Post-Game Talk: Roller coaster ride continues: Malkin-less Pens beat Rangers 5-3

[WayneSid9987]

Just an fyi, kessels NTC went away when he was traded. NTCs dont follow a player regardless if he waived or not.

Is that true?
I read the opposite on here earlier in the week, i think.

Or is it one of those where the recieving team can continue to recognize the NTC or not?

 

[Shady Machine]

We're never patient with any other player but now we have to be with kessel because........?

Because we don't really have a choice.

 

[plaidchuck]

Is that true?
I read the opposite on here earlier in the week, i think.

Or is it one of those where the recieving team can continue to recognize the NTC or not?

By the letter of the new CBA it's true. Only a NMC will follow a traded player, not a NTC.

 

[WayneSid9987]

By the letter of the new CBA it's true. Only a NMC will follow a traded player, not a NTC.

Well, that certainly changes things, if true.
Good to know.

 

[Nakawick]

LOL Kessel played 13:57. Sullivan isn't a fan

Kessel also lost his spot on PP1,....the game after Geno got hurt. Kunitz fought Kreider. Something has been said.

Also,..I am OK switching Maatta and Dumo if Maatta has another game like today. He relies on positioning and smarts, but when that if off he doesn't have the speed to recover.

 

[Will Hunting]

Fantastic game by the Pens, it was fun to watch. WBS kids, Crosby, Letang and Fleury are gonna be extremely important down the stretch for us. I believe that Malkin can come back for the R1 pf the playoffs, things like that can happen in the playoffs. I still have faith in our season, especially if we manage to keep on that 1st wildcard spot.

Our 2 main problems right now are Kessel and Kunitz. Those two idiots absolutely suck and need to be put in one line, presumably with Bonino. Hagelin replaces Kunitz on the 1st line and Kunitz-Bonino-Kessel should serve as our 4th line. WBS kids are just hungrier and better at this point. Game by game, they are outplaying 2 lazy players that Kunitz and Kessel are. I can´t stand them. Thank god that Sully recognizes Kessel and plays him under 14 minutes of IT now.

 

[Nakawick]

Well, that certainly changes things, if true.
Good to know.

Maybe Arizona will need a high priced player with Doan leaving and Mike Smith's contract up in a couple years.

 

[billybudd]

On Kessel...

He's easily moveable for me if Beau stays healthy

So let's put Kessel's "struggles" in perspective. He's got 20 goals and 45 points. Kessel's produced more offense in about 2/3 of a bad year than Bennett has in his entire career (which is roughly twice as many games as Kessel has played in a Penguin uniform). You're more than cutting your offense in half with this move and that's if Kessel never rebounds. It also doesn't factor in that we're comparing a guy who never misses a game with a guy who never plays a game.

For Sprong's part, he's a "looks good but who knows what he is at this point" type guy. NHL teams can't just say, "well, this dude's a nailed on 50 point guy at 19." Maybe he is, maybe he isn't, but I'd like to know one way or another before we talk about cutting Kessel loose.

 

[plaidchuck]

Yeah deserved or not, Fleury will never get a fair shake, nor will he sniff any hardware based on his reputation. Pretty sad really considering Price is just as much of a playoff choker maybe even more so recently.

 

[Will Hunting]

Schultz is fine. I would definitely play Pouliot now though. He looked excellent recently, like he was close to breaking through. I would seriously think about playing Pouliot instead of Maatta now. Maatta needs a break, wake up call, or something. Brutal game by him today.

 

[vodeni]

Has he been that the last two seasons? Well, last year he was tied for 9th in points among right wings (technically 10th because Wheeler had one more goal), and that was considered a down year for him. So if a player's down-year still has him in the top-10 at his position, I'd say that yes, he's one of the best RWs in the game.

But you didn't answer my question.

Of course we'd all like to see Phil have an extra gear and/or finish. It doesn't change the fact that moving him after a year is incredibly poor asset management.

part of this was inability of coaches and management to find the best line and best position for him. especially PP, just because you are a RH shot that does not mean you have to force him on that left wall. make something creative, have him QB the pp so he can sneak in between the dots or come on the right hand side for a wrister. That could have given him much needed confidence. But the problem I have with this play is beacuse he is not doing well in what he is suppose to do the best:
1. Watch him closely when the opportunity arises for him to rush or beat the lonely defender on his side. Every friggin time he gets jammed on the wall when trying to sneak by, every time, just watch. he can't fly by anyone like Hags does, or sheary or rust...that was something I thought would be his bread and butter
2. when he does not have a defender to stood him up against the wall and he has a chance to skaet in and release his trademark wrister, it has beed a chest snipe fest all season long, or miss, he just seems not be able to get that puck over the glove or the blocker.
3. How many times geno or someone else fed him point blank all he need to do is to elevate the puck, but most of the time he just put it right into the pad of the extended goalie

so that is what bothers me with him. I can live without him hustling or winning battles on the wall, but when it comes to these situation than I expect him to deliver for the money he gets paid.

I really hope that this is a confidence thing, but he had quite a few two goal games after he falls back in mediocrity....

 

[IcedCapp]

Plotnikov puts up a hatty for sure.

i thought we were supposed to stop bringing Plotnikov up?

I can never keep up with these things

 

[plaidchuck]

So let's put Kessel's "struggles" in perspective. He's got 20 goals and 45 points. Kessel's produced more offense in about 2/3 of a bad year than Bennett has in his entire career (which is roughly twice as many games as Kessel has played in a Penguin uniform). You're more than cutting your offense in half with this move and that's if Kessel never rebounds. It also doesn't factor in that we're comparing a guy who never misses a game with a guy who never plays a game.

For Sprong's part, he's a "looks good but who knows what he is at this point" type guy. NHL teams can't just say, "well, this dude's a nailed on 50 point guy at 19." Maybe he is, maybe he isn't, but I'd like to know one way or another before we talk about cutting Kessel loose.

For comparisons sake though, Neal is also a 50 point guy on a offensive wasteland of a team.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

i thought we were supposed to stop bringing Plotnikov up?

I can never keep up with these things

No, you can talk about Plotnikov as long as you don't talk about his time with the Pens.

 

[IcedCapp]

No, you can talk about Plotnikov as long as you don't talk about his time with the Pens.

or as long as you're insulting him

 

[Penguinator]

i thought we were supposed to stop bringing Plotnikov up?

I can never keep up with these things

The power of Iron-i-city, gotta keep up with it.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

or as long as you're insulting him

Eh, keeping track is too much work. I've already failed to remember where the C is.


Did Plotnikov steal the C when it was in limbo?

 

[Shady Machine]

Kessel also lost his spot on PP1,....the game after Geno got hurt. Kunitz fought Kreider. Something has been said.

Also,..I am OK switching Maatta and Dumo if Maatta has another game like today. He relies on positioning and smarts, but when that if off he doesn't have the speed to recover.

How does moving Maatta off of Letangs pairing help Maatta? It just makes the 2nd pairing worse. Letang is the right guy to insulate Maattas skating.

 

[Waffle Fries]

Phil Kessel, among right wings since 2008-09:

2008-09: (last year with Boston, and break-out season)
Goals - 36, 4th among RWs
Points - 60, 20th among RWs

2009-10: (first year with Leafs)
Goals - 30, T-8th among RWs
Points - 55, 20th among RWs

2010-11:
Goals - 32, 5th among RWs
Points - 64, 8th among RWs

2011-12:
Goals - 37, T-3rd among RWs
Points - 82, 2nd among RWs

2012: (Lockout year)
Goals - 20, 4th among RWs
Points - 52, 3rd among RWs

2013-14:
Goals - 37, 2nd among RWs
Points - 80, 2nd among RWs

2014-15:
Goals - 25, 13th among RWs
Points - 61, T-9th among RWs

2008-09 - 2014-15: (Total of 516 Games)
Goals - 217, 2nd among RWs
Points - 454, 4th among RWs

2015-16: (Total of 68 Games)
Goals - 20, 20th among RWs
Points - 45, 16th among RWs

Which sample size holds more weight?

And for more perspective, based on Kessel's PPG pace with Johnston and with Sullivan, he'd have 5 more points over 68 games if Sullivan had coached all of them, which still puts him 11th among RWs, with one less game played and one less point than #10 Bobby Ryan.

 

[Will Hunting]

Phil the Thrill, one emptynetter in his last 10 games. Such a gifted goal scorer he is, yeah. He was awful today, absolutely awful. He deserves to play with Kunitz now.

Hag-Sid-Horn as our 1st line, then Fehr and Cullen as our next 2 centers, splitting the roles and icetimes, centering the WBS kids like Rust, Sheary, Wilson, Simon, Kuhn.

Kunitz-Bonino-Kessel getting limited ice time, being played as a 4th line in a sheltered role.

That´s how it is now. Get rid of the whole trio in the offseason, Kunitz, Bonino and Kessel, we don´t need players like that.

 

[Shady Machine]

For comparisons sake though, Neal is also a 50 point guy on a offensive wasteland of a team.

What does this mean?

 

[Speaking Moistly]

How does moving Maatta off of Letangs pairing help Maatta? It just makes the 2nd pairing worse. Letang is the right guy to insulate Maattas skating.

fwiw, I liked MD the few games we saw it. Breaking up DD doesn't seem like the best idea right now though and ML hasn't struggled enough to make me think it needs to happen.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Since when is Nashville an "offensive wasteland of a team"? That's as wrong as saying that the Devils are still a trap team.

 

[Shady Machine]

Phil the Thrill, one emptynetter in his last 10 games. Such a gifted goal scorer he is, yeah. He was awful today, absolutely awful. He deserves to play with Kunitz now.

Hag-Sid-Horn as our 1st line, then Fehr and Cullen as our next 2 centers, splitting the roles and icetimes, centering the WBS kids like Rust, Sheary, Wilson, Simon, Kuhn.

Kunitz-Bonino-Kessel getting limited ice time, being played as a 4th line in a sheltered role.

That´s how it is now. Get rid of the whole trio in the offseason, Kunitz, Bonino and Kessel, we don´t need players like that.

Haha you are always one for the extremes.

 

[MrBrightside]

A complete list of all 2015 draft picks who have played in the NHL:

Connor McDavid (#1 pick)
Jack Eichel (#2)
Noah Hanifin (#5)
Mikko Rantanen (#10)
Daniel Sprong (#46)
Dominik Simon (#137)