Speculation: Roster Building Thread LIX: To trade or not to trade CK?

[Stasis]

Can't the same be said for one player on most every team?

I think we rank up pretty high with this one. We have ONE good center, with him down we have none. No one, as yet, who can remotely step into that role. I'm not talking playoffs even.

Many teams could lose key players and suffer, us included (and we have, quite a few times in our recent history and cup runs) and have depth to hold down the fort. Call ups, rookies stepping up, etc.

But losing our only great center? There's nothing to fill that void unless it's very short term. Having Panarin helps as he can drive play and be the playmaker with a competent C, but we're in a different boat than most teams with regards to losing a key player. In my opinion.

Like I said, not a big deal this season but it needs to be fixed if we're going to be remotely competitive anytime in the next 5 years. Don't need to have two all-star centers... just a 1B to go with Zib would work. Last year Hayes would (I'm happy we're not paying him 7x7, just saying production/skill wise it'd be fine). We have no one near that and none of the prospects have shown much promise in that position. Here's hoping Howden steps up or Chytil shows he will be more than a winger. Fairly certain both Kakko and Kravtsov will at least get looked at there, too. But that's a lot of hoping. If we even had a guy like Poehling in our system I'd be content.

edit: To be clear I'm not just talking this season, I'm talking the next 3. It's something we 100% have to address because assuming all else works out well with this group, which I think it will, that will be our Achilles heel and it's a hell of a one to have. Imagine the even worse playoff scenario? Guess who gets targeted and hit 40 times a game? (Yes, I am also aware star players on teams get targeted every playoff series, but we will likely have several of those the next time we're in it... spreads it out, potentially 3 stud wingers at once for other teams to look out for. But just one center. Easy decision there...) It's hell for match ups too since we have no one behind him to handle the rest. We'd be out quick. I know it, and JD, DQ, JG etc certainly know it. I know it will be addressed, I'm just really curious as to how and when. So if I'm looking to move someone of value, especially at the TDL, I'm definitely looking at a team that has a center prospect we can try to nab.

 

[Alluckks]

Besides this champion you mean

I said bottom 6 players, not 1C's

 

[Shesterkybomb]

The sky isnt falling. We have a number one center and 3 or 4 guys gunning for the 2 spot, it actually might encourage the guys to get another gear this summer. If Chytil, Howden or Anderson dont step up Strome can fill in for the year, and if that's a problem then Namestnicov can, I'm not worried about the center spot. My concern is the amount of older dmen taking cap space and roster spots from Fox, Hajek and anyone else who might be ready. I think we have enough centers and players who have played center ie Kravtsov and Kakko that someone will grab that spot.

 

[NYR Viper]

Would Calgary consider retaining half of the remaining Lucic contract to off load him? Edmonton hangs onto $750K and takes on Neal. Calgary trades Lucic with $2.625 retained and gains $2.625 in cap space. Honestly if the deal was:

To EDM
Neal
Retain $750k on Lucic

To Calgary
AHL player
Retain $2.625m on Lucic

To _____
Lucic @$2.625

That may work for all of those teams.

Calgary adds cap space and ride themselves of Neal.

Edmonton adds what should be a good top-6 winger

The 3rd team adds a 3rd/4th line winger with experience who is paid just below league average hoping to get him in a new situation.

I’m not saying the third team is the Rangers. Just that it would seem to work if that third team was even lukewarm towards Lucic

 

[Leetch3]

I think we rank up pretty high with this one. We have ONE good center, with him down we have none. No one, as yet, who can remotely step into that role. I'm not talking playoffs even.

Many teams could lose key players and suffer, us included (and we have, quite a few times in our recent history and cup runs) and have depth to hold down the fort. Call ups, rookies stepping up, etc.

But losing our only great center? There's nothing to fill that void unless it's very short term. Having Panarin helps as he can drive play and be the playmaker with a competent C, but we're in a different boat than most teams with regards to losing a key player. In my opinion.

Like I said, not a big deal this season but it needs to be fixed if we're going to be remotely competitive anytime in the next 5 years. Don't need to have two all-star centers... just a 1B to go with Zib would work. Last year Hayes would (I'm happy we're not paying him 7x7, just saying production/skill wise it'd be fine). We have no one near that and none of the prospects have shown much promise in that position. Here's hoping Howden steps up or Chytil shows he will be more than a winger. Fairly certain both Kakko and Kravtsov will at least get looked at there, too. But that's a lot of hoping. If we even had a guy like Poehling in our system I'd be content.

edit: To be clear I'm not just talking this season, I'm talking the next 3. It's something we 100% have to address because assuming all else works out well with this group, which I think it will, that will be our Achilles heel and it's a hell of a one to have. Imagine the even worse playoff scenario? Guess who gets targeted and hit 40 times a game? (Yes, I am also aware star players on teams get targeted every playoff series, but we will likely have several of those the next time we're in it... spreads it out, potentially 3 stud wingers at once for other teams to look out for. But just one center. Easy decision there...) It's hell for match ups too since we have no one behind him to handle the rest. We'd be out quick. I know it, and JD, DQ, JG etc certainly know it. I know it will be addressed, I'm just really curious as to how and when. So if I'm looking to move someone of value, especially at the TDL, I'm definitely looking at a team that has a center prospect we can try to nab.

its probably a good thing then that the team isn't even close to a finish product and they are still building it

 

[Paulie Walnutz]

Everyone keeps talking about clearing guys out for cap space but I haven’t really heard anyone mentioning Strome. Where does he fit on the team this year? As it stands right now you have Buchnevich(barring a trade), Kakko, and Kravtsov as the top 3 rw on the team. Then if you look at center you have the kids all competing for the 2 and 3 c. You figure Howden or Andersson will take the 3c and the other playing on the wing on that line. That leaves Chytil. You can try to see if he’s ready for the 2c, but what if he shows he’s ready but Strome is blocking him? Kind of like the Hayes situation from last year. Just a thought. To play devil’s advocate it could blow up in their faces by trading Strome giving all of the spots to the kids and they fall flat.

 

[Leetch3]

Everyone keeps talking about clearing guys out for cap space but I haven’t really heard anyone mentioning Strome. Where does he fit on the team this year? As it stands right now you have Buchnevich(barring a trade), Kakko, and Kravtsov as the top 3 rw on the team. Then if you look at center you have the kids all competing for the 2 and 3 c. You figure Howden or Andersson will take the 3c and the other playing on the wing on that line. That leaves Chytil. You can try to see if he’s ready for the 2c, but what if he shows he’s ready but Strome is blocking him? Kind of like the Hayes situation from last year. Just a thought. To play devil’s advocate it could blow up in their faces by trading Strome giving all of the spots to the kids and they fall flat.

strome has been brought up countless times...strome and namestnikov both provide insurance at center to protect the kids if needed. as a result we probably need to keep 1 of them unless there is a cheap alternative, trading the other should be a given/must. one of them will be gone

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

STromes 3.1 and Smiths 3.3 doesn’t do it for us

 

[Ola]

Would Calgary consider retaining half of the remaining Lucic contract to off load him? Edmonton hangs onto $750K and takes on Neal. Calgary trades Lucic with $2.625 retained and gains $2.625 in cap space. Honestly if the deal was:

To EDM
Neal
Retain $750k on Lucic

To Calgary
AHL player
Retain $2.625m on Lucic

To _____
Lucic @$2.625

That may work for all of those teams.

Calgary adds cap space and ride themselves of Neal.

Edmonton adds what should be a good top-6 winger

The 3rd team adds a 3rd/4th line winger with experience who is paid just below league average hoping to get him in a new situation.

I’m not saying the third team is the Rangers. Just that it would seem to work if that third team was even lukewarm towards Lucic

It does feel like Lucic’s problems goes past just losing a step, he faced some horrible stuff off the ice and lived a hard life on it. If that is the case, it’s probably best to just stay away.

But if he still can get his heart and soul into hockey and put everything into going to war on the ice — I do think the East is a much better fit for him. And your set-up definitely makes him a much more attractive player than with the contract he had in EDM... Its actually a pretty smart arrangement.

 

[Stasis]

its probably a good thing then that the team isn't even close to a finish product and they are still building it

I agree, which is why I'm totally fine with our center position this year (other than progress, as explained below). That said, there's nothing interesting in the pipeline and it's wishful thinking (I believe) to assume one of the three (Howden/Chytil/Andersson) will become what we need.

So it's not so much the NOW NOW NOW, it's the part where we realize there's nothing coming. Which is why I'd be content with having a guy like Poehling in the system. He's not ready yet but I think he will be sooner than later. If we had anything like that, well that's part of the build process.

Since we don't, it's pretty imperative that we acquire one asap if we're counting on developing him with this crew. Barring a surprise jump of progress from the aforementioned, which I'd love but doubt, we're entering this season not developing a center who can be a part of this nice core we're building. That's all I'm saying. I'd like us to be developing one alongside the Kakkos and Kravtsovs that we have. Ideally we'd have been doing that this season. I do believe Howden can be a great 3C and maybe Andersson too, or maybe one of them is our #4. Having them progress and be good #3 and #4 is fine for me. Chytil, arguably, has the best chance of becoming that 2C unless Howden really steps up, but so far he's looking more like a winger. If he can be successful in that role, that's great too as it adds some flexibility. I know it's very early yet and there are many question marks, lots of guys to develop and see what they become in the NHL. I love it. I'm just saying we're sorely lacking a C prospect that seems like he can make it to #2, in however many seasons that takes. Would be better to start it off now than next year. So I'd definitely love to have a decent C prospect back in any deal. There are many I'd like, I just name Poehling as an example since I'm high on him and think he has what it takes and would be a great fit. We're not getting him... but that doesn't mean we can't get someone else.

Sure, we can draft one next season, especially if we pick high or have more than one first-rounder. That's great, too. Still an additional year delay and centers take more time, much like power forwards and defense. I know we're not competing for a while, I don't expect nor even want it. I want to see this group grow together and become something special, I'm patient with that and fully understand where we're at. I'm 100% on board and was yearning for it before we even officially committed. I just find it to be an issue that we don't have at least one center prospect who, atm, can project as a #2.

So not acquiring one this season means we try to get one at the draft next year and/or acquire a UFA/trade for one. I'd like both. Get a young guy in sooner than later, and then add someone young but slightly proven with potential or slightly older (25/26) we can sign to decent term. That's the depth we need to build now seeing as every other position is good to great in terms of players/prospects moving forward. There are guys in every position who I think are, or will be, exactly what we need and have high ceilings... except for center.

I guess I sound like a broken record here, and maybe pessimistic. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love this off-season and how things have panned out. I'm just being realistic about the future and recognizing a very strong need we will have sooner than later, so the quicker we address that, the better it is for our build. If we don't or can't find the right guy(s) at C, then we have a fantastic team in 2-3 years that can compete but we're one injury away from failure. We've had two competent C's for quite some time, never a top tier guy, but nice tandems and some depth. Now we don't.

It's too bad Brassard fell off a cliff when he went to back to PIT and then FLA and COL last season. I imagine the team hopping didn't help, but the signs were already there. Otherwise he could be a nice fit to try for a year on a cheap show-me deal. Could bounce back and be a veteran 45pt guy with the right wingers and staying on one team all season. I know the whole "revisiting previous Rangers" thing gets a lot of flack, but he's a guy who should be pretty cheap that may have interest and would help. Not sure who else is out there.

 

[I Eat Crow]

What about Honka

He's pretty much a bust at this point.

I thought I would never say this, but the last thing we need is smallish right handed offensive defensemen right now.

 

[Tob]

Staal $2.8M, Smith/Beleskey/14th F $3.15M is $5.9M - $.9M overage on Trouba is $5M. $2.1M to ADA/Le Mew. $2.9M left for Buch. how long is Buch an RFA for?

 

[Leetch3]

STromes 3.1 and Smiths 3.3 doesn’t do it for us

depending on how much you sign the RFAs that gets you pretty close to what you need. If you give buch 3.25, deangelo 2.5 and lemieux 1.25 (combined $7 mil), I calculate that after sending down Belesky we need to clear 6,356,466...trading strome & buying out smith clears 6,479,1657...

considering i'm probably being generous with those RFA deals that gets us under the cap...I don't think they want to cut it that close but it gets use close to what we need. replace strome with names to clear another 900k obviously would be better.

but biggest key there is that then a trade of kreider would be a hockey trade and not forced by the cap

 

[egelband]

depending on how much you sign the RFAs that gets you pretty close to what you need. If you give buch 3.25, deangelo 2.5 and lemieux 1.25 (combined $7 mil), I calculate that after sending down Belesky we need to clear 6,356,466...trading strome & buying out smith clears 6,479,1657...

considering i'm probably being generous with those RFA deals that gets us under the cap...I don't think they want to cut it that close but it gets use close to what we need. replace strome with names to clear another 900k obviously would be better.

but biggest key there is that then a trade of kreider would be a hockey trade and not forced by the cap

Well said. Particularly in stressing a potential Kreider trade needs to be a hockey one. The rest (not Buchnevich) can be dumps.
I would add that maybe the "2C of the future" could be the return for Kreider. Maybe you get someone quite promising if you move Kreider and Buchnevich as a package. Take back a little salary if need be. That's where maybe the Rangers sign Buchnevich first for a longer-term deal, he wouldn't get trade protection, then move him signed. That's a good value.

 

[Mikos87]

depending on how much you sign the RFAs that gets you pretty close to what you need. If you give buch 3.25, deangelo 2.5 and lemieux 1.25 (combined $7 mil), I calculate that after sending down Belesky we need to clear 6,356,466...trading strome & buying out smith clears 6,479,1657...

considering i'm probably being generous with those RFA deals that gets us under the cap...I don't think they want to cut it that close but it gets use close to what we need. replace strome with names to clear another 900k obviously would be better.

but biggest key there is that then a trade of kreider would be a hockey trade and not forced by the cap

Good post. The scenario I see is that they give Buch a 3 year bridge- which would be new for the Rangers and he gets the Andreas Johnsson deal. Signing bonus and all.

But ADA and Lemmy have to accept their qualifiers or a shade above their qualifiers on their 1 year deals. ADA has shown more, but Lemmy doesn't have any NHL leverage. It would be a similar more to what the Rangers did with JT Miller when he was coming off of his ELC.

So it becomes:

Buch $3.4M
ADA- $900K
Lemmy- $900K

Total of $5.2M.

Say the Rangers have to clear $6M. A Smith buyout gets you $3.3M.

Now you have to clear $2.7M.

A Names buyout would get you $2.67M.

Two of Nieves/McKegg/Kid on ELC gets sent down.

Not ideal for 2020-2021 cause your dead space would roughly be what you have in 2019-2020 + another $1.1M, but it's a very manageable scenario if a team isn't going to help provide cap relief.

 

[NYR Viper]

The other thing to consider is that while the team may be tight to start the season and may appear to need to roll over some potential bonuses, if they sell at or just before the deadline, say Kreider and someone like Shattenkirk, they could seriously bank some additional cap space those final 20 games to help mitigate that rollover.

 

[ETTER DE]

Everyone keeps talking about clearing guys out for cap space but I haven’t really heard anyone mentioning Strome. Where does he fit on the team this year? As it stands right now you have Buchnevich(barring a trade), Kakko, and Kravtsov as the top 3 rw on the team. Then if you look at center you have the kids all competing for the 2 and 3 c. You figure Howden or Andersson will take the 3c and the other playing on the wing on that line. That leaves Chytil. You can try to see if he’s ready for the 2c, but what if he shows he’s ready but Strome is blocking him? Kind of like the Hayes situation from last year. Just a thought. To play devil’s advocate it could blow up in their faces by trading Strome giving all of the spots to the kids and they fall flat.

I thought Kravtsov was best at LW?

 

[kovazub94]

Add Nashville, Dallas and my sleeper team St. Louis. All have enough space to add Kreider.

Dallas?

 

[ETTER DE]

depending on how much you sign the RFAs that gets you pretty close to what you need. If you give buch 3.25, deangelo 2.5 and lemieux 1.25 (combined $7 mil), I calculate that after sending down Belesky we need to clear 6,356,466...trading strome & buying out smith clears 6,479,1657...

considering i'm probably being generous with those RFA deals that gets us under the cap...I don't think they want to cut it that close but it gets use close to what we need. replace strome with names to clear another 900k obviously would be better.

but biggest key there is that then a trade of kreider would be a hockey trade and not forced by the cap

dont you forget that when you sign the 3 RFAs you can send down 3 players? 7 mill for the RFAs means 4 mill extra to the cap.

 

[Gospel of Prospal]

What about the Wild? They could add Kreider and reunite him with Zucc. Or the Ducks?

 

[Leetch3]

dont you forget that when you sign the 3 RFAs you can send down 3 players? 7 mill for the RFAs means 4 mill extra to the cap.

I was already counting those 3 on the roster so anyone that would be send down was already removed...I didn't replace players traded away or bought out though. we don't need to replace smith since we'd still have 7 dmen, but you would have to replace strome so add in nieves or mckegg for 700k. so that puts us a little short if you gave those RFA contracts, but its still in the ballpark

 

[bobbop]

Dallas?

Hanzal LTIR

 

[aufheben]

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