Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XIII

[Leetch3]

Of course it matters, no matter what Namestnikov was assigned a lot of value when he in fact basically had no value. Or what do you mean? Does it matter if it was JT Miller for Namestnikov or JT Miller for Namestnikov and a third of a 1st round pick or whatever?

neither of those were actually the trade though. you can't just make up some trade and then just a real trade based on your imaginary trade.

 

[Ola]

We probably went by our armature record on that one...

Seriously though, we put a lot of value into our old files on these guys. They have talked about that a lot, a reason for why they interview so many guys and so forth.

But to do that too much is just backwards. Like we literary cannot watch a player in like the AHL and evaluate him? We have to go back and check what our amature scout thought 2-3 years earlier?

Emerson Etem was not even remotely close to ever becoming a NHLer. Namestnikov was assigned a lot of value while having none. Smith is another one. You can’t play RD as a LHS, or can but it’s a big disadvantage, a handicap, still we make a — big — investment in a LHS RD??

This is downright crap decisions.

 

[Ola]

neither of those were actually the trade though. you can't just make up some trade and then just a real trade based on your imaginary trade.

Lol I don’t understand at all?

Do you mean that we dealt Howden, Hajak and in principle 2nd round pick (what 28-29 overall at the lowest) for McDonagh and Miller and that Namestnikov was just a throw in?

Stop being childish and taking up my time.

 

[EpicDing]

We probably went by our armature record on that one...

Seriously though, we put a lot of value into our old files on these guys. They have talked about that a lot, a reason for why they interview so many guys and so forth.

But to do that too much is just backwards. Like we literary cannot watch a player in like the AHL and evaluate him? We have to go back and check what our amature scout thought 2-3 years earlier?

Emerson Etem was not even remotely close to ever becoming a NHLer. Namestnikov was assigned a lot of value while having none. Smith is another one. You can’t play RD as a LHS, or can but it’s a big disadvantage, a handicap, still we make a — big — investment in a LHS RD??

This is downright crap decisions.

Adding Miller and Namestnikov to the McDonagh deal is what it took to close it. We don't have Howden, Hajek, Henriksson, or Lundkvist without adding Miller and Namestnikov. Miller was gone that offseason either way.

A year and a half later, neither player is on the team they were traded to. It's not a huge deal.

 

[NYR Viper]

Didn't the Rangers select Lundkvist with that TB 1st? That would seem to be something worth weighing into the deal?

 

[Don Chytil]

Miller and Namestnikov are both PPG players with their new teams. Hajek and Howden have 2 points this year, McD also has 2 points. So far pretty equal, right? Add in Lundkvist as an asset and, guess what boys, we won the trade!!

Okay that's how the math works nothing else to see here great job Gorts

 

[EpicDing]

Miller and Namestnikov are both PPG players with their new teams. Hajek and Howden have 2 points this year, McD also has 2 points. So far pretty equal, right? Add in Lundkvist as an asset and, guess what boys, we won the trade!!

Okay that's how the math works nothing else to see here great job Gorts

You say that as if either player would be a PPG player here.

Also miniscule sample size in both cases.

 

[Don Chytil]

You say that as if either player would be a PPG player here.

Also miniscule sample size in both cases.

And here I am, thinking I did everything possible in my post to express that it was sarcastic

 

[Tawnos]

We probably went by our armature record on that one...

Seriously though, we put a lot of value into our old files on these guys. They have talked about that a lot, a reason for why they interview so many guys and so forth.

But to do that too much is just backwards. Like we literary cannot watch a player in like the AHL and evaluate him? We have to go back and check what our amature scout thought 2-3 years earlier?

Emerson Etem was not even remotely close to ever becoming a NHLer. Namestnikov was assigned a lot of value while having none. Smith is another one. You can’t play RD as a LHS, or can but it’s a big disadvantage, a handicap, still we make a — big — investment in a LHS RD??

This is downright crap decisions.

I wasn't a fan of his once he was here... but look, Emerson Etem WAS close to being an NHLer. He was 23 when we acquired him and had lit up the AHL in his time down there. He was the right kind of target. But with young players and prospects that you target in trades, it's always a gamble and sometimes it doesn't pay off. It seems to have paid off with DeAngelo and it definitely paid off with Zibanejad.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I wasn't a fan of his once he was here... but look, Emerson Etem WAS close to being an NHLer. He was 23 when we acquired him and had lit up the AHL in his time down there. He was the right kind of target. But with young players and prospects that you target in trades, it's always a gamble and sometimes it doesn't pay off. It seems to have paid off with DeAngelo and it definitely paid off with Zibanejad.

Bolded is important context. Sometimes it just doesn't work out.

 

[Tawnos]

Bolded is important context. Sometimes it just doesn't work out.

Yep. And sometimes we trade away a prospect everyone gets all bent out of shape about and he struggles to make any NHL team.

 

[bobbop]

I can’t pull the Sergachev quote up from the prior thread but least me add this observation...

Why let facts (Sergachev was never available) get in the way of a snappy post?

 

[NYRFANMANI]

Need More Tuffness.

A decade + of truth ... Lemieux and Trouba are basically our only "tough guys". Smith is hitting and doing stuff. ADA has been as soft as a kitten so far this season. He can throw'em and he can mouth'em, but he can't impose his physical will on the game. I hope Fil gets more edgy as he grows, he's got the frame. Andersson seems like he can be a really tuff guy (god I can't find the right adjective. something resistant, haha), once he's 24ish. Kaapo got the frame and mindset, can't have him lose his balls to Rangiritis.
So we need to add more certainty in that regard, those guys can turn out soft as charmin', for all we know. Find some less dirty versions of Tom Wilson, if that is even possible. Talented, tough and clean that is. (holy shit, I was gonna say "in later rounds, like Tom Wilson", mofo is drafted 16#OA lol)

Another part is most definitely MENTALITY! That's on coaching, originally management and (somewhat?) captaincy/locker room. They need to finally start sticking up for one another. Hopefully at some point in my life.

See, I love Ovi. That sob is TUFF, aight? Mofo was trainwrecking adults in the NHL at age 19/20. I want a guy like that! That's why Byfield should be priority #1, if he's able and daring enough to be that physical.

TL;DR version:

To quote German legend Oliver Kahn: "Eier! Wir brauchen Eier!"

 

[Avery16]

Oh the joys of Voros-Dubinsky-Zherdev as the 1st line

I take issue with any comparison of Fast to Voros, even in this circumstance.

 

[Avery16]

Kypreos. That's from EA Hockey 1993 though, not NHL 94.

Were King and Kypreos both #19?

 

[kovazub94]

View attachment 267257

It doesn’t matter. Problem is that Gorton basically gave JT Miller away for nothing no matter how you twist and turn it.

Our pro-scouting is just very rotten. I am just a fan, but I called exactly what Names what at the day the trade was made. On every move we can side up on either side, but this is not about that, if you understand the game well enough you can call out Namestnikov for what he is and always will be, a guy that plays with his head under his arm. The game is too fast for him to process it.

They need to shape up. Remove the old guard assembled by Sather. Try to find more guys that are in touch with what the game is about today.

Don't want to speak in absolutes but Namestnikov's problem is his hands, not his IQ.

As far as JTM goes, maybe he finally reached a new level of maturity and comfort in Vancouver but at the end of last year I would have gladly taken 1 more year of Namestnikov vs. 4 more years of $5.25. Almost anyone who says they were not surprised by what JTM brought back to TBL is lying.

And finally the front office who turned pretty much the worst prospect pool into the best one in under two years deserves a vote of confidence regardless of how some trades worked out. Need to look at the whole picture.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

View attachment 267257

It doesn’t matter. Problem is that Gorton basically gave JT Miller away for nothing no matter how you twist and turn it.

Our pro-scouting is just very rotten. I am just a fan, but I called exactly what Names what at the day the trade was made. On every move we can side up on either side, but this is not about that, if you understand the game well enough you can call out Namestnikov for what he is and always will be, a guy that plays with his head under his arm. The game is too fast for him to process it.

They need to shape up. Remove the old guard assembled by Sather. Try to find more guys that are in touch with what the game is about today.

Namestnicov has 5 points in 5 games with Ottawa

 

[kovazub94]

We probably went by our armature record on that one...

Seriously though, we put a lot of value into our old files on these guys...

Namestnikov is bad fit for this argument, buddy.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Jt miller is a good complimentary player who needs high level players with him to be effective. Played great with Stamkos and Kucherov...tailed off after he was demoted. Hes playing on the top line with Peterson, had we signed him he would have been an albatross of a contract and no better than Kreider on this team.

 

[lucky13]

Maybe if people would stop referring to him as Chad, Quinn would give him more ice time.

I went to HS with a Chad Quinn.... and he looked exactly how it sounds

 

[Tob]

I think it's because we're not calling him Chad enough. CHAD! CHAD! CHAD! CHAD! CHAD! CHAD! CHAD! CHAD!

The only thing Quinn has been unwavering on this season is keeping Chad on the 4th line. Mind Boggling without center depth.

 

[Riche16]

Namestnicov has 5 points in 5 games with Ottawa

He was azz here.

So what?!?!

 

[Ori]

What is JT. Miller paid now?
I`m too lazy to look it up this evening. But Kreider is more likely gone in March - we dont like to pay him while struggle with production after all these years.

I believe moving JT. Miller was a mistake - he is strong as well and now nucks get all the value. Stepan is like Crosby light without all the injuries and much slower, but we struggle down the middle and that is all on Gordon.

 

[Waivers]

@SA16 @kovazub94 Obviously Fast’s cap hit will not be the same, humor me, what astronomical numbers are you fellas looking at if and when Fast goes to UFA? He will not double his cap hit like JT Miller.

 

[SA16]

@SA16 @kovazub94 Obviously Fast’s cap hit will not be the same, humor me, what astronomical numbers are you fellas looking at if and when Fast goes to UFA? He will not double his cap hit like JT Miller.

I would not be surprised if he gets somewhere between 3-3.5M.