment in the US alone. In a few weeks it will be 45m (if it isn't already, they can't handle all applications). If there is any way for any business to be conducted without significant risk -- its everyone's effin duty to do so at this point in time, period.

BTW, entertainment is and will always be an important factor for society. It is not a "luxury" if anything can make people feel better. The cost in terms of suffering, monetary values, and what not is tremendous from people not feeling well.

 

[nyr2k2]

Matthew Barnaby and Theo Fleury were more my style of agitators than Avery. Guys that actually had friends in the locker room.

I loved Barnaby. He was a true team player. If you wanted him to play on the fourth line and do nothing but fight, he'd do it. If you wanted to put him on the second line in a pinch he'd do it, and show some skill in the process.

McCarthy was another guy I enjoyed. I remember him scoring and it setting off the Theo Fleury and Eric Cairns thing.

 

[NYSPORTS]

The Rangers can afford Eichel. Yes they need to get creative but it's possible

Sure, if you want to lose players and depth due to lack of cap space.

 

[nyr2k2]

Except. Avery did have friends in the room.

I really like Barnaby and Fleury is one of my all-time favs. To say Fleury is ok but Avery had problems?? Fleury is likely one of Avery's role models.

I loved Avery, too, but he's a Grade-A douche, whether or not he had friends in the locker room.

Theo had substance abuse issues and was abused as a young player. He turned himself into a great fundraiser for those with Chron's Disease and a tremendous advocate for victims of abuse.

Sean Avery harasses homeless people for Instagram views.

They're not comparable, as players or people.

 

[Alluckks]

Some particular Sabres fans, maybe even a specific moderator somewhere on some forum, has made the Eichel stuff even more fun for me. It's always a wonder how the behavior of fans can really turn you against a team that you otherwise never cared about one way or another

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]