Roster Building thread - Part X - (TDL edition)

[80shockeywasbuns]

I can't wait until Kreider is no longer a Ranger so we could go back to complaining that we have no net front presence. That was easily a top 5 complaint amongst Rangers fans when I first started watching the Rangers. And now bozos deride him as a "deflection artist".

When Kreider is no longer a ranger I will be inconsolable. Worse than Henrik or Zucc by a mile

 

[huerter]

Anyone have evolving hockey subscription ? Interested to see Fox’s player card for Norris comparisons

I had to ask my son to translate this.

 

[jay from jersey]

Some on here are bi-polar and need to up their meds.
The same ones licking zibbys boots last year calling him a top 10c now want him gone. I expect if he turns into a 85-90 pt c next season they go back to saying he’s part of the solution not the problem….
Same crowd would have even retained on Panarin to move him in the offseason, making you a laughing stock of the league.
They all want young cost controlled ELC players, but don’t want the players to grow thru the growing pains of getting good.
- would have traded Schneider over nils cause he’s just big/not good.
- would have moved laf to get somthing before his value is exactly 0.
-said the trochek deal was bad by Drury at the beginning
- I can go on and on

I’ll let you in on a secret, good teams are almost always up against the cap.
Good teams have a healthy mix of vets/youth some of which are paid, overpaid, and underpaid. That’s life.

I swear some should just switch and root for OTT or Buf.
Ton of cost-controlled youth, high draft picks, solid farms and no playoffs wins in YEARS…..
Keep being video game gurus and trading this guy or that cause he has a bad year or he doesn’t play like an all-star in the first 5 minutes he’s called up.
I’ll stay in the real world, where being on a perpetual loser wears on good players at a certain age. They ask to be dealt/don’t sign there because it’s not a good atmosphere.
It’s not how winners are built… you need a healthy mix of everything.

The worst thing about this group is zibby/kreids/bread/shesty etc can’t line up their peak playing years to correlate together…. That’s the hard part of the formula. What do you do????

You have to weather the storm and not have wild/unreal expectations. Life is real. It happens. Players get sick/hurt/have kids/etc
They have things going on that affects their life and play on the ice any given season

 

[RangerBoy]

Some on here are bi-polar and need to up their meds.
The same ones licking zibbys boots last year calling him a top 10c now want him gone. I expect if he turns into a 85-90 pt c next season they go back to saying he’s part of the solution not the problem….
Same crowd would have even retained on Panarin to move him in the offseason, making you a laughing stock of the league.
They all want young cost controlled ELC players, but don’t want the players to grow thru the growing pains of getting good.
- would have traded Schneider over nils cause he’s just big/not good.
- would have moved laf to get somthing before his value is exactly 0.
-said the trochek deal was bad by Drury at the beginning
- I can go on and on

I’ll let you in on a secret, good teams are almost always up against the cap.
Good teams have a healthy mix of vets/youth some of which are paid, overpaid, and underpaid. That’s life.

I swear some should just switch and root for OTT or Buf.
Ton of cost-controlled youth, high draft picks, solid farms and no playoffs wins in YEARS…..
Keep being video game gurus and trading this guy or that cause he has a bad year or he doesn’t play like an all-star in the first 5 minutes he’s called up.
I’ll stay in the real world, where being on a perpetual loser wears on good players at a certain age. They ask to be dealt/don’t sign there because it’s not a good atmosphere.
It’s not how winners are built… you need a healthy mix of everything.

The worst thing about this group is zibby/kreids/bread/shesty etc can’t line up their peak playing years to correlate together…. That’s the hard part of the formula. What do you do????

You have to weather the storm and not have wild/unreal expectations. Life is real. It happens. Players get sick/hurt/have kids/etc
They have things going on that affects their life and play on the ice any given season

Buffalo has too many young players in the same age group. They have players signed and they have all of these young players coming up. That's the issue with having too many young players. The Sabres will have another high first round pick. Not at the very top but it's a high pick.

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

Buffalo has too many young players in the same age group. They have players signed and they have all of these young players coming up. That's the issue with having too many young players. The Sabres will have another high first round pick. Not at the very top but it's a high pick.

As it stands right now, they would be the 10th or 11th overall pick, though they could still drop and/or win the lotto.

If Buffalo management didn't hate the Rangers, could be a hockey trade between the 2 teams.

 

[jay from jersey]

As it stands right now, they would be the 10th or 11th overall pick, though they could still drop and/or win the lotto.

If Buffalo management didn't hate the Rangers, could be a hockey trade between the 2 teams.

Mark my words, if this miss the playoffs again next season id wager even guys like Tuch ( who’s a moose in the playoffs btw) begin to go the route of Eichel.

No one who’s a true competitor, which these guys are, want to waste their prime playing years continually missing the playoffs. Whether he’s from there or not…
I’ve had about 15 Sabres fans tell me they were on the cusp of being a dynasty going on about 5 years now….. same with OTT.
Any day now…… For buffalo, it’s about to be 12-13 years of not 1 playoff game played.
I’m so sick of hearing from our own fans that this is the way, their method is how you build a true winner/dynasty that will compete for multiple cups.
Having home grown talent/ adding UFAs / making smart trades are all equal parts of the formula.
Spending to the cap is common.
No GM is going to plan longer then 2-3 years down the line or they likely won’t be employed for too long

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

Mark my words, if this miss the playoffs again next season id wager even guys like Tuch ( who’s a moose in the playoffs btw) begin to go the route of Eichel.

No one who’s a true competitor, which these guys are, want to waste their prime playing years continually missing the playoffs. Whether he’s from there or not…
I’ve had about 15 Sabres fans tell me they were on the cusp of being a dynasty going on about 5 years now….. same with OTT.
Any day now…… For buffalo, it’s about to be 12-13 years of not 1 playoff game played.
I’m so sick of hearing from our own fans that this is the way, their method is how you build a true winner/dynasty that will compete for multiple cups.
Having home grown talent/ adding UFAs / making smart trades are all equal parts of the formula.
Spending to the cap is common.
No GM is going to plan longer then 2-3 years down the line or they likely won’t be employed for too long

They are the team that has the longest playoff drought in the NHL. Will be 13 years once they are officially eliminated for this season.

 

[bhamill]

This is a fair ?
I will explain fully when I have time this w'e ish to give full presentation

short immediate answer is it is not what you give up, but what you get in return
Yes, LaF will be worth mo later, but so will value of assets returned.

I have envisioned good combo of immediate help for us and signif upside
Will give deets later

Well the reason I was confused is because your post is phrased in a way where it looks like you want to shed these players in general, more than it being about some specific target(s). I don’t always agree with your, or anyone else’s, trade proposals, but when it’s about a specific target or targets I at least understand the reasoning. This post just seemed like “we need to get rid of these players while we can.” Which I totally disagree with. Laf especially I wouldn’t be LOOKING to trade, like people want to get rid of Trouba or Lindy…
Not saying anyone is untouchable just that I wouldn’t be LOOKING to trade these three.

 

[jay from jersey]

Tell Sil I said it would be beyond stupid to sell KK short and take a loss when, we already see he has good chem w/Cuylle, we just need to upgrade at pivot [Wenn is not the answer]

Tell Sil I said it would be beyond stupid to sell KK short and take a loss when, we already see he has good chem w/Cuylle, we just need to upgrade at pivot [Wenn is not the answer]

fuhgeddaboutittt

The main question is going to be bern, can Berard/Othmann replace what Kakko gives you for a fraction of the $$.
I like him. I think he should be on PK… but fact is, he isn’t.
So you’re mainly looking for a guy who can play solid D and contribute 30-40pts while playing a 3rd line role.
If they feel yes, he could be dealt in a hockey trade this offseason.

He might get a 1-2 year show me deal, but unless he explodes offensively, I doubt he’s in the teams long range plans at this point.

Selling high on Laf would be after he gets a full season at 1 PP and pots 80-90 pts.

trading him now is not selling high, it’s screwing yourself. Plus he should be going nowhere anyway. He’s part of the solution, not the problem

 

[Machinehead]

We’d still have Rempe

If Rempe scores as many goals in his career as Kreider has in the last three seasons, I will buy you pizza.

 

[kovazub94]

Well, Zib’s 2C in reality. Trails Troch in most important metrics, especially at 5v5. If I could only keep one, even disregarding cap hit, I’d take Trocheck this year. Easily.
Trouba, I actually think he COULD be moved pretty easily. More than one GM would love to have that presence on the Blue Line. Retention? Not necessary unless you want a return higher in value than without.
I’m not saying either SHOULD or WILL be moved.

The reactionary mode of this board (and a lot of fans in general) is funny. As far as Zibanejad by himself is concerned it’s clear that he’s just having a down year. But the context is that he’s on his second long-term contract with the Rangers and during this time this is his first down year outside of the obvious Covid-influenced stretch that lasted a few months. Still even in his down year he’s able to do a lot of things that contribute to the team’s success this season.

Now if we also bring career performance by Trocheck into analysis and him clearly outperforming his cap hit while producing as bona fide, the Rangers top-2 Cs as a whole are perfectly both from the performance perspective as well as in terms of performance as a function of a cap cost.

The real unfortunate detriment is from missing Chytil in the lineup.

 

[Profet]

People can peacock about this team and the current standings all they want.
I still see a team that:

• doesn't like to carry the puck between the dots
• doesn't react well when their time and space is taken away
• doesn't hold the defensive blue line well against skilled puck carriers.
• almost always is looking for the royal road pass rather than the shot.

I don't think that will translate in the playoffs.

I hope I'm wrong. But that's what I see.

 

[Mikachu93]

People can peacock about this team and the current standings all they want.
I still see a team that:

• doesn't like to carry the puck between the dots
• doesn't react well when their time and space is taken away
• doesn't hold the defensive blue line well against skilled puck carriers.
• almost always is looking for the royal road pass rather than the shot.

I don't think that will translate in the playoffs.

I hope I'm wrong. But that's what I see.

Did you watch the last two games against Boston and Florida

 

[bernmeister]

I started typing basically the same thing, but you said it.

Bern, you mean well. A lot of the times your premise is agreeable, but the details can go off the rails.

NMC's = Bad
We all agree.

We miss out on Panarin in 2019 because the Isles offered more PLUS don't have an in-house "zero tolerance policy" if we offer him the same thing but a 30-team NTC instead of the NMC. It's about being judicious.
....

nice that we all agree on NMCs = bad, but dirty work of being nagging cheerleader to do something about it usually rests w/bern. Would love to share that burden if anybody else wants to step up and be real about it.

But being real about that means being tough when you have to.
Yeah, bread is earning his bread now, less so past coupla yrs.
If there were no cap -- which has to stretch across all team needs-- then yeah, it's Dolan's $$$, who gives a rat's ass. But reality check; there IS cap! And it impacts what gets done across the roster. And the more too much is given to one guy, that much less is available elsewhere.

I have no prob w/what we gave Panarin esp remembering when that deal was made and the state of the team EXCEPT for the ironclad NMC.
Roster flexibility is an asset, and either nmcs are there to weaken team position, or they are not.

I get you pushing Panarin as worthwhile even w/his hit.
That's fair.
But what you overlook is the issue of opportunity cost.
One bread at 11.6+ <<< 3 Chytils at 4ish per ea.

It is way more than 4 guys. Sorry the vast majority of us just don't reply.

Not saying I do not enjoy your posts but you are way to full of it.

Can't allow that false narrative to go unchecked.
There is a small handful that disagrees with me about virtually everything regarding anything, hence "water is/is not wet".

That does not mean to say that everyone else automatically agrees with me, particularly completely so, on any given subject. I find that agree/disagree varies with my content on the subject, and that is how it should be -- for all of us. We are all best served when there is an honest competition of ideas, and not a slavish capitulation to herd mentality to be accepted.

As to being "way to[o] full of it"
I make no apologies for having pushed said competition of ideas, and expressed my opinions with confidence there are usually correct as to the merits, notwithstanding that sometimes if not often all of us must do so in a context of subjective, rather than objective parameters.
That's fine; discussion is good, debate is healthy.
And as noted a few posts above, re: Trouba being rfa not ufa, I am happy to admit being wrong when that actually is the case.

But as there is an inference in your dig as to being "arrogant", which you did not say but someone else did many posts earlier, permit me to retort/clarify:

-- It is 1 thing to announce you hope/believe you have made a hypothetical breakthrough with a theory on how to restructure the international monetary system that would solve upwards of a third of the problems of the world, which needs study.
Even if tooting one's own horn, this is not arrogant.
-- It is another to report that an advisor to 3 US Presidents says we need full academic review prior to validation, but as for a preliminary evaluation, your theory checks out, with no visible errors.
This also is not arrogant.
-- What crosses the line and IS arrogant is to say, ego sum, I AM the basis for this, that "I alone can fix it" to quote a na'er do well we all recognize.

My monetary system may/may not be genius and recognized as such.
But that is intrinsic to the merit of my work, not me, or any other author.
If you, the short order cook in the local greasy spoon, the man in the moon or anyone else had come up with this bright idea, it's content would still have high regard based on merit.

As that relates here, my suggestions/views are what they are, and are/are not flawed based on merit, just like everybody else. And I will continue to push the envelope of thinking outside the box, b'c imo more of that is needed, frankly, to see our beloved Rs improve.

ell the reason I was confused is because your post is phrased in a way where it looks like you want to shed these players in general, more than it being about some specific target(s). I don’t always agree with your, or anyone else’s, trade proposals, but when it’s about a specific target or targets I at least understand the reasoning. This post just seemed like “we need to get rid of these players while we can.” Which I totally disagree with. Laf especially I wouldn’t be LOOKING to trade, like people want to get rid of Trouba or Lindy…

Not saying anyone is untouchable just that I wouldn’t be LOOKING to trade these three.

Fair enuf -- just wait for me to finalize pls.
Tho sometimes there is "addition by subtraction" rarely do I go w/let's just get rid of a guy. I am famously vs coke for pepsi if no profit. Pt of making deals is realize gain in one area or another.

People can peacock about this team and the current standings all they want.
I still see a team that:

• doesn't like to carry the puck between the dots
• doesn't react well when their time and space is taken away
• doesn't hold the defensive blue line well against skilled puck carriers.
• almost always is looking for the royal road pass rather than the shot.

I don't think that will translate in the playoffs.

I hope I'm wrong. But that's what I see.

honest observations, hopefully not insurmountable

 

[Profet]

Did you watch the last two games against Boston and Florida

The one where Florida was missing like half their lineup and a Boston team that is playing so bad they just had a bag skate?

Yep!

 

[Kupo]

When Kreider is no longer a ranger I will be inconsolable. Worse than Henrik or Zucc by a mile

Nothing was as bad as this..

Mark my words, if this miss the playoffs again next season id wager even guys like Tuch ( who’s a moose in the playoffs btw) begin to go the route of Eichel.

Tuch LOVES Buffalo. This isn't the same as Eichel.

 

[bernmeister]

The main question is going to be bern, can Berard/Othmann replace what Kakko gives you for a fraction of the $$.
I like him. I think he should be on PK… but fact is, he isn’t.
So you’re mainly looking for a guy who can play solid D and contribute 30-40pts while playing a 3rd line role.
If they feel yes, he could be dealt in a hockey trade this offseason.

He might get a 1-2 year show me deal, but unless he explodes offensively, I doubt he’s in the teams long range plans at this point.

Selling high on Laf would be after he gets a full season at 1 PP and pots 80-90 pts.

trading him now is not selling high, it’s screwing yourself. Plus he should be going nowhere anyway. He’s part of the solution, not the problem

Respectfully disagree.
Your conclusion is erroneous x 2.

KK has untapped potential, we see it, eye test confirms Cuyle and would have been solid w/Chytil.
Need to hold the course here and not take less on KK, idea will be to add w/Oth/Per/Ber
I am happy to support anyone's suggestion we go 1 step backward to get 2+ forward, when that is evident and makes sense.
Moving KK now, barring overpayment = mistake

Other issue is LaF
Selling high is not rigid anal retentive infleixible status of how many pts he has, how far along he is.
The ? there is his estimated upside vs what profit, both immediate and long term, from assets obtained in deal.

This is Holy Wk,
I got lotta shit to do before Easter
and Good Friday is only day of the year I am unavailable to anybody for any reason.
Be patient.

When I post my mega deal selling LaF high, I will welcome any honest analysis/[particularly obective] critique you have.

peace out

 

[Kupo]

Roster flexibility is an asset, and either nmcs are there to weaken team position, or they are not.

You're not signing a relevant free agent without a trade clause in their contract. Offer more money if you want, it won't happen. You can pound your first all you want and it won't change anything.

You think Panarin and his agent are stupid enough to not push for that? You think Panarin is going to leave himself in a vulnerable position of being traded to f***ing Arizona for the last 4 years of his contract?

Free agents have paid their dues. Like it or not, they're the ones that have control over where they sign. You pull a NMC/NTC off the table and you're not signing anyone relevant in today's league.

 

[RempireStateBuilding]

The one where Florida was missing like half their lineup and a Boston team that is playing so bad they just had a bag skate?

Yep!

Ah but Rangers injuries don't matter at all because anyone in a Rangers sweater is abjectly awful. More injuries just means addition by subtraction, right?

 

[Profet]

Ah but Rangers injuries don't matter at all because anyone in a Rangers sweater is abjectly awful. More injuries just means addition by subtraction, right?

The Rangers were missing Trouba and Lindgren.

The Panthers were missing:

• Barkov
• Ekblad
• Forsling
• Kulikov

I'm not really sure what you are insinuating, because it's simply factual that the effect of their injury scratches was much higher than the effect of our injury scratches.

 

[bl02]

The Rangers were missing Trouba and Lindgren.

The Panthers were missing:

• Barkov
• Ekblad
• Forsling
• Kulikov

I'm not really sure what you are insinuating, because it's simply factual that the effect of their injury scratches was much higher than the effect of our injury scratches.

I would add Cuylle to that list

 

[bhamill]

The reactionary mode of this board (and a lot of fans in general) is funny. As far as Zibanejad by himself is concerned it’s clear that he’s just having a down year. But the context is that he’s on his second long-term contract with the Rangers and during this time this is his first down year outside of the obvious Covid-influenced stretch that lasted a few months. Still even in his down year he’s able to do a lot of things that contribute to the team’s success this season.

Now if we also bring career performance by Trocheck into analysis and him clearly outperforming his cap hit while producing as bona fide, the Rangers top-2 Cs as a whole are perfectly both from the performance perspective as well as in terms of performance as a function of a cap cost.

The real unfortunate detriment is from missing Chytil in the lineup.

I'm not sure "reactionary" is directed at me, but I'm just plainly stating fact: Trocheck has become our 1C this year. And it's not a small sample, at this point its about 3/4 of the season. I'm not saying we have to ditch Zibs and hey maybe it is just a "down year," I'm only saying he is not our 1C. WAS he our 1C last year? Yup. COULD he be our 1C NEXT year? Sure. IS he our 1C? Nope.
And yes, we definitely miss Fil.

 

[kovazub94]

I'm not sure "reactionary" is directed at me, but I'm just plainly stating fact: Trocheck has become our 1C this year. And it's not a small sample, at this point its about 3/4 of the season. I'm not saying we have to ditch Zibs and hey maybe it is just a "down year," I'm only saying he is not our 1C. WAS he our 1C last year? Yup. COULD he be our 1C NEXT year? Sure. IS he our 1C? Nope.
And yes, we definitely miss Fil.

Reactionary wasn't directed at you - I was agreeing with you.

 

[Machinehead]

Ah but Rangers injuries don't matter at all because anyone in a Rangers sweater is abjectly awful. More injuries just means addition by subtraction, right?

One particular guy who is injured, yes. Very much so.

 

[IDvsEGO]

The Rangers were missing Trouba and Lindgren.

The Panthers were missing:

• Barkov
• Ekblad
• Forsling
• Kulikov

I'm not really sure what you are insinuating, because it's simply factual that the effect of their injury scratches was much higher than the effect of our injury scratches.

And my answer is, if Panarin and Trocheck and Shesty were out, and we lost, it would just sound like an excuse.
You play the team that they ice.
Injuries are and will always be a thing.
The objective is to win, we did that, it wasn’t necessarily pretty but we did.