Proposal: Roster Building Thread Part IV: High Hopes

[Hockeyplayer99]

I think the value of being able to effectively move the puck out of your own zone is being severly underrated.

Also if Miller is moved to center, the depth there is not bad. You have 3 guys that are 2/3 centers. They are lacking that clear cut #1. DD will be fine on the fourth line.

What's funny is that some of the posters saying that the Rangers do not have a #1 center after trading Stepan were some of the same people that were saying that Stepan was not a #1 center during the season. Go figure.

Stepan was always in the top 30 in points for Centers, so I don't know why people didn't consider him a number 1 center. Because he wasn't Crosby, Mcdavid. Malkin. Duschene is a number 1 center but as of this time in both there careers Stepan had a better PPG then Duschene. I considered Stepan a number 1, just not an elite number 1, but still a number 1. Zibby I don't think will be able to fill that role and unless we get someone to replace Stepan, which will cost us more money in the end, then we will have to live with Zibby as our number 1.

 

[kovazub94]

Stepan was always in the top 30 in points for Centers, so I don't know why people didn't consider him a number 1 center. Because he wasn't Crosby, Mcdavid. Malkin. Duschene is a number 1 center but as of this time in both there careers Stepan had a better PPG then Duschene. I considered Stepan a number 1, just not an elite number 1, but still a number 1. Zibby I don't think will be able to fill that role and unless we get someone to replace Stepan, which will cost us more money in the end, then we will have to live with Zibby as our number 1.

Why not? He was better last season in playoffs and for long stretches during regular season. His injury and a following catching up back to form was unfortunate, otherwise he'd give you a better season than Stepan all around. The actual issue is whether Hayes or Miller could replace what the team lost in (declining) Stepan.

 

[NYR]

We're going from Girardi to Shattenkirk

We could lose all four of our centers and replace them with Andersson, Chytil, Nieves, and the Cracker Jack guy in 213 and it would be a net positive as far as facing pressure.

Girardi brought more pressure on his own zone than any player to play in this league since the lockout, and only now is everyone suddenly worried about pressure, and because we lost Stepan who was a marginal defensive player anyway.

Eventually..You're going to have to stop using Girardi as an answer/ excuse for everything and start looking at the whole picture.

Girardi is no longer on the team!

 

[NYR]

Why not? He was better last season in playoffs and for long stretches during regular season. His injury and a following catching up back to form was unfortunate, otherwise he'd give you a better season than Stepan all around. The actual issue is whether Hayes or Miller could replace what the team lost in (declining) Stepan.

Other than in spurts throughout is entire career, when has he ever shown that he's capable of being a #1 center?

There's a lot of wishful thinking around here.

 

[TheTakedown]

Eventually..You're going to have to stop using Girardi as an answer/ excuse for everything and start looking at the whole picture.

Girardi is no longer on the team!

he's literally telling you that Girardi isn't on the team and that's why the team will be good... what can't you understand from that post?

 

[NYR]

he's literally telling you that Girardi isn't on the team and that's why the team will be good... what can't you understand from that post?

That's why the team is good now?

All because Girardi is gone now? lol

You seriously want me to reply to this or would you just rather look at my other posts explaining why not only myself and others have concerns?

 

[Boruto]

Eventually..You're going to have to stop using Girardi as an answer/ excuse for everything and start looking at the whole picture.

Girardi is no longer on the team!

I think that's the point he's trying to make.

 

[NYR]

I think that's the point he's trying to make.

The issues moving FWD no longer have anything to do with Girardi and the current state of the team.

That's what I'm looking to talk about.

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

Adding Shattenkirk and DeAngelo with help with the transition game, which was a major issue for this team last year. Skjei will continue to develop and should benefit even more by playing a full season with Smith.

All that combined with no Girardi and a reduced role for Staal. The D was a major upgrade from last season.

If they think or want Miller to be a top 9 center they either invite one of the unsigned wingers to camp or make a trade there. Would be the cheaper option then trying to trade for a center.

 

[NYR]

Adding Shattenkirk and DeAngelo with help with the transition game, which was a major issue for this team last year. Skjei will continue to develop and should benefit even more by playing a full season with Smith.

All that combined with no Girardi and a reduced role for Staal. The D was a major upgrade from last season.

If they think or want Miller to be a top 9 center they either invite one of the unsigned wingers to camp or make a trade there. Would be the cheaper option then trying to trade for a center.

I'm definitely rooting for DeAngelo to make the team but there's no guarantee there.

The unsigned wingers are just mediocre plugs.

We need impact players. Instead we're just filling holes IMO

 

[Alluckks]

I'm definitely rooting for DeAngelo to make the team but there's no guarantee there.

The unsigned wingers are just mediocre plugs.

We need impact players. Instead we're just filling holes IMO

Alright, you've been going on this for quite a while now; and, before you fall on the "I'm just being realistic!!!1!" shtick, I don't exactly remember you ever for your optimism, or being right. This is the chicken-little, sky is falling, nonsense. It comes off as clueless.

Our defense is light years better than last year. All our young forwards are one year old and more experienced. When you came on with the "not strong defensive forward" whatever it was pointed out to you that Nash and Zucc are the top line players, and Kreider is well off defensively as well. You then moved the goalposts (as you tend to do) to suit your argument of, for some reason, assuming Buchnevich will be in the top-line shutdown role.

Look, we all read your concerns, personal dilemma, whatever, and it has been addressed. That is good and all. But let's not clout half of every page with it.

I get it, you're a hockey "veteran" and whatnot - it doesn't lend to your qualification, knowledge, and frankly your ability to assess the current team, the future of the team, and individual players comes off as wrong at best.

 

[Boruto]

We played 2/3 of our season last year with Girardi-Holden-Klein/Clendening/Kampfer as our RHD depth. We will start the season with Shattenkirk-Smith-Pionk/ADA on the ride side. As far as what I've heard and seen from Pionk/ADA, our 3RHD will be better than our 1RHD from last year.

Skjei has improved as a player and he'll be getting more minutes. McDonagh no longer has to play from a deficit by being on a pair with Girardi. Bereglazov has to play or he's rightfully leaving for the KHL instead of being blocked by Staal. How the 3LD spot will shake out is unknown but even the option of a capable 3LD instead of Staal is an improvement from last year's icing of Staal for 20 minutes

improvement-improvement
improvement-improvement
improvement-improvement
Marc Staal

That's not a "Shattenkirk offsets Stepan"

 

[Mac n Gs]

I have to call you crazy. Will they be good? Yes. Wouldn't surprise me if they took a wildcard slot. They're just not developed enough to make that sort of jump. 2018-19 and onward they'll be dangerous

Isn't that where we're most likely going to be? Our division is ridiculously loaded and it's not crazy to think that there are 5 playoff teams there. The Atlantic sucks ass.

I'm definitely rooting for DeAngelo to make the team but there's no guarantee there.

The unsigned wingers are just mediocre plugs.

We need impact players. Instead we're just filling holes IMO

I'm with you here. As it stands right now, Deangelo is blocked on the depth chart:

McDonagh-Shattenkirk
Skeji-Smith
Staal-Holden
Bereglazov-Deangelo
Kampfer
Graves-Pionk

 

[NYR]

We played 2/3 of our season last year with Girardi-Holden-Klein/Clendening/Kampfer as our RHD depth. We will start the season with Shattenkirk-Smith-Pionk/ADA on the ride side. As far as what I've heard and seen from Pionk/ADA, our 3RHD will be better than our 1RHD from last year.

Skjei has improved as a player and he'll be getting more minutes. McDonagh no longer has to play from a deficit by being on a pair with Girardi. Bereglazov has to play or he's rightfully leaving for the KHL instead of being blocked by Staal. How the 3LD spot will shake out is unknown but even the option of a capable 3LD instead of Staal is an improvement from last year's icing of Staal for 20 minutes

improvement-improvement
improvement-improvement
improvement-improvement
Marc Staal

That's not a "Shattenkirk offsets Stepan"

This is all conjecture and to be determined but I like where the convo is going.
I'm a details oriented kinda guy and like to get to the bottom of things

 

[NYR]

Alright, you've been going on this for quite a while now; and, before you fall on the "I'm just being realistic!!!1!" shtick, I don't exactly remember you ever for your optimism, or being right. This is the chicken-little, sky is falling, nonsense. It comes off as clueless.

Our defense is light years better than last year. All our young forwards are one year old and more experienced. When you came on with the "not strong defensive forward" whatever it was pointed out to you that Nash and Zucc are the top line players, and Kreider is well off defensively as well. You then moved the goalposts (as you tend to do) to suit your argument of, for some reason, assuming Buchnevich will be in the top-line shutdown role.

Look, we all read your concerns, personal dilemma, whatever, and it has been addressed. That is good and all. But let's not clout half of every page with it.

I get it, you're a hockey "veteran" and whatnot - it doesn't lend to your qualification, knowledge, and frankly your ability to assess the current team, the future of the team, and individual players comes off as wrong at best.

I like to keep things real and have legit hockey talk. If somethings good I'll say it but if somethings off I'll keep it real as opposed to some the fantasy land scenarios some of you dream up around here.

If you don't feel that there's a HUGE hole at center after losing Stepan and Lindberg and that it's not a serious issue for this team than I don't know that there's much more to discuss.

I like to look at the whole picture.

Having Shattenkirk and Smith along with a few newbies while gutting your center depth doesn't magically change ****.

 

[Rangerfan4life90]

I like to keep things real and have legit hockey talk. If somethings good I'll say it but if somethings off I'll keep it real as opposed to some the fantasy land scenarios some of you dream up around here.

If you don't feel that there's a HUGE hole at center after losing Stepan and Lindberg and that it's not a serious issue for this team than I don't know that there's much more to discuss.

I like to look at the whole picture.

Having Shattenkirk and Smith along with a few newbies while gutting your center depth doesn't magically change ****.

Obviously if we still had Stepan and Lindberg while adding all the pieces we did, the Rangers would be serious contenders this upcoming season.

But, it didn't work out that way. The defense was a weak point last season, and now I think center will probably be a weak spot this season. Just hope Mika and Hayes take a step forward, and Lias can become a 3C this season (unrealistic, but you never know).

 

[Boruto]

This is all conjecture and to be determined but I like where the convo is going.
I'm a details oriented kinda guy and like to get to the bottom of things

Shattenkirk-Smith is not superior to Girardi-Holden? A young two way defenseman with potential and experience in the NHL slated to play on the 3rd pairing and the most highly sought after college free agent who had a convincing playoffs who is generally agreed upon to be NHL ready isn't an improvement over an injured/retiring Klein, a career AHLer Kampfer or an so-so third pairing less talented Clendening? Watching 20 minutes a night of Holden in the Montreal series would have been enough to make Jack fall out of love with Rose and he wouldn't have had to give up his spot on the life raft and freeze to death at the bottom of the Pacific Ocean. Skjei getting the 2LHD role and more minutes isn't an improvement over buyout candidate Marc Staal? Having a young and competent KHL defenseman take over the 3LD spot over a almost retired and should be retired Marc Staal isn't an improvement? What isn't an improvement when you knock Girardi-Holden-Staal out of the top 4?

 

[NYR]

Shattenkirk-Smith is not superior to Girardi-Holden? A young two way defenseman with potential and experience in the NHL slated to play on the 3rd pairing and the most highly sought after college free agent who had a convincing playoffs who is generally agreed upon to be NHL ready isn't an improvement over an injured/retiring Klein, a career AHLer Kampfer or an so-so third pairing less talented Clendening? Watching 20 minutes a night of Holden in the Montreal series would have been enough to make Jack fall out of love with Rose and he wouldn't have had to give up his spot on the life raft and freeze to death at the bottom of the Pacific Ocean. Skjei getting the 2LHD role and more minutes isn't an improvement over buyout candidate Marc Staal? Having a young and competent KHL defenseman take over the 3LD spot over a almost retired and should be retired Marc Staal isn't an improvement? What isn't an improvement when you knock Girardi-Holden-Staal out of the top 4?

Holden is still very much apart of this team which I seriously hope isn't the case come opening night.
Staal is obviously a little more complicated with the contract.
Both need to disappear.

Things is though..Even if you exile both to the moon there's still plenty of options.

Center #NotSoMuch

 

[smoneil]

We played 2/3 of our season last year with Girardi-Holden-Klein/Clendening/Kampfer as our RHD depth. We will start the season with Shattenkirk-Smith-Pionk/ADA on the ride side. As far as what I've heard and seen from Pionk/ADA, our 3RHD will be better than our 1RHD from last year.

Skjei has improved as a player and he'll be getting more minutes. McDonagh no longer has to play from a deficit by being on a pair with Girardi. Bereglazov has to play or he's rightfully leaving for the KHL instead of being blocked by Staal. How the 3LD spot will shake out is unknown but even the option of a capable 3LD instead of Staal is an improvement from last year's icing of Staal for 20 minutes

improvement-improvement
improvement-improvement
improvement-improvement
Marc Staal

That's not a "Shattenkirk offsets Stepan"

This is if everything falls in the best case scenario. For example:

Shattenkirk had, by far, a career year last season. What if he reverts to his old numbers? Are ~40-45 points worth it if he's playing as poorly in his own end as he did in Washington?

What if the issue with McD is his (repeated) shoulder injuries rather than his lining up next to Girardi? There is no guarantee that McD takes a huge leap forward next season.

What if the Smith we get is the one who was getting scratched before the trade last season?

What if Skjei has a sophomore slump?

What if Pionk/Bereglazov/ADA aren't ready?

What if our idiot coach STILL plays Staal and Holden 20+ minutes a game and buries Shattenkirk and Skjei at 5/6? Before you laugh, remember Yandle?


This D has more POTENTIAL than last season's unit, but the people already christening it a top unit league wide are all assuming that a LOT of things break our way. I hope they are right, but it's not a given.

I'm also very concerned by the fact that this team is one injury away from another Erik Christensen at #1 C situation again. C has been such a strength for this team ever since Stepan got here. He allowed everyone else to slot into their appropriate roles. Barring a big jump forward from Zib or a big trade, we will be back to the days where middle sixers are asked to handle top six and top line responsibilities.

I don't hate the moves, but Gorton created a BIG hole in this roster. He'd better:

A- have a plan to address that hole at #1C
B- have a backup plan in case one of Zib/Hayes/Miller gets hurt
C- Hope that his gamble pays off (ie: Zib can handle 1C, Lias turns into a better C than Stepan, and/or ADA becomes a difference maker).


I don't think this team is better than last year's team. Gorton didn't fix the holes, he moved them. And on top of that, he created a roster that, if a couple of bad things happen (slumps/injuries), could see this team outside of the playoffs for the first time in years, IMO. That said, I DO think this team is better positioned to improve over the next couple of seasons than last year's group was. Similar short term outlook between this year and last year, but I think this year's group has a better long-term chance at success.

 

[NYR]

This is if everything falls in the best case scenario. For example:

Shattenkirk had, by far, a career year last season. What if he reverts to his old numbers? Are ~40-45 points worth it if he's playing as poorly in his own end as he did in Washington?

What if the issue with McD is his (repeated) shoulder injuries rather than his lining up next to Girardi? There is no guarantee that McD takes a huge leap forward next season.

What if the Smith we get is the one who was getting scratched before the trade last season?

What if Skjei has a sophomore slump?

What if Pionk/Bereglazov/ADA aren't ready?

What if our idiot coach STILL plays Staal and Holden 20+ minutes a game and buries Shattenkirk and Skjei at 5/6? Before you laugh, remember Yandle?


This D has more POTENTIAL than last season's unit, but the people already christening it a top unit league wide are all assuming that a LOT of things break our way. I hope they are right, but it's not a given.

I'm also very concerned by the fact that this team is one injury away from another Erik Christensen at #1 C situation again. C has been such a strength for this team ever since Stepan got here. He allowed everyone else to slot into their appropriate roles. Barring a big jump forward from Zib or a big trade, we will be back to the days where middle sixers are asked to handle top six and top line responsibilities.

I don't hate the moves, but Gorton created a BIG hole in this roster. He'd better:

A- have a plan to address that hole at #1C
B- have a backup plan in case one of Zib/Hayes/Miller gets hurt
C- Hope that his gamble pays off (ie: Zib can handle 1C, Lias turns into a better C than Stepan, and/or ADA becomes a difference maker).


I don't think this team is better than last year's team. Gorton didn't fix the holes, he moved them. And on top of that, he created a roster that, if a couple of bad things happen (slumps/injuries), could see this team outside of the playoffs for the first time in years, IMO. That said, I DO think this team is better positioned to improve over the next couple of seasons than last year's group was. Similar short term outlook between this year and last year, but I think this year's group has a better long-term chance at success.

This post is perfection and obviously worded much better than any of mine but if I don't rile some of you up this thread would never get past the freeze lol

 

[Griffinbw]

Been lurking for a bit too long: so here come my thoughts on last year vs. this year

Vesey-Stepan-Nash
Kreider-Ziba-Zucc
Buch-Hayes-Miller
Grabner-Lindberg-Fast

McD-Girardi
Staal-Holden
Skjei-Smith


Losses:
Lindberg (expansion)
Stepan (trade)
Girardi (buyout)
Klein (retirement)
Pirri (SHL)

Additions:
Desharnais (FA)
Shattenkirk (FA)
Pionk (College FA)
DeAngelo (trade)
Bereglazov (FA)

Vesey-Zibanejad-Nash
Kreider-Hayes-Zucc
Buch-Desharnais-Miller
Grabner-?-Fast

McD-Shattenkirk
Skjei-Smith
Bereglazov/Staal-Bereglazov/Pionk/DeAngelo

Forwards:
Obviously losing Stepan was a big deal, our center depth is somewhat crippled now.
Do I have faith in Mika to step into that #1 role? Yes. Completely.
Do I have faith in Hayes to step into the #2 role? Yes, but not certain.

Hopefully, we see improvements from Mika, Hayes, Buch, Vesey, Miller, and Kreider. Obviously we can't assume any sort of improvement here, but I expect Buch and Vesey to step up, Buch motivated by ice time, and Vesey after having the longer season under his belt.



Backend:
No one here could possibly argue that Shattenkirk isn't a major upgrade over Girardi. He offers powerplay help we desperately need, and he is actually good at defense too (contrary to popular opinion).
The additionss of bereglazov/DeAngelo/Pionk on the third pair are pivotal. I saw a lot of Bereglazov last season in the KHL, and I have to say the guy is impressive. I'd be interested to see a Bereglazov-DeAngelo pairing, considering DeAngelo's offensive focus (Stralman-Hedman like). I could see him stepping on to most teams second pairings in the NHL. No matter which of the 3 plays, it's a major upgrade over Holden.

Our issue last year was not scoring. We had trouble keeping the puck out of our own net the entire year, and it wasn't always Hank's fault no matter what narrative you believe.


At the end of the day, I'd say this team is much better off than last year. Stepan, although great defensively, didn't provide much of our scoring last season. Thankfully, our revamped blue line should be able to pick up the defensive slack and more.

 

[Machinehead]

The issues moving FWD no longer have anything to do with Girardi and the current state of the team.

That's what I'm looking to talk about.

You asked me specifically about defensive pressure, and whether I'm concerned about it.

I responded by pointing out that we no longer employ the worst defensive pressure player in recorded history, and for that reason I'm not concerned.

 

[Machinehead]

What if the Smith we get is the one who was getting scratched before the trade last season?

That Smith doesn't exist.

He was getting scratched because Detroit's coach is subhuman.

 

[NYR]

A dyslexic person walks into a bra.. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[smoneil]

That Smith doesn't exist.

He was getting scratched because Detroit's coach is subhuman.

I know this is no surprise to you, but our coach ain't exactly super-human.