Line Combos: Roster 2021-2022

[Skidooboy]

Talking about what Copp has done in the past is not talking about his potential. "#5 among the Jets' forwards in goals/60 last season" is not potential.

No one says that Copp is "special". But he can bring better D and add some physicality to a top 6 line. Whether that makes him the best fit for that spot is debatable, but he is not playing there to be a big goal scorer.

here's the point. i don't want him to be Special" just an average scorer for a top six NHL player.


Copp only fulfills half the duty of a top six player. I'm not saying he has to be a top scorer. And yeah we need someone who can help be responsible on all the lines.... but he needs to be able to kick in the freebies his line-mates hand him......but the guy has hands of stone and those chances remain unburied, which means a lot of games are lost that should be tied or won.


you can point to the one covid shortened crazy in division only weird season and call that evidence? I guess...


But outside of that 1 crazy year Copp has seen a lot of ice time and a lot of trust from this organization and breaking 15 goals ONCE in 6 years..... sorry . NOT TOP SIX NUMBERS.

 

[Whileee]

Yeah…. That’s a single season….a crazy weird single season with no real comprables…. And Copp Had a career high shooting percentage…doubtful he keeps it up.

if he can I’ll be extremely happy,. I see how good he is away from the puck…

But last night, with the setups he had…. Yeah he should have had at least one…. And it just looked like the same old player who can do everything but shoot and score.

Over the past several seasons, Copp's individual shooting percentage has been around 9.5%. That's not great, but higher than Wheeler or Armia over that timeframe, and nobody seems to think of them as "stone hands". His goals/60 at 5v5 is about the same as Roslovic's and a bit lower than Little and Perreault over the past 5 seasons.

Copp hasn't shown great hands, but I think he's improved in that area over the past couple of seasons.

 

[surixon]

Over the past several seasons, Copp's individual shooting percentage has been around 9.5%. That's not great, but higher than Wheeler or Armia over that timeframe, and nobody seems to think of them as "stone hands". His goals/60 at 5v5 is about the same as Roslovic's and a bit lower than Little and Perreault over the past 5 seasons.

Copp hasn't shown great hands, but I think he's improved in that area over the past couple of seasons.

Well Wheeler is first and foremost a playmaker so not really sure why you are equating his goal rates to his hands as that has never been his forte. Wheeler's shot has also declined greatly the last 3 to 4 years and he's no longer physically able to get himself to the same scoring spots as he once was. Not a real apt comparison as he's morphed into more of a permiter playmaker imo.

Armia is a good third line guy so I guess the comp is apt there.

If Copp can play a Hyman type role for Dubois and Ehelers then great but I'm not expecting a tonne of points from him.

 

[WolfHouse]

I thought we weren’t allowed to ever say anything bad about Armia on here...

 

[libertarian]

Copp is an excellent, valuable... third liner. He has great chemistry with Lowry and with the other talented guys we have, we don't need to try and make Copp a finisher on a scoring line.

I agree totally with this. Copp and Lowry together may be one of the best 3rd liners in the league so why mess with success?

That said Copp has always stated he believes he can play higher in the line up. I wonder if he made a verbal deal with Chevy and Moe that if he signs for a one year contract at the AAV he did that the Jets would give Copp a serious look on the top 6.

 

[Skidooboy]

Well Wheeler is first and foremost a playmaker so not really sure why you are equating his goal rates to his hands as that has never been his forte. Wheeler's shot has also declined greatly the last 3 to 4 years and he's no longer physically able to get himself to the same scoring spots as he once was. Not a real apt comparison as he's morphed into more of a permiter playmaker imo.

Armia is a good third line guy so I guess the comp is apt there.

If Copp can play a Hyman type role for Dubois and Ehelers then great but I'm not expecting a tonne of points from him.

those guys put the puck in the net. reliably. don't care about fancy stats. nobody wins a cup on paper. in the real world you need real pucks in real nets. Wheeler does that. At an elite level for his position....

Wheeler is a 20+ goal man for the last 7 years(excluding covid and was on a similar pace last year too.) at the tail end of a LOOONG CAREER...

Copp is in his prime.

soo the comparison is also kind of BS.

because as we saw last night...with a great play to set him up multiple times, even on the PP...nothing. same old stone hands..

 

[WolfHouse]

Maybe we can wait until we’ve played four preseason games before writing off Copp?

 

[Skidooboy]

those guys put the puck in the net. reliably. don't care about fancy stats. nobody wins a cup on paper. in the real world you need real pucks in real nets. Wheeler does that. At an elite level for his position....

Wheeler is a 20+ goal man for the last 7 years(excluding covid and was on a similar pace last year too.) at the tail end of a LOOONG CAREER...

Copp is in his prime.

soo the comparison is also kind of BS.

because as we saw last night...with a great play to set him up multiple times, even on the PP...nothing. same old stone hands..

I take part of that back...Wheeler doesn't score goals at an elite level...... but he does score points at an elite level..something elsde Copp doesn't do...but he (Wheeler)does reliably put the puck in the net.

 

[Skidooboy]

Maybe we can wait until we’ve played four preseason games before writing off Copp?

Look I like Copp. but he isn't a top 6 guy. he just isn't.

it's not 1 preseason game though is it?

How about 6 seasons? 411 games.


61 goals 149 points in 6 seasons 411 games.
it's not a lot for a guy who says he deserves top six money and ice.

 

[DannyGallivan]

Look I like Copp. but he isn't a top 6 guy. he just isn't.

it's not 1 preseason game though is it?

How about 6 seasons? 411 games.


61 goals 149 points in 6 seasons 411 games.
it's not a lot for a guy who says he deserves top six money and ice.

Last year was a break out season of sorts for him offensively. Projected to 82 games, he would have had about 25 goals and 65 points, which are solid numbers for a second liner. However, last year was kind of an outlier considering we only played the same Canadian-based teams all season long. I don't know if he could repeat that. What I do know is that he's been a decent scoring threat on the third line throughout most of his career, and we need those kind of players as well.

 

[Skidooboy]

Last year was a break out season of sorts for him offensively. Projected to 82 games, he would have had about 25 goals and 65 points, which are solid numbers for a second liner. However, last year was kind of an outlier considering we only played the same Canadian-based teams all season long. I don't know if he could repeat that. What I do know is that he's been a decent scoring threat on the third line throughout most of his career, and we need those kind of players as well.

I guess we measure success differently. with the trust, ice time, situations and line-mates he's had...I'm surprised how little he scores. hence..not a top six guy.

if he's on a 3rd line with two offensive guys sure I guess....but I'd rather that was a skill line that can roll scoring and a 4th line as the shutdown unit.

As for Copp? I see him i the role he's suited for. bottom 6 shutdown and PK. Nowhere near a healthy top 6 slot, and as far away from PP unit as I can get him.

 

[GaryPoppins]

Maybe giving Cole Perfetti a shot as a winger on the second line with some actual offensively talented linemates would be an even better option. Who cares if he is young. He wouldn't be the first 19 year-old to crack an NHL lineup.

I think he is going to get a shot with some legit NHLers next game

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

here's the point. i don't want him to be Special" just an average scorer for a top six NHL player.


Copp only fulfills half the duty of a top six player. I'm not saying he has to be a top scorer. And yeah we need someone who can help be responsible on all the lines.... but he needs to be able to kick in the freebies his line-mates hand him......but the guy has hands of stone and those chances remain unburied, which means a lot of games are lost that should be tied or won.


you can point to the one covid shortened crazy in division only weird season and call that evidence? I guess...


But outside of that 1 crazy year Copp has seen a lot of ice time and a lot of trust from this organization and breaking 15 goals ONCE in 6 years..... sorry . NOT TOP SIX NUMBERS.

I didn't say last season was evidence. I said it was not in the future. And of course he has not produced top 6 numbers. No one does that playing on a 3rd line tasked with checking the oppositions best. No one. That 1 year that was not evidence he produced at a top 6 rate - playing in the top 6.

This narrative that he has stone hands is BS. He doesn't have the greatest hands in the business. He doesn't have to. He has a career sh% of 11.1%. Blake Wheeler has a career sh% of 10.8. Who has the hands of stone? Right now he is in the top 6 on a 'show me' basis. Give the experiment a little time to play out before evaluating the results.

 

[Mud Turtle]

I think he is going to get a shot with some legit NHLers next game

I hope you’re right. A guy with the skill level he has should be evaluated in the types of situations that you expect to use him in the future.

 

[Whileee]

I hope you’re right. A guy with the skill level he has should be evaluated in the types of situations that you expect to use him in the future.

They are evaluating him every day, in hours of practices / drills / scrimmages. We mainly see them for 15 shifts or so in an exhibition game, but coaches have way basis for evaluating young players.

I have no problem with Perfetti going to the AHL and playing a ton to round out his game further.

 

[Teemusalami204]

Lots of great talks


For me copp should be no where near the top 6. He will drag his line mates points totals down.

we need pld to step it up bigtime , having copp on his line not finishing all year isn’t going to help

 

[surixon]

They are evaluating him every day, in hours of practices / drills / scrimmages. We mainly see them for 15 shifts or so in an exhibition game, but coaches have way basis for evaluating young players.

I have no problem with Perfetti going to the AHL and playing a ton to round out his game further.

They haven't given him good linemates but they have been routinely matching him against Dubois and his line in camp to really give him a crash course against high end NHL caliber players. So the coaching staff is pushing him and testing him.

He likely could play now in the NHL but there isn't a spot for him as Moe isn't going to bump a vet down the lineup for him and he won't be used on the fourth line.

I think he is easily a full time player next year. The strides he's made in his skating and strength in one summer is pretty significant, imagine how he looks after another summer of strength and skating work.

 

[lanky]

We are lucky to have the best top 5 forward group in the league. We can whine about that 6th forward not being good enough, or we can cheer him on and hope everything clicks.

Lots of great talks


For me copp should be no where near the top 6. He will drag his line mates points totals down.

we need pld to step it up bigtime , having copp on his line not finishing all year isn’t going to help

 

[WolfHouse]

Look I like Copp. but he isn't a top 6 guy. he just isn't.

it's not 1 preseason game though is it?

How about 6 seasons? 411 games.


61 goals 149 points in 6 seasons 411 games.
it's not a lot for a guy who says he deserves top six money and ice.

If you look at wheelers numbers they were not top six for his first six seasons... then he hit his stride at 27...

development is not as linear as it’s made out to be

copps numbers have been steadily increasing year after year - I don’t expect them to suddenly drop when he finally gets consistent time in the top six

 

[surixon]

If you look at wheelers numbers they were not top six for his first six seasons... then he hit his stride at 27...

development is not as linear as it’s made out to be

copps numbers have been steadily increasing year after year - I don’t expect them to suddenly drop when he finally gets consistent time in the top six

Blake Wheeler was a 60 point forward his fourth season which is borderline first line. He stayed that way for a few years before jumping into the high end first line rate.

Copp played well last year but he played a decent amount in the top 6 and the pp the year before and posted very poor results. I'm not expecting a year like last year nor the year prior. I think 40-45 points while doing some of the heavier lifting on the boards and in the dzone are reasonable expectations if he plays most of the year in the top 6.

 

[Teemusalami204]

Blake Wheeler was a 60 point forward his fourth season which is borderline first line. He stayed that way for a few years before jumping into the high end first line rate.

Copp played well last year but he played a decent amount in the top 6 and the pp the year before and posted very poor results. I'm not expecting a year like last year nor the year prior. I think 40-45 points while doing some of the heavier lifting on the boards and in the dzone are reasonable expectations if he plays most of the year in the top 6.

As Soon as wheeler switched from little to sheif his points went significantly up.

Having a lesser skilled player on a line almost always hurts the point totals of the other two players.

I have the same worries for copp on the 2nd line for example

 

[surixon]

As Soon as wheeler switched from little to sheif his points went significantly up.

Having a lesser skilled player on a line almost always hurts the point totals of the other two players.

I have the same worries for copp on the 2nd line for example

They jumped again when we got all that talent for our PP.

I worry about the finish for line 2. I think they will tilt the ice and have their way in the offensive end but I think they need a pure triggerman on the line.

I expect Ehlers and Dubois to be in the 25 to 30 goal range but I question how much we will get from Copp/Stastny.

At the same time I don't expect they will give up much either.

I'd almost rather move Conner down and Copp up. Conner can finish the chances created by PLD and Ehlerd. Copp can do the defensive lifting and board work while Mark scores and Blake makes plays.

 

[Teemusalami204]

They jumped again when we got all that talent for our PP.

I worry about the finish for line 2. I think they will tilt the ice and have their way in the offensive end but I think they need a pure triggerman on the line.

I expect Ehlers and Dubois to be in the 25 to 30 goal range but I question how much we will get from Copp/Stastny.

At the same time I don't expect they will give up much either.

I'd almost rather move Conner down and Copp up. Conner can finish the chances created by PLD and Ehlerd. Copp can do the defensive lifting and board work while Mark scores and Blake makes plays.

I have been very hard on nik in the past but he’s been finishing and scoring bigtime goals since the bubble imo.

Assuming this line stays together for the majority of the season copp is the biggest factor.

30 point pace and copp holds ehlers and pld back

50 point pace ehlers has a shot at 40 goals and pld will kill it as well.

I also agree with moving connor there as well.

 

[surixon]

I have been very hard on nik in the past but he’s been finishing and scoring bigtime goals since the bubble imo.

Assuming this line stays together for the majority of the season copp is the biggest factor.

30 point pace and copp holds ehlers and pld back

50 point pace ehlers has a shot at 40 goals and pld will kill it as well.

I also agree with moving connor there as well.

Ehelrs generally shoots a lot and from everywhere which is why he's a volume shot scorer. He's not as selective as Conner and Scheifele which makes judging his shot against those two difficult.

 

[jetsforever]

I agree totally with this. Copp and Lowry together may be one of the best 3rd liners in the league so why mess with success?

That said Copp has always stated he believes he can play higher in the line up. I wonder if he made a verbal deal with Chevy and Moe that if he signs for a one year contract at the AAV he did that the Jets would give Copp a serious look on the top 6.

Part of me wants to keep Copp happy so he'll stay, potentially with some top-6 time, but the other part doesn't want him in the top-6 at all (he's an awesome 3rd-liner though).