Salary Cap: Roster-Building Pt. XXI| (Fun Title Here)| Kunitz Proposal Here

[DegenX]

All figures are cap numbers, not salaries.

2016-17 salary ceiling​

​

​

|

73,000,000​

​

​

Pens' projected spending |

76,114,806​

Approx. LTIR cushion |

3,750,000​

Deadline cap space |

903,231​

PITTSBURGH PENGUINS

Forward.................​

|

Pos.​

|

Age​

|

2016-17​

|

2017-18​

|

2018-19​

Evgeni Malkin|

C​

|

30​

|

9,500,000​

|

9,500,000​

|

9,500,000​

Sidney Crosby|

C​

|

28​

|

8,700,000​

|

8,700,000​

|

8,700,000​

Phil Kessel|

RW​

|

28​

|

6,800,000​

|

6,800,000​

|

6,800,000​

Patric Hornqvist|

RW​

|

29​

|

4,250,000​

|

4,250,000​

|

UFA​

Carl Hagelin|

LW​

|

27​

|

4,000,000​

|

4,000,000​

|

4,000,000​

Chris Kunitz|

LW​

|

36​

|

3,850,000​

|

UFA​

Eric Fehr|

RW​

|

30​

|

2,000,000​

|

2,000,000​

|

UFA​

Nick Bonino|

C​

|

28​

|

1,900,000​

|

UFA​

Matt Cullen|

C​

|

39​

|

1,000,000​

|

UFA​

Conor Sheary|

LW​

|

24​

|

667,500​

|

RFA​

Bryan Rust|

RW​

|

24​

|

640,000​

|

640,000​

|

RFA​

Scott Wilson|

LW​

|

24​

|

625,000​

|

625,000​

|

RFA​

Tom Kuhnhackl|

LW​

|

24​

|

625,000​

|

625,000​

|

RFA​

Defense.................​

|

Pos.​

|

Age​

|

2016-17​

|

2017-18​

|

.2018-19​

Kris Letang|

D​

|

29​

|

7,250,000​

|

7,250,000​

|

7,250,000​

Olli Maatta|

D​

|

21​

|

4,083,333​

|

4,083,333​

|

4,083,333​

Trevor Daley|

D​

|

32​

|

3,300,000​

|

UFA​

Ian Cole|

D​

|

27​

|

2,100,000​

|

2,100,000​

|

UFA​

Justin Schultz|

D​

|

26​

|

1,400,000​

|

RFA​

Brian Dumoulin|

D​

|

24​

|

800,000​

|

RFA​

Steve Oleksy|

D​

|

30​

|

575,000​

|

UFA​

Goalie............,.......​

|

Pos.​

|

Age​

|

2016-17​

|

2017-18​

|

.2018-19​

Marc-Andre Fleury|

G​

|

31​

|

5,750,000​

|

5,750,000​

|

5,750,000​

Matt Murray|

G​

|

22​

|

620,000​

|

3,750,000​

|

3,750,000​

|

RFA​

Injured reserve.....​

|

Pos.​

|

Age​

|

2016-17​

|

2017-18​

|

.2018-19​

Pascal Dupuis|

RW​

|

37​

|

3,750,000​

|

UFA​

Retained salary.....​

|

Pos.​

|

Age​

|

2016-17​

|

2017-18​

|

.2018-19​

Rob Scuderi|

D​

|

37​

|

1,125,000​

WILKES-BARRE/SCRANTON PENGUINS

Forward...............​

|

Pos.​

|

Age​

|

2016-17​

|

2017-18​

|

2018-19​

Thomas Di Pauli|

C​

|

22​

|

742,500​

|

742,500​

|

RFA​

Jake Guentzel|

LW​

|

21​

|

734,167​

|

734,167​

|

734,167​

Teddy Blueger|

C​

|

21​

|

705,000​

|

705,000​

|

RFA​

Oskar Sundqvist|

C​

|

22​

|

700,833​

|

RFA​

Dominik Simon|

C​

|

21​

|

692,500​

|

692,500​

|

RFA​

Josh Archibald|

RW​

|

23​

|

659,167​

|

RFA​

Carter Rowney|

RW​

|

26​

|

612,500​

|

612,500​

|

UFA​

Jean-Sebastien Dea|

C​

|

22​

|

585,000​

|

RFA​

Kevin Porter|

C​

|

30​

|

575,000​

|

UFA​

Garrett Wilson|

LW​

|

25​

|

575,000​

|

UFA​

Danny Kristo|

RW​

|

26​

|

575,000​

|

UFA​

Tom Sestito|

LW​

|

28​

|

575,000​

|

UFA​

Defense...............​

|

Pos.​

|

Age​

|

2016-17​

|

2017-18​

|

2018-19​

Derrick Pouliot|

D​

|

22​

|

863,333​

|

RFA​

Ethan Prow|

D​

|

23​

|

730,000​

|

730,000​

|

RFA​

Lukas Bengtsson|

D​

|

22​

|

705,000​

|

705,000​

|

RFA​

David Warsofsky|

D​

|

26​

|

575,000​

|

UFA​

Chad Ruhwedel|

D​

|

26​

|

575,000​

|

UFA​

Cameron Gaunce|

D​

|

26​

|

575,000​

|

UFA​

Stuart Percy|

D​

|

23​

|

575,000​

|

RFA​

Tim Erixon|

D​

|

25​

|

575,000​

|

RFA​

Goalie..................​

|

Pos.​

|

Age​

|

2016-17​

|

2017-18​

|

2018-19​

Tristan Jarry|

G​

|

21​

|

589,167​

|

589,167​

|

RFA​

WHEELING NAILERS

Goalie..................​

|

Pos.​

|

Age​

|

2016-17​

|

2017-18​

|

2018-19​

Sean Maguire|

G​

|

23​

|

705,000​

|

705,000​

|

RFA​

SIGNED PROSPECTS

Player​

|

Pos.​

|

Age​

|

Current Team​

|

Contract​

Daniel Sprong|

F​

|

19​

|

Charlottetown (QMJHL)​

|

2 years, $692,500 per​

UNSIGNED PROSPECTS

Player​

​

​

|

Pos.​

|

Age​

|

Current Team (League)​

Niclas Almari|

D​

|

18​

|HPK (Liiga)

Anthony Angello|

F​

|

20​

|Cornell (ECAC)

Dane Birks|

D​

|

20​

|Michigan Tech (WCHA)

Kasper Bjorkqvist|

F​

|

18​

|Providence (HEA)

Blaine Byron|

F​

|

21​

|Maine (HEA)

Filip Gustavsson|

G​

|

18​

|Luleå HF (SHL)

Connor Hall|

D​

|

18​

|Kitchener (OHL)

Ryan Jones|

D​

|

20​

|Nebraska-Omaha (NCHC)

Troy Josephs|

F​

|

22​

|Clarkson (ECAC)

Sam Lafferty|

F​

|

21​

|Brown (ECAC)

Joe Masonius|

D​

|

19​

|Connecticut (HEA)

Nikita Pavlychev|

F​

|

19​

|Penn State (B1G)

Alexander Pechurskiy|

G​

|

26​

|Amur Khabarovsk (KHL)

Jeff Taylor|

D​

|

22​

|Union (ECAC)

Frederik Tiffels|

F​

|

21​

|Western Michigan (NCHC)

Dominik Uher|

C​

|

23​

|HC Sparta Praha (ELH)

***Just getting this ready now so the last few posts from the old thread can be copied into this one***

Click to read more...

 

[molon labe]

Our defense just looks confused about it's place on the ice at times. Join the rush? Shoot on net? - They're an offensively geared blue line that don't play like it. Is that a coach thing, or?..

I'm also back to wondering what our forward group is going to look like going forward. I really like Guentzel on this team. When Kunitz is healthy who is he going to replace? The consensus is Kuhn(?), but even that's not all fine and dandy... Kuhn is awesome on the PK and NEEDS ice time. Kunitz has maxed his potential and has been on a serious decline for a while now.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

Our defense just looks confused about it's place on the ice at times. Join the rush? Shoot on net? - They're an offensively geared blue line that don't play like it. Is that a coach thing, or?

I've had some suspicions that Jacques Martin isn't doing the greatest of work right now, seeing how he is the one who oversees the defense and the PK.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Our defense just looks confused about it's place on the ice at times. Join the rush? Shoot on net? - They're an offensively geared blue line that don't play like it. Is that a coach thing, or?..

I'm also back to wondering what our forward group is going to look like going forward. I really like Guentzel on this team. When Kunitz is healthy who is he going to replace? The consensus is Kuhn(?), but even that's not all fine and dandy... Kuhn is awesome on the PK and NEEDS ice time. Kunitz has maxed his potential and has been on a serious decline for a while now.

If it was one or two defenseman I wouldn't be looking at the coaching but it's been a widespread and consistent problem. I've found them less out of it offensively recently but they are still capable of more. It's been a rough season for the top 4, tbh.

Kunitz will be given every opportunity to take his spot back.

 

[Ugene Magic]

I'm hoping when Pouliot gets back that they can start using him more to help spell guys since the back to backs have been often and continue to be this month.

They have been taxed heavily. They need to get through Dec. and maybe JR will bless them with some fresh wheels in the way of depth.

 

[Gurglesons]

I'm really surprised by people's assessment of Schultz. I think he has been horrid, especially given for the most part he is averaging under 17 minutes. It seems like Cole is the more offensive player on that line consistently taking shots and pinching. Honestly, Ian Cole has done a lot to change my opinion of him this year.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Shero's plan was not BPA. It was draft only PMD dmen and trade them for needs. If you have a need, you draft a need. You can't always do BPA and then hope you can trade it for the need.

Yes, it was. The fact that he took mostly PMDs isn't an argument against BPA, since by definition going the BPA route means you are probably going to get a surplus at one position.

And Shero had plenty of opportunities to move those PMDs, including Pouliot at the end of his tenure. He chose not to.

That's been a common refrain for years, but it doesn't stand up to even cursory scrutiny. The only D...perhaps the only player...who was trapped behind a veteran he was better than under Shero's administration was Despres, and that was only for a half-season, which doesn't exactly constitute being "left to rot."

Rest of the "talented" D were either playing (Maatta, Bortuzzo), not ready yet (Dumoulin, Pouliot) or have subsequently proven to be terrible at this level (Morrow, Harrington).

Sure it does.

Neither Bortuzzo nor Despres were regulars when we were healthy in '13-'14 while expensive driftwood like latter day Orpik and Scuderi were taking up cap space. Are you suggesting that we wouldn't have been a better team had we not started Bort and Despres in their place and allocated that money to quality forwards instead of stopgaps?

 

[KIRK]

If it was one or two defenseman I wouldn't be looking at the coaching but it's been a widespread and consistent problem. I've found them less out of it offensively recently but they are still capable of more. It's been a rough season for the top 4, tbh.

Kunitz will be given every opportunity to take his spot back.

Kunitz will be handed his spot back. He won't have to earn it.

 

[sf expat71]

Who do we trade for to stop our stretch pass-esque controlled break out that hasn't worked in weeks?

 

[KIRK]

Who do we trade for to stop our stretch pass-esque controlled break out that hasn't worked in weeks?

JR isn't trading Sully.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Kunitz will be handed his spot back. He won't have to earn it.

Considering Guentzel was scratched tonight for some reason (was it ever mentioned why?), that's probably a safe bet.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

If you ask me, I'm not too sure that another winger is that much of a need for us, after Sheary keeps producing and Guentzel keeps impressing. Our LW on paper, has not been this good for ages. Hagelin just needs to break this slump of his.

Defense is iffy. It isn't consistent. I may be in the minority of wanting to replace Jacques Martin before we make a move though.

Edit: Just realized that Guentzel was scratched for Wilson last night. WTF...

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Yes, it was. The fact that he took mostly PMDs isn't an argument against BPA, since by definition going the BPA route means you are probably going to get a surplus at one position.

And Shero had plenty of opportunities to move those PMDs, including Pouliot at the end of his tenure. He chose not to.



Sure it does.

Neither Bortuzzo nor Despres were regulars when we were healthy in '13-'14 while expensive driftwood like latter day Orpik and Scuderi were taking up cap space. Are you suggesting that we wouldn't have been a better team had we not started Bort and Despres in their place and allocated that money to quality forwards instead of stopgaps?

No it wasnt, he routinely took D over F because they were D. And he thought there was more beneficial to trade the D later on. Thats the opposite of BPA.

And no taking BPA DOESNT mean you will usually have a surplus in one spot over the long haul 3 year aample those will usually balance out the odds of the BPA always being a D or F or whatever over 20-30 picks isnt realistic.

If you take the BPA the balance will usually take care of itself.

Also being unwilling or bad at trading any surplus if and when it happens is an entirely different argument. Being bad at the plan doesnt disqualify the plan. For example, if you cant scout it doesnt matter what plan you use. Another example, everone one here torched the three line model for year even though it was proven to work in 09 and last year. The problem with our three line model in between was relying on Brandon Sutter to be the linchpin in one of those lines. If you do it right and have Kessel or Staal it works totally different.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

No it wasnt, he routinely took D over F because they were D. And he thought there was more beneficial to trade the D later on. Thats the opposite of BPA.

And no taking BPA DOESNT mean you will usually have a surplus in one spot over the long haul 3 year aample those will usually balance out the odds of the BPA always being a D or F or whatever over 20-30 picks isnt realistic.

If you take the BPA the balance will usually take care of itself.

No, he didn't. He repeatedly talked about drafting BPA here, and continues to do so in NJ.

There's nothing in that draft philosophy that suggests things will "balance out" position-wise. The whole definition of BPA implies that at some point you're probably going to have to move from strength to address weakness precisely because you're NOT concerned with balancing things out. You're only concerned with acquiring what your scouting suggests is the best talent available.

 

[DoktorZaius]

No, he didn't. He repeatedly talked about drafting BPA here, and continues to do so in NJ.

There's nothing in that draft philosophy that suggests things will "balance out" position-wise. The whole definition of BPA implies that at some point you're probably going to have to move from strength to address weakness precisely because you're NOT concerned with balancing things out. You're only concerned with acquiring what your scouting suggests is the best talent available.

Part of the discrepancy is that it's very possible Shero and/or his scouts overvalued PMD relative to other types/positions to the point where he was viewing these guys as BPA even though few others would agree (Pouliot over Forsberg being a prime example).

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Part of the discrepancy is that it's very possible Shero and/or his scouts overvalued PMD relative to other types/positions to the point where he was viewing these guys as BPA even though few others would agree (Pouliot over Forsberg being a prime example).

Very true. But they still went with what they considered BPA, and they still did very well getting value relative to draft position over Shero's tenure using that philosophy.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Chris Thorburn got us Ian Cole. Not sure why I thought of that when I was reading this thread.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

No, he didn't. He repeatedly talked about drafting BPA here, and continues to do so in NJ.

There's nothing in that draft philosophy that suggests things will "balance out" position-wise. The whole definition of BPA implies that at some point you're probably going to have to move from strength to address weakness precisely because you're NOT concerned with balancing things out. You're only concerned with acquiring what your scouting suggests is the best talent available.

Ray Shero drafted with the BPA strategy in the same way Dan Bylsma believed he was icing the best lineup possible by playing Tanner Glass and Craig Adams over Beau Bennett and Jussi Jokinen.

 

[Doogle]

Watching that game last night, it made me think....maybe the Stars would take a slight downgrade on defense for an upgrade at goaltender. I know their defense isn't really great to begin with, but maybe they figure bad defense+bad goalie is worse than slightly more bad defense+good goalie. So what I'm proposing is trading Pouliot and Fleury for Niemi and Honka. We could use a right handed defenseman. We could also use a backup goalie if Fleury is out, and one who can help us win a few games if needed. They desperately need a starter who isn't going to bury their chances of winning. A goalie could be the difference between legitimate Stanley Cup contention and falling out of the playoffs for them. And it's not like Pouliot is a bad player by any means. Young and needs development, but that could be said of most of the Stars defense. He could turn out even better than Honka long term, but for us, it seems we have soured on him as a prospect.

TLDR: Honka and Niemi for Fleury and Pouliot

 

[DesertPenguin]

Watching that game last night, it made me think....maybe the Stars would take a slight downgrade on defense for an upgrade at goaltender. I know their defense isn't really great to begin with, but maybe they figure bad defense+bad goalie is worse than slightly more bad defense+good goalie. So what I'm proposing is trading Pouliot and Fleury for Niemi and Honka. We could use a right handed defenseman. We could also use a backup goalie if Fleury is out, and one who can help us win a few games if needed. They desperately need a starter who isn't going to bury their chances of winning. A goalie could be the difference between legitimate Stanley Cup contention and falling out of the playoffs for them. And it's not like Pouliot is a bad player by any means. Young and needs development, but that could be said of most of the Stars defense. He could turn out even better than Honka long term, but for us, it seems we have soured on him as a prospect.

TLDR: Honka and Niemi for Fleury and Pouliot

Who sits on D for Honka? Schultz/Cole has looked awful good lately. Letang is going nowhere obviously. So Honka slides into Daley's spot, and then Daley displaces who on the left? Dumo was a one game HS but when hes on, which is most of the time, he is real solid. Maatta has been improving a bunch too.

 

[SEALBound]

Very true. But they still went with what they considered BPA, and they still did very well getting value relative to draft position over Shero's tenure using that philosophy.

After the Neal-Gogo trade, Shero's philosophy changed. The league was starting to value PMDs A LOT more.

In 2009, it was Despres. In 2010, it was Bennett. Then the Gogo-Neal trade came about and in 2011 it was Morrow and Harrington. I remember the Morrow pick and analysts being somewhat surprised but not totally blown away. Morrow had a fantastic year in the the WHL with Portland. I can understand that pick however in 2010 and 2011, it was clear that we were a weak team in the bottom 6 and on the wings. I don't remember the Harrington pick as well.

In 2012, Shero had already talked about hoarding PMDs and trading them for wings. There is certainly a value hierarchy for player positions. Centers are more valuable than wings. PMDs are more valuable than wings. That's been said by a couple GMs. Pens were high on Pouliot, sure, but damn near everyone had Forsberg, Grigorenko, Girgensons, and Trouba above Pouliot. Scouts had Maatta ranked above Pouliot for gosh sakes. I remember Hertl being a wild card top 10 pick too. Point is, Penguins wanted a PMD and they wanted Pouliot. He was consensus first round pick but certainly not #8. Forsberg was a top 5 pick by several scouts. In this case, Shero 100% did not take BPA. He took what his drafting "strategy" told him to take. Maatta "fell" to us and everyone was shocked he fell that far and it was a no brainer pick for the Penguins to take him there so that's much more understandable.

That was a draft where if you did do BPA we would have been much better off than we are now. If we drafted based on need, we would have been much better off than we are now. However, we had to deal with Shero and his is team's draft strategy that never came to fruition. That 2012 draft is awesome to go back and look at though. Looking at rankings, IIRC, Zlobin was a 2nd/3rd round talent and Sundqvist was a 7th rd talent. But they were basically swapped. Sundy looks ready to breakout, Zlobin couldn't make it work. That's the crapshoot that is the draft.

Now, getting back to reality. We have no idea where we will draft, if we trade the first, or who raises/falls in terms of prospects. FYI, Laine was ranked 10th this time last year. If it comes down to there being a center, wing, dman, and goalie all ranked approximately the same in terms of value, we would take the center. I have no doubt in my mind that JR and Co would take the center. Now if it gets to us and a Maatta like dman "falls" to us, sure take him. If a Forsberg level wing "falls" to us, sure take him. But assuming we get to a stage where the prospects likely to be taken get taken, and we are left with equal value prospects, we will likely take the center. Why, because that is the organizational need in the prospect pool right now. We have several dmen. So many that good dmen are getting sent to ECHL. Wings are doing well with Guentzel, Sprong, Rust/Kuhn/Wilson/Sheary, Simon, and Rowney/Kristo (psh). Centers we basically have Sundqvist. We have Simon and Guentzel listed as centers but we all know better - if they make it, it's at wing. Dea and Porter are WBS centers but they are not legit NHL prospects in my eyes. So if you look at what we have and what we may need in 4-5 years, it's a good center prospect. We have Sundqvist looking to make the jump...but after that...we have nothing. In 4-5 years (which is how long it typically takes with our 2012 guys just starting to come to fruition), Geno will be 35, Bones may not even be here or if he is he'll be 33, Sid will be 34, Sundy will be 27 and in his prime, Cullen and Fehr will be a no more than a memory. Rust/Kuhn/Wilson/Sprong/Guentzel/etc will all be in their prime. We have dmen now (Pouliot, Bengtsson, Prow, Percy maybe, and slew of recent draft picks) that could be taking over but in reality it will still be Letang, Maatta, and Dumo in some capacity.

Looking at who we have now in the system and considering player positional values, I do not see us being able to trade for a 2C without sending out major assets. And who knows what our major assets will even be at that point. Point is, in 4-5 years, we will have the dmen, we will have the wings, we will have the goalies, we will have the NHL vets...we will not have a center outside Sundqvist. That's a problem. Draft the center. It's really not that hard.

 

[Riptide]

So what I'm proposing is trading Pouliot and Fleury for Niemi and Honka. We could use a right handed defenseman.

TLDR: Honka and Niemi for Fleury and Pouliot

Two things come to mind. A) That Dallas is stacked at LD and weak at RD - both on their NHL team and their prospect pool. B) that as both Honka and Pouliot need to be protected, perhaps they'd like the chances that Pouliot would not get taken over Honka in the expansion draft. And that even if he does, DAL is still better off then if they kept things the same and lost Honka.

Who sits on D for Honka? Schultz/Cole has looked awful good lately. Letang is going nowhere obviously. So Honka slides into Daley's spot, and then Daley displaces who on the left? Dumo was a one game HS but when hes on, which is most of the time, he is real solid. Maatta has been improving a bunch too.

Honestly, not that worried about it this year. Honka is a legitimate prospect who could step in for either Schultz or Daley next season and give us options going forward. Good RD are hard as **** to find, so if this was something DAL was willing to do, I'd jump all over it. My concern would be how to decide who to expose. Because if we wanted to protect Honka, we'd have to sacrifice one of our forwards. And if we didn't protect Honka, if given the choice between him or Kuhnhackl/Wilson/etc, Honka gets picked every time. That or you're paying someone not to take Honka (which thankfully is a lot cheaper then paying not to take MM).

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Ray Shero drafted with the BPA strategy in the same way Dan Bylsma believed he was icing the best lineup possible by playing Tanner Glass and Craig Adams over Beau Bennett and Jussi Jokinen.

Except Shero's strategy paid dividends over time (in terms of acquiring talent, anyway), anecdotal evidence (Forsberg/Saad) notwithstanding.

 

[ColePens]

I think there is a middle ground there. I think Shero ****ed up by ignoring some top end talent, but we also got lucky a lot of guys panned out. So credit is deserved and a lot of criticizing is deserved. Shero was both very good and sometimes just bad.

Still a top 20 GM, IMO.

 

[Doogle]

Who sits on D for Honka? Schultz/Cole has looked awful good lately. Letang is going nowhere obviously. So Honka slides into Daley's spot, and then Daley displaces who on the left? Dumo was a one game HS but when hes on, which is most of the time, he is real solid. Maatta has been improving a bunch too.

Schultz is probably pricing himself out of town, and it would be wise to have a younger replacement for Daley. Honka would help us a little this year, but the move would be made more for the future. The lack of right handed d is the bigger concern for the Stars I'll admit, but they might think that a starting goaltender is a bigger need than one of many defenseman, considering it's been their biggest issue for a couple of years now.