Speculation: Roster Building Thread LVIII: At part 58, I am out of titles.

[bobbop]

Boys and girls, sending Smith to Hartford saves a million and change this year. Buying him out this year saves $3.3MM. Given the financial hurdle that Gorton faces (approx. $7-8MM) he needs the bigger figure.

I know there are future implications for buying out Smith. Deal with them next year.

 

[bobbop]

@Vitto79 Fast's cap hit is $1.85. It's a fine hit but doubt they pay him a substantial raise.

The Rangers didn't sign Panarin and Trouba to dangle them. They are main parts of the rebuild for the team to improve as soon as next season. There will be no more tanking going on at least not intentionally.

Trouba's contract will get done probably by early next week. Gorton is patient. Very patient. He isn't on a beach somewhere or sipping a mimosa. He's analyzing deals or engaging in talks. He's trying to maximize his prized assets (Kreider, Names, Fast, Buch) or get back/attach as little as possible to the anchors (Smith and Shattenkirk).

Ultimately he will pull the trigger one way or another but not until he's satisfied. The market is chess. Dzingel who had nearly as many goal as Kreider but a bad playoffs went for under $4 million. Vancouver just gave Michael Ferlund $3.5. Those definitely impact Kreider who is a superior player to both.

Well written post.

 

[Good Intentions]

The program on the 1994 Rangers will be airing at 10 PM on NHLN

They are playing up the New Yawk stereotype pretty hard. Would have liked a bit more diversity aside from the section 400 crowd of Staten Island.

Between the one loser talking about his bloody hand from punching out the MSG light bulb to the double chin guy burning Ranger jerseys and renouncing fandom in favor of premier league soccer if we lose, not exactly proud company they are appealing to.

 

[RGY]

They are playing up the New Yawk stereotype pretty hard. Would have liked a bit more diversity aside from the section 400 crowd of Staten Island.

Between the one loser talking about his bloody hand from punching out the MSG light bulb to the double chin guy burning Ranger jerseys and renouncing fandom in favor of premier league soccer if we lose, not exactly proud company they are appealing to.

Hey be careful, those guys could be members on this board.

My guess, wenevergetagoodcoach.

 

[bobbop]

And remember, there will be a handful of buyouts around the league in coming weeks. That will open space and payroll for teams, including the Rangers, to make deals. Probably more so this year than in prior years due to the lower cap number.

 

[Leetch3]

They are playing up the New Yawk stereotype pretty hard. Would have liked a bit more diversity aside from the section 400 crowd of Staten Island.

Between the one loser talking about his bloody hand from punching out the MSG light bulb to the double chin guy burning Ranger jerseys and renouncing fandom in favor of premier league soccer if we lose, not exactly proud company they are appealing to.

glad they skipped over the larmer trade and long unbeaten streak to give those guys airtime

 

[Good Intentions]

glad they skipped over the larmer trade and long unbeaten streak to give those guys airtime

foolishness of some production crony. garbage.

 

[Chalfdiggity3]

Boys and girls, sending Smith to Hartford saves a million and change this year. Buying him out this year saves $3.3MM. Given the financial hurdle that Gorton faces (approx. $7-8MM) he needs the bigger figure.

I know there are future implications for buying out Smith. Deal with them next year.

That's a horrible mentality for building a team for the future to be a perennial cup contender. Just deal with the cap implications in the future? The buyout method is not the way. I dont want to be in cap hell bc of dead cap space which is exactly what would happen in the years when we are ready to compete for the cup. I know people say it's only a few million here and there for the next 4 years, and it saves so much for this year.

Let's be honest, the cap has not been going up as expected, there is a lot of chatter that the cap will be set after next year and I doubt it will be at more than 85m. Having 4 to 6m in dead cap space in the future is a short sighted move for a rebuilding team. We need all the cap we can get to sign our own players, and make trades like we did with the trouba deal. Having cap space is a major asset to have in a cap world.

We are not competing for the cup this year nor are we even a playoff team yet. Trade the players that dont fit our rebuild. Krieder will want an Anders Lee type deal 7years 7m aav. No thanks not for a player who disappears for long stretches in games and for the season, trade him for picks and prospects. That's 4.5m off the cap. Then trade names for a 3rd like in the vesey deal. That's another 4m off. There is our 6.5m that we need in order to sign buch, DeAngelo, and lemieux. And if it's not just have them sign the qualifying offer and see if they are worth more money. Trade shatty at the deadline if we can.

Hopefully we play well but are still in the lottery and end up with a top 5 pick and get a franchise forward. Continue to build the right way. Then if we need to we can buy players out the next season, when they cap hit is lower and only for 2 years.

But I'm sure gorton and jd know what they are doing and I trust them to build the team the right way. They did make Boston a perennial cup contender and st Louis a cup winner.

 

[Machinehead]

8/yr would be the absolute max I give Trouba.

He's a good solid player but he's not elite by any means.

 

[Riche16]

They are playing up the New Yawk stereotype pretty hard. Would have liked a bit more diversity aside from the section 400 crowd of Staten Island.

Between the one loser talking about his bloody hand from punching out the MSG light bulb to the double chin guy burning Ranger jerseys and renouncing fandom in favor of premier league soccer if we lose, not exactly proud company they are appealing to.

Did u live through it? Hoping w ur name and avatar u did and are old enough to remember.

I wasn’t burning jerseys or punching lights, but I turned my chair around in the bar, that had been, in games prior PACKED w NYR fans... looking at my friend w tears in my eyes after the devs went up 2-0 and saying “Man I can’t... I can’t watch this team do this AGAIN. I just can’t.” A goal occurs and I say so what. Then another. Then my friend says “You need to turn back around and watch this. You’ll never Forgive yourself if u don’t.”

The suffering we went through for that team and those leading up to that team was absolutely brutal. I don’t hold anything against anyone who suffered like that. It was a brutal comedy.

 

[Leetch3]

8/yr would be the absolute max I give Trouba.

He's a good solid player but he's not elite by any means.

well got good news for you 8 years is literally the longest deal you can give under the current cba. so little risk of them going longer than that

 

[Machinehead]

well got good news for you 8 years is literally the longest deal you can give under the current cba. so little risk of them going longer than that

You missed the slash so have another one

 

[egelband]

That's a horrible mentality for building a team for the future to be a perennial cup contender. Just deal with the cap implications in the future? The buyout method is not the way. I dont want to be in cap hell bc of dead cap space which is exactly what would happen in the years when we are ready to compete for the cup. I know people say it's only a few million here and there for the next 4 years, and it saves so much for this year.

Let's be honest, the cap has not been going up as expected, there is a lot of chatter that the cap will be set after next year and I doubt it will be at more than 85m. Having 4 to 6m in dead cap space in the future is a short sighted move for a rebuilding team. We need all the cap we can get to sign our own players, and make trades like we did with the trouba deal. Having cap space is a major asset to have in a cap world.

We are not competing for the cup this year nor are we even a playoff team yet. Trade the players that dont fit our rebuild. Krieder will want an Anders Lee type deal 7years 7m aav. No thanks not for a player who disappears for long stretches in games and for the season, trade him for picks and prospects. That's 4.5m off the cap. Then trade names for a 3rd like in the vesey deal. That's another 4m off. There is our 6.5m that we need in order to sign buch, DeAngelo, and lemieux. And if it's not just have them sign the qualifying offer and see if they are worth more money. Trade shatty at the deadline if we can.

Hopefully we play well but are still in the lottery and end up with a top 5 pick and get a franchise forward. Continue to build the right way. Then if we need to we can buy players out the next season, when they cap hit is lower and only for 2 years.

But I'm sure gorton and jd know what they are doing and I trust them to build the team the right way. They did make Boston a perennial cup contender and st Louis a cup winner.

I tend to agree here. I think a Smith buyout isn't the end of the world but I'd hope the Rangers do whatever they can to avoid kicking that can down the road. It's not a huge can but I'd prefer they deal with it now if possible.
That said, the Rangers have high-powered analytics so I trust they know what they have to do and they'll get the cap sorted.
My main hope is they just don't over pay guys who aren't difference-makers.

 

[Machinehead]

They are playing up the New Yawk stereotype pretty hard. Would have liked a bit more diversity aside from the section 400 crowd of Staten Island.

Between the one loser talking about his bloody hand from punching out the MSG light bulb to the double chin guy burning Ranger jerseys and renouncing fandom in favor of premier league soccer if we lose, not exactly proud company they are appealing to.

Well shit, I've done that. But I'm still here.

 

[Leetch3]

foolishness of some production crony. garbage.

at least they got the 'now i can die in peace' sign guys so we know who to win when we haven't won for 50+ years lol

 

[Chalfdiggity3]

I tend to agree here. I think a Smith buyout isn't the end of the world but I'd hope the Rangers do whatever they can to avoid kicking that can down the road. It's not a huge can but I'd prefer they deal with it now if possible.
That said, the Rangers have high-powered analytics so I trust they know what they have to do and they'll get the cap sorted.
My main hope is they just don't over pay guys who aren't difference-makers.

Yea the Smith buyout wouldnt be the end of the world I just see it as pointless. It does help this year but keep having millions on the cap for the next 4 years just to save money this year when we have other avenues available to us is mind boggling. I dont get the obsession with doing this. I know people think he is pointless to have on the team and while I agree to some point. He showed he can step in and play as a winger or defender. We have no idea if hajek, lindgren, or fox are ready to step in and play. They combined 10 games between them. .et them earn their spot and there is nothing wrong with having Smith and or Staal being able to come in and play if they cant handle it. Which this season I think is fine since we are not even a playoff bubble team yet.

But yes I'm in total agreement I trust the rangers brass now with jd and gorton fully at the helm.

 

[Good Intentions]

Yea the Smith buyout wouldnt be the end of the world I just see it as pointless. It does help this year but keep having millions on the cap for the next 4 years just to save money this year when we have other avenues available to us is mind boggling. I dont get the obsession with doing this. I know people think he is pointless to have on the team and while I agree to some point. He showed he can step in and play as a winger or defender. We have no idea if hajek, lindgren, or fox are ready to step in and play. They combined 10 games between them... Which this season I think is fine since we are not even a playoff bubble team yet.

...we are not a bubble team yet? Disagree - but not going to go there with you on that. Main topic below:

Your thoughts are convoluted. “I know some people think he’s pointless and I agree to some point.”

Respectfully, if you think Brendan Smith is ready to step in and play for a competitive NHL team in 2019-20, we are watching different leagues.

And I’m confident any of Hajek, Fox, Lindgren can step in a full tier above Smith. In fact, I’m confident all three can and will.

How’s that for confidence?

 

[egelband]

Yea the Smith buyout wouldnt be the end of the world I just see it as pointless. It does help this year but keep having millions on the cap for the next 4 years just to save money this year when we have other avenues available to us is mind boggling. I dont get the obsession with doing this. I know people think he is pointless to have on the team and while I agree to some point. He showed he can step in and play as a winger or defender. We have no idea if hajek, lindgren, or fox are ready to step in and play. They combined 10 games between them. .et them earn their spot and there is nothing wrong with having Smith and or Staal being able to come in and play if they cant handle it. Which this season I think is fine since we are not even a playoff bubble team yet.

But yes I'm in total agreement I trust the rangers brass now with jd and gorton fully at the helm.

Me too. I also like Smith as a fourth liner who can help out on defense of needed. He's just way overpriced. Which is no secret, of course. But I certainly don't hate him on the team.

 

[bobbop]

They are playing up the New Yawk stereotype pretty hard. Would have liked a bit more diversity aside from the section 400 crowd of Staten Island.

Between the one loser talking about his bloody hand from punching out the MSG light bulb to the double chin guy burning Ranger jerseys and renouncing fandom in favor of premier league soccer if we lose, not exactly proud company they are appealing to.

I've only seen those c lips one or a hundred times. Thanks for saving me an hour

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

8/yr would be the absolute max I give Trouba.

He's a good solid player but he's not elite by any means.

Ya I hope people don’t think of Trouba as top echelon 1D, I’m glad we have him but paying him 7.5/8 is gonna sting a bit. He’s a good top pairing D. I think he’s comparable to McDonagh when we traded him.

That said, I think he has the potential to take another step and become a high end 1D. We’ll see if he reaches that level here. I’ll be happy if he can just maintain his play from last season (not necessarily 50 points because I’m not expecting that type of production).

 

[Chalfdiggity3]

...we are not a bubble team yet? Disagree - but not going to go there with you on that. Main topic below:

Your thoughts are convoluted. “I know some people think he’s pointless and I agree to some point.”

Respectfully, if you think Brendan Smith is ready to step in and play for a competitive NHL team in 2019-20, we are watching different leagues.

And I’m confident any of Hajek, Fox, Lindgren can step in a full tier above Smith. In fact, I’m confident all three can and will.

How’s that for confidence?

What makes you think we are a bubble team? We added panarin yes.. but lost hayes and zuccarello. That's two very important pieces. We have no 2nd line center. And we are relying upon kakko and kratsov to have monster seasons in order to make up the difference. Thats a lot of pressure you are putting on the young kids to perform in their rookie year. Our defense is not much better with trouba bc we have Lindy ruff at the helm. And goaltending has not been our strong suit lately. This is not a bubble playoff team.

Smith was fine playing on the 4th line and Staal can mentor the kids. Again like I said we are not a competitive team yet. Let them be for this year till the kids lindgren, fox, and hajek show that they can handle starting and playing an 82 game season. They have 10 games of NHL experience between the three of them. Let Staal and Smith rotate in with the kids. You dont put young players in a spot where they cant succeed. It destroys their confidence and growth. That's how you become the Edmonton Oilers.

To me it's not worth the dead cap space in a cap era. We are still building a team. Rebuilds dont take 1 year, we have holes in this team and patience is key. If we continue to build this team right we can be competing for the cup every year for the next 10 years.

We obviously have different view points at where this team is at this point in time.

 

[Good Intentions]

What makes you think we are a bubble team? We added panarin yes.. but lost hayes and zuccarello. That's two very important pieces. We have no 2nd line center. And we are relying upon kakko and kratsov to have monster seasons in order to make up the difference. Thats a lot of pressure you are putting on the young kids to perform in their rookie year. Our defense is not much better with trouba bc we have Lindy ruff at the helm. And goaltending has not been our strong suit lately. This is not a bubble playoff team.

Smith was fine playing on the 4th line and Staal can mentor the kids. Again like I said we are not a competitive team yet. Let them be for this year till the kids lindgren, fox, and hajek show that they can handle starting and playing an 82 game season. They have 10 games of NHL experience between the three of them. Let Staal and Smith rotate in with the kids. You dont put young players in a spot where they cant succeed. It destroys their confidence and growth. That's how you become the Edmonton Oilers.

To me it's not worth the dead cap space in a cap era. We are still building a team. Rebuilds dont take 1 year, we have holes in this team and patience is key. If we continue to build this team right we can be competing for the cup every year for the next 10 years.

We obviously have different view points at where this team is at this point in time.

Good post.

We do disagree.

and Brendan Smith is nothing more than a temporary fill-in for a bad team in a bind. For a competitive NHL team, he’s below the grade for anything dressable. Moreover, he’s one of the lowest IQ players I’ve ever seen, completely irresponsible with a propensity for atrocious penalties and finding himself out of position. While he has some talent, he’s Exhibit A of what NOT to do as a dman.

I do not want him as an example of anything other than how to be a good dad in Hartford.

 

[Anzi]

Ya I hope people don’t think of Trouba as top echelon 1D, I’m glad we have him but paying him 7.5/8 is gonna sting a bit. He’s a good top pairing D. I think he’s comparable to McDonagh when we traded him.

That said, I think he has the potential to take another step and become a high end 1D. We’ll see if he reaches that level here. I’ll be happy if he can just maintain his play from last season (not necessarily 50 points because I’m not expecting that type of production).

There's quite a lot of defensemen who are better than Trouba but will be making less than him. In that regard, its definitely an overpay. I guess the hope is that the contract doesn't look too bad as the salary cap goes up and Trouba possibly improves as a player. But typically at the age of 25 or 26 its not unusual for players to have already hit their peak. They could take another step forward but its hardly a given.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Ya I wouldn’t say that Kakko and Kravstov have to have “monster seasons” to help us improve. If Kakko can put up 55, and Kravstov can put up 30, we’ve added two young scorers who could potentially improve as the season goes on.

I’d say that (essentially) swapping Hayes, Zuccarello, and Pionk for Panarin, Kakko, and Trouba is a massive improvement. The team wasn’t THAT bad when Hayes and Zucc were clicking, swap them out with a top ten offensive player and a very strong 2nd overall pick and the results will likely be better. Also replacing a blackhole with someone who’s really good is nice too.

 

[Machinehead]

Ya I hope people don’t think of Trouba as top echelon 1D, I’m glad we have him but paying him 7.5/8 is gonna sting a bit. He’s a good top pairing D. I think he’s comparable to McDonagh when we traded him.

That said, I think he has the potential to take another step and become a high end 1D. We’ll see if he reaches that level here. I’ll be happy if he can just maintain his play from last season (not necessarily 50 points because I’m not expecting that type of production).

I also don't feel like we're under pressure to sign him.

We can set a price and let him walk if he exceeds that price.

What do we lose? Pionk and 1st that wasn't ours to begin with?